Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #120 on: February 22, 2020, 08:01:13 PM »
No the moon always rises in the west and sets in the east...
This is shocking news.

When did this start happening?

Last full moon, the doggone thing rose directly in the east.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

Offline Smarts

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #121 on: February 22, 2020, 08:15:47 PM »
The moon in fact does pass over stars. It's just that we never notice because they aren't popularlly known constalations.

Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #122 on: February 22, 2020, 10:38:51 PM »
The movement of the shadow is because of the Earths spin.  Not because the moon is traveling.

It's because of both.

Quote
If I’m on earth looking east it takes Earth 6 hours to turn 90 degrees to the north. If the moon is east of earth it takes 7 days to get to the same north of earth. So the earth spins 28x’s faster than that is what the moon is going around earth.  Not speed wise but going from north to west to south to east.

You're confusing angular and linear speed, the reason for the shadow moving in the direction it does is explained in that other thread.
It's a bit counter-intuitive and takes some thought but the explanation is there.

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And go outside at mid-day on a sunny day and put your hand a foot above the ground and see how many shadows you have and if the shadow is 30x’s smaller than your hand. Like on a eclipse. Give you a hint. It’s not.

No, it's not. But the moon isn't a foot away. The other video explains this. The nature of the shadow depends on the distance of the light source and the object casting the shadow.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 08:38:19 AM by AllAroundTheWorld »
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2020, 12:49:17 AM »
The moon in fact does pass over stars. It's just that we never notice because they aren't popularlly known constalations.
The moon should pass in between Earth and stars 10-100’s times a night.  But the fact is, it doesn’t. I’ve never seen it happen not one time nor have I ever talked to anyone that has seen it happen.
I think the answer is more simple than what everyone tries to make it be.  It’s something like with what proponent had said.


And this is how a shadow works when there only 1 light source and no walls to reflect light.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2020, 01:04:12 AM »
I’ve never seen it happen not one time nor have I ever talked to anyone that has seen it happen.

... yet within a few minutes of stating this earlier, you were shown a couple of videos where not only did others actually see this, but they videoed it too.

Without some indication of how, when, where, and how long you observed, your statement of "I've never seen" lacks basis.

Without some indication of how many you have spoken to, your statement of "ever talked to" lacks substance.
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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2020, 02:02:31 AM »
Without having to go get my old Android phone’s micro SD and transfer pictures to my new iPhone.  I’ll try this picture that’s available on the web from NASA.
The tots eclipse that goes through Greenland and Canada. It seems to go in one direction then turns around and starts going in the opposite direction. How is this possible.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2020, 09:58:12 AM »
The tots eclipse that goes through Greenland and Canada. It seems to go in one direction then turns around and starts going in the opposite direction. How is this possible.

Take a desktop or tabletop globe, find a ball to act as a model Moon, determine the date, time etc. of the eclipse, and model it in 3D.

Then you'll find out how. Or not.



You might want to look at the first google result from a simple search of "greenland canada total eclipse changes direction", for that seems to be the one referred to (EDIT; no, it's a few years later than this one - same principle seems to apply,though);

https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2021-june-10

It has visualisations for the path both on projected maps and 3D globes.

EDIT - this one is the one in Jay's graphic -   https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2044-august-23
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 10:03:28 AM by Tumeni »
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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2020, 10:07:29 AM »
And this is how a shadow works when there only 1 light source and no walls to reflect light.
I've no idea how to assess that image. It's impossible to assess the scale of the balloon and the shadow of it, and a cloud is not a flat surface which also makes it impossible to assess how the shadow will be cast onto it.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2020, 12:33:04 PM »
Take a desktop or tabletop globe, find a ball to act as a model Moon, determine the date, time etc. of the eclipse, and model it in 3D.

As an added bonus, take that same globe, look at the eclipses described around the equatorial regions, and take a string, length of wool, or similar, and stretch it over the globe in the shortest path between the start and end points on your graphic. Does that line correspond to the locations under the curved path in your (projection) graphic?
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #129 on: February 24, 2020, 07:05:10 PM »
So a total eclipses shadow does go from East to West

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2020, 07:14:06 PM »
So a total eclipses shadow does go from East to West

For part of this one's path, yes. But not for the 2017 one.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #131 on: February 24, 2020, 08:02:58 PM »
Everyone does realise that the balloon shadow in the photo quoted above is the shadow of the photographer's balloon, not the one in the photo ... ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hotair2112/albums/72057594137386413
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #132 on: February 24, 2020, 10:39:53 PM »
Everyone does realise that the balloon shadow in the photo quoted above is the shadow of the photographer's balloon, not the one in the photo ... ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hotair2112/albums/72057594137386413
Ha. I did not realise that! But yes, the caption of the picture makes that clear.

Good demonstration here, God along knows why he's wearing that hat though

If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #133 on: February 25, 2020, 03:17:59 AM »
Everyone does realise that the balloon shadow in the photo quoted above is the shadow of the photographer's balloon, not the one in the photo ... ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hotair2112/albums/72057594137386413
Ha. I did not realise that! But yes, the caption of the picture makes that clear.

Good demonstration here, God along knows why he's wearing that hat though



In that video there is about 4 different shades of light on the white screen. He starts off with the globe close to the screen(and looks like only one shade), but not in the center. But then moves the globe up to the center of the screen where theres a different shade of light on the screen. See how bright the center is.  That’s a different light source than the rest of the screen. And it looks like it becomes distorted.

Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #134 on: February 25, 2020, 03:19:53 AM »
You can easily just go outside on a sunny day around midday and stick your hand out. It will make a excellent shadow.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #135 on: February 25, 2020, 07:49:39 AM »
You can easily just go outside on a sunny day around midday and stick your hand out. It will make a excellent shadow.

Yes, but it won't be moving across the face of the Earth like the Moon's shadow would, so it's not very instructive in this context.
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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #136 on: February 25, 2020, 09:10:13 AM »
In that video there is about 4 different shades of light on the white screen. He starts off with the globe close to the screen(and looks like only one shade), but not in the center. But then moves the globe up to the center of the screen where theres a different shade of light on the screen. See how bright the center is.  That’s a different light source than the rest of the screen. And it looks like it becomes distorted.
You are literally describing what he is demonstrating.
With a point light source the shadow will always be as big if not bigger than the object casting the shadow.
With an extended light source - like the sun - if the object which the shadow is cast of is far from the surface it's casting the shadow on to then you get a small umbra (in a solar eclipse that's the total eclipse) and a larger more diffuse penumbra (partial eclipse).
The video demonstrates this.

Obviously the size of the umbra and penumbra depends on the relative distances of the light source, object and surface the shadow is cast onto..
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #137 on: February 25, 2020, 08:15:09 PM »
In that video there is about 4 different shades of light on the white screen. He starts off with the globe close to the screen(and looks like only one shade), but not in the center. But then moves the globe up to the center of the screen where theres a different shade of light on the screen. See how bright the center is.  That’s a different light source than the rest of the screen. And it looks like it becomes distorted.
You are literally describing what he is demonstrating.
With a point light source the shadow will always be as big if not bigger than the object casting the shadow.
With an extended light source - like the sun - if the object which the shadow is cast of is far from the surface it's casting the shadow on to then you get a small umbra (in a solar eclipse that's the total eclipse) and a larger more diffuse penumbra (partial eclipse).
The video demonstrates this.

Obviously the size of the umbra and penumbra depends on the relative distances of the light source, object and surface the shadow is cast onto..

The moon is about 400 times smaller than the Sun. But is also 400 times closer than the Sun.  Which makes them about the same size if looking from Earth which creates a total eclipse. If the Sun was any bigger it could not create a total eclipse.  That being said, since the Sun is the only light source and the moon will cover the entire Sun looking from Earth, there should only be 1 shadow. Not different shadows. And it should be bigger than the size of the moon. So that means it’s he Moon has to be smaller than 70 miles.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #138 on: February 25, 2020, 10:17:30 PM »
there should only be 1 shadow. Not different shadows.

Who says there are/were "different shadows"? Who or what are you disputing?
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #139 on: February 26, 2020, 03:19:16 AM »
there should only be 1 shadow. Not different shadows.

Who says there are/were "different shadows"? Who or what are you disputing?
Two different shades of shadow.  Dark in the middle and lighter on the outside of the shadow. like the video. But going off that logic, I can pull a ball away from the screen until I have the 2 different shades in its shadow like the video. Then put another ball equal size closer to the screen in the same path and you would be able to see that shadow inside the other shadow because it would make the original balls shadow(which shadow has a small dark center and lighter outside)  all one dark shadow the same size as the objects size.  I don’t think it works like that. I don’t think you can have 2 objects the same size all lined up in a row with one light source and you would be able to see the furthest objects shadow.  Because the first object would absorb all its light. Light can’t pass through a opaque object like the moon. So how can light go through the moon to hit the earths surface. If it’s a opaque object like the moon, light can only be absorbed or reflected. Can’t go through the object and hit the next object that’s behind it. And that’s what your implying with the video and pictures.