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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2019, 03:01:13 AM »
Capitalism is when the top 1% convince the other 99% to give the top 1% their wealth so they can be free.

The difference in capitalism is that the 99% decides who gets rich. No one is being forced to buy anything from Amazon or Apple or any corporation made rich by capitalism. Stop playing yourself I guess.
R.I.P. To my boy 4Chainz. You trill to da end.
1992-2019

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2019, 03:52:46 AM »
Capitalism is when the top 1% convince the other 99% to give the top 1% their wealth so they can be free.

Look I can make a pithy generalization too!

Capitalism is what allows the middle class to thrive and the only economic system which has resulted in the gulf between the uber wealthy and the poor to narrow significantly. Systems like socialism thrive on taxing that same middle class out of their wealth and making sure generational wealth disappears by taxing inheritance. The result is that the rich people stay rich, the middle class disappears and the amount of working class enlarges. Then the poor stay poor because the government taxes them out of their income then gives it back to them, telling them they should be grateful for the exchange.

Socialism is the equivalent of taking grades from people who made B's and giving them to people who made D's, then claiming you've made the entire class smarter.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 03:55:01 AM by Rushy »

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2019, 01:59:50 PM »
I would happily agree that capitalism has contributed to the fabulous wealth of western nations.  I would caution against giving 100% of the credit to capitalism, but that's a general thing, I doubt you are stupid enough to think that.  Socialism has also contributed something to the prosperity of the West.  I don't believe there is a one-size-fits-all system that will lead to utopia.  I also don't think capitalism and socialism need to be at odds with one another.  Norway seems to have taken a decent crack at blending them.

Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2019, 12:42:37 PM »
I would happily agree that capitalism has contributed to the fabulous wealth of western nations.  I would caution against giving 100% of the credit to capitalism, but that's a general thing, I doubt you are stupid enough to think that.  Socialism has also contributed something to the prosperity of the West.  I don't believe there is a one-size-fits-all system that will lead to utopia.  I also don't think capitalism and socialism need to be at odds with one another.  Norway seems to have taken a decent crack at blending them.
Norway is predominantly homogeneous in its population and is nowhere near the size and population of the US.
I didn't say (conversion of) thermal energy wasn't involved at all.
A rocket does not create thrust by converting thermal energy.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2019, 02:28:43 PM »
I would happily agree that capitalism has contributed to the fabulous wealth of western nations.  I would caution against giving 100% of the credit to capitalism, but that's a general thing, I doubt you are stupid enough to think that.  Socialism has also contributed something to the prosperity of the West.  I don't believe there is a one-size-fits-all system that will lead to utopia.  I also don't think capitalism and socialism need to be at odds with one another.  Norway seems to have taken a decent crack at blending them.
Norway is predominantly homogeneous in its population and is nowhere near the size and population of the US.
Norway also has an enormous amount of North Sea oil.

They put the wealth this generates, into a fund.
https://www.nbim.no/en/the-fund/market-value/

^So converted that is savings of $1.1Trillion. Trillion with a T.

That is Norway's piggy bank. That's the money they have left over after they paid for everything they wanted. Comparing the US to Norway is like comparing a regular high school kid to a kid with a Trust Fund.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 02:32:50 PM by Baby Thork »
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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2019, 05:46:39 PM »
Canada also successfully combines elements of socialism and capitalism and has a lower GDP per capita than the US.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2019, 06:19:04 PM »
Canada is a dumpster fire right now.

Like every other leader with even remotely socialist leanings, Trudeau's spending other people's money faster than they can earn it.
https://torontosun.com/2017/01/04/trudeau-will-bury-us-in-debt/wcm/f848772a-416a-46d7-b844-b2545e9969ca
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 06:20:52 PM by Baby Thork »
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Offline junker

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2019, 07:00:09 PM »
ITT:  Lots of people conflating redistribution of wealth with socialism when it actually has nothing to do with socialism, while capitalism has significantly higher wealth redistribution.

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2019, 10:25:11 PM »
Canada is a dumpster fire right now.

Like every other leader with even remotely socialist leanings, Trudeau's spending other people's money faster than they can earn it.
https://torontosun.com/2017/01/04/trudeau-will-bury-us-in-debt/wcm/f848772a-416a-46d7-b844-b2545e9969ca

Harper manufactured surpluses by selling off crown assets. It’s the definition of sacrificing the future for today. Don’t think you know something because you found a link.

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2019, 10:35:24 PM »
Canada is a dumpster fire right now.

Like every other leader with even remotely socialist leanings, Trudeau's spending other people's money faster than they can earn it.
https://torontosun.com/2017/01/04/trudeau-will-bury-us-in-debt/wcm/f848772a-416a-46d7-b844-b2545e9969ca

Harper manufactured surpluses by selling off crown assets. It’s the definition of sacrificing the future for today. Don’t think you know something because you found a link.

At least I always provide a link. You assert you know things and never back anything up. It is the height of arrogance as though your opinion is lore.
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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2019, 11:13:42 PM »
Canada is a dumpster fire right now.

Like every other leader with even remotely socialist leanings, Trudeau's spending other people's money faster than they can earn it.
https://torontosun.com/2017/01/04/trudeau-will-bury-us-in-debt/wcm/f848772a-416a-46d7-b844-b2545e9969ca

Harper manufactured surpluses by selling off crown assets. It’s the definition of sacrificing the future for today. Don’t think you know something because you found a link.

At least I always provide a link. You assert you know things and never back anything up. It is the height of arrogance as though your opinion is lore.

You won’t be applauded for providing bad information no matter how much you pretend to be offended.

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2019, 11:16:32 PM »
Canada is a dumpster fire right now.

Like every other leader with even remotely socialist leanings, Trudeau's spending other people's money faster than they can earn it.
https://torontosun.com/2017/01/04/trudeau-will-bury-us-in-debt/wcm/f848772a-416a-46d7-b844-b2545e9969ca

Harper manufactured surpluses by selling off crown assets. It’s the definition of sacrificing the future for today. Don’t think you know something because you found a link.

At least I always provide a link. You assert you know things and never back anything up. It is the height of arrogance as though your opinion is lore.

You won’t be applauded for providing bad information no matter how much you pretend to be offended.
And I just wanted to remind you that every time you are rude to me on this site, I'm gonna go tell you to fuck yourself. So order restored.
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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2019, 11:22:41 PM »
And I just wanted to remind you that every time you are rude to me on this site, I'm gonna go tell you to fuck yourself. So order restored.
If you do I won’t even pretend to be offended. Anyway, do you have anything else to add to the conversation or can I expect a parade of “go fuck yourself” from now on?

We were discussing blending socialism and capitalism.

Junker was saying it has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth and I would love to hear more from him on that. Or perhaps even a credible link with information. Thork’s need not apply.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2019, 11:26:14 PM »
And I just wanted to remind you that every time you are rude to me on this site, I'm gonna go tell you to fuck yourself. So order restored.
If you do I won’t even pretend to be offended. Anyway, do you have anything else to add to the conversation or can I expect a parade of “go fuck yourself” from now on?

We were discussing blending socialism and capitalism.

Junker was saying it has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth and I would love to hear more from him on that. Or perhaps even a credible link with information. Thork’s need not apply.
We're done. Manners cost nothing. If you don't respect my thoughts, there is no point in sharing them with you.
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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2019, 11:27:06 PM »
And I just wanted to remind you that every time you are rude to me on this site, I'm gonna go tell you to fuck yourself. So order restored.
If you do I won’t even pretend to be offended. Anyway, do you have anything else to add to the conversation or can I expect a parade of “go fuck yourself” from now on?

We were discussing blending socialism and capitalism.

Junker was saying it has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth and I would love to hear more from him on that. Or perhaps even a credible link with information. Thork’s need not apply.
We're done. Manners cost nothing. If you don't respect my thoughts, there is no point in sharing them with you.

I was asking for Junker’s thoughts not yours.

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Offline junker

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2019, 12:05:19 AM »
Junker was saying it has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth and I would love to hear more from him on that. Or perhaps even a credible link with information. Thork’s need not apply.

Sure thing. At the end of the day, the key tenet of socialism is that the workers own the means of production (this can be achieved in a number of ways, not all "good"). There is nothing about wealth redistribution that is uniquely tied to socialism or even communism. A quick and dirty explanation can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistribution_of_income_and_wealth#Role_in_economic_systems

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2019, 01:02:42 AM »
Isn’t owning the means of production is a way to redistribute wealth since the means of production are a way of generating wealth? Or are you drawing a distinction between generation of and redistribution of wealth?

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2019, 02:51:40 AM »
Isn’t owning the means of production is a way to redistribute wealth since the means of production are a way of generating wealth? Or are you drawing a distinction between generation of and redistribution of wealth?

Functionally, yes, but not by the "numbers," so yes I am drawing a distinction. You aren't redistributing wealth since it doesn't (see: shouldn't) be controlled by one person (or a group of wealthy people). Obviously a socialist overthrow of capitalism would naturally result in a massive redistribution of wealth initially.  It becomes a much more in-depth discussion as we will move into private property vs. personal property which I don't think is appropriate for Thonk's teen angst thread. In modern society, redistribution of wealth is significantly larger in capitalist economies which is really the main point. You can't have a functional discussion about socialism (whether for or against) if you aren't aware of the basics which is all I was really trying to point out. I have brought up socialism before, but no one really wants to have an honest discussion about it because no one really gives a shit, which is fine.

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2019, 03:30:18 AM »
No one said one system is redistributing wealth and the other is not, that's a complete straw man and a poor reading of the thread. Economic systems, at their core, are arguments on how wealth should be distributed, not whether or not it is. To argue the latter rather than the former is pure nonsense.

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Re: Thork crows for a bit
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2019, 04:32:59 AM »
No one said one system is redistributing wealth and the other is not, that's a complete straw man and a poor reading of the thread.
I am aware, which is why I never made that claim. The only strawman so far is you arguing against something no one has claimed, which is a very poor reading of the thread.

Economic systems, at their core, are arguments on how wealth should be distributed, not whether or not it is. To argue the latter rather than the former is pure nonsense.
Agreed. It seems you are suggesting someone other than you has mentioned the latter. Surely that cannot be the case since it is nonsense, as you mentioned.