ISS Open For Business
« on: June 07, 2019, 03:11:09 PM »
Interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48560874

Quote
Nasa is to allow tourists to visit the International Space Station from 2020.
The US space agency said it would open the orbiting station to tourism and other business ventures.
There will be up to two short private astronaut missions per year, said Robyn Gatens, the deputy director of the ISS.

I imagine it'll cost millions so out of the reach of the average Joe, but maybe some crowd-funding effort could be made in the FE Community, it's the ultimate chance for one of you to make personal observations.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 08:48:08 PM »
It wouldn't make any difference. That's not some kind of criticism of flat Earthers. That's just being realistic. Right now, there are 6 human beings in space. That's right now. There have been 536 people who have gone to space. Think about it seriously. What if that 6 became 8? Would that make any difference? What if that 536 turned into 5360? Do you really think that would suddenly change everyone's mind?

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 11:15:45 PM »
Do you really think that would suddenly change everyone's mind?
What if the FE community all pooled together and sent up someone "trustworthy"? Yeah, I don't think this is super realistic, but let's imagine for a bit. Let's say that there was some FE paragon that went up there and relayed their experiences back to the rest of us. Maybe that could change some minds?
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 02:53:18 AM »
Do you really think that would suddenly change everyone's mind?
What if the FE community all pooled together and sent up someone "trustworthy"? Yeah, I don't think this is super realistic, but let's imagine for a bit. Let's say that there was some FE paragon that went up there and relayed their experiences back to the rest of us. Maybe that could change some minds?
I would back that and pledge some money, but I have no illusions that it would change anything.
AFAIK, there is no person qualified to be this FE paragon. There's a lot of mistrust among the different sorts of FEs.
I've been seeing Mark Sargent's name mentioned here, but I'm quite confident that he's a fraud. Obviously others will disagree, but I just wanted to drop that in there for everyone to think about.

Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2019, 09:43:38 AM »
What if the FE community all pooled together and sent up someone "trustworthy"?

Their movement is based on distrust and there's not a single or at least an accepted main stream flat earth. The opposite happens, FEs call "controlled opposition" other FEs. Imo what you're saying could never happen.
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these waves of smug RE'ers are temporary. Every now and then they flood us for a year or two in response to some media attention, and eventually they peter out. In my view, it's a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2019, 06:56:35 PM »
Do you really think that would suddenly change everyone's mind?
What if the FE community all pooled together and sent up someone "trustworthy"? Yeah, I don't think this is super realistic, but let's imagine for a bit. Let's say that there was some FE paragon that went up there and relayed their experiences back to the rest of us. Maybe that could change some minds?

I would say fly up Tom and Sandokhan.  Both are well versed in their respective flat earths, and both have vastly different views on the cosmos.  Unless we've figured out how to simulate a zero-gravity environment for extended period of time I think that should be pretty convincing evidence of being out of the effects of gravity/UA.

To Tom and Sandokhan, if you were launched up into this breathable zero-gravity environment without any special outfits for an extended period of time, would you be able to accept that you might be in a structure located in space?
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Offline iamcpc

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2019, 09:09:25 PM »
It wouldn't make any difference. That's not some kind of criticism of flat Earthers. That's just being realistic. Right now, there are 6 human beings in space. That's right now. There have been 536 people who have gone to space. Think about it seriously. What if that 6 became 8? Would that make any difference? What if that 536 turned into 5360? Do you really think that would suddenly change everyone's mind?


I agree 100%  If we have the technological capabilities of living in space then we have the technological capabilities to build a very advanced space simulator.

Even if you went to space and saw a sphere earth that does not mean that the earth is a sphere.  it just means that the light warped so much when it left the atmosphere that your brain thought it was round.



Do you really think that would suddenly change everyone's mind?
What if the FE community all pooled together and sent up someone "trustworthy"? Yeah, I don't think this is super realistic, but let's imagine for a bit. Let's say that there was some FE paragon that went up there and relayed their experiences back to the rest of us. Maybe that could change some minds?

Again it would not matter. When presented with evidence anyone can easily claim that it is false, incorrect, a lie, wrong etc.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 09:20:48 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline Bad Puppy

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2019, 12:44:56 AM »

Even if you went to space and saw a sphere earth that does not mean that the earth is a sphere.  it just means that the light warped so much when it left the atmosphere that your brain thought it was round.


At least three things will happen, though.
1. You would see the continental layout of the planet as it passes under you, and even if you believe it's distorted by an enormous amount of light warping you'll be able to map the planet more accurately than a flat earth has been mapped before.
2. You would watch the earth rotate beneath you and will be able to learn much about how the sun illuminates it.
3. You could see the sun set behind the earth without any magnification effect of an atmosphere and get a better idea of the size of the sun.

It may not definitively answer a round or flat earth question, but you would certainly be able to learn a lot more about the earth, moon, sun and cosmos from the ISS.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
...circles do not exist and pi is not 3.14159...

Quote from: totallackey
Do you have any evidence of reality?

red_dwarf

Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2019, 03:46:38 PM »
Quote
Even if you went to space and saw a sphere earth that does not mean that the earth is a sphere.  it just means that the light warped so much when it left the atmosphere that your brain thought it was round.

So basically what you are saying is that you believe the Earth is flat whatever evidence is presented to you to the contrary.  Even seeing it with your own eyes from a vantage point in space and seeing it as sphere would not convince you about the Earth being spherical.  That is why all flat Earthers refuse to accept as evidence all modern space based photos showing the curved shaped of the Earth. It matters not how they were taken, by who or indeed when.  Simply because they show something that you don't want to believe in gives you the justification to accuse them of being faked. The question is why? Lots and lots of individuals and organisations both public and private have taken photos of the Earth from space now and all of them show a curved surface with an atmosphere.  Why would all of those people and organisations care about what a few people who want to believe the Earth is actually flat think and try and deliberately deceive them?  There are far more important things on their agenda.

What about when you look in the other direction and see an equally spherical Moon and Sun?  I suppose you believe they are not actually spherical either.  The trouble is there is no atmosphere around the Moon to warp the light.  So how do you actually prove that your theory about light warping by Earths atmosphere is real and true rather than just speculation on your part?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 03:48:28 PM by red_dwarf »

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Offline markjo

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2019, 04:13:19 PM »
I agree 100%  If we have the technological capabilities of living in space then we have the technological capabilities to build a very advanced space simulator.
How do you suppose that long term (days or weeks) zero gravity would be simulated on such a trip?  As far as I know, the current method for such long term zero g simulation involves laying in bed.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/28/health/nasa-bed-rest-study-scn-trnd/index.html
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If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline rpt

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2019, 02:52:05 PM »
Unless we've figured out how to simulate a zero-gravity environment for extended period of time I think that should be pretty convincing evidence of being out of the effects of gravity/UA.
How do you suppose that long term (days or weeks) zero gravity would be simulated on such a trip?
The ISS is not zero-gravity. If it was, it wouldn't be in orbit around the earth.

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Offline markjo

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2019, 03:11:45 PM »
How do you suppose that long term (days or weeks) zero gravity would be simulated on such a trip?
The ISS is not zero-gravity. If it was, it wouldn't be in orbit around the earth.
Well, technically the occupants of the ISS are in a microgravity environment, but it's close enough to zero gravity that it dosen't matter for the sake of this discussion.  My question stands - how do you suppose the effects of micro/zero gravity could be simulated for days or weeks at a time?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline rpt

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2019, 11:33:47 AM »
Gravity in the ISS is about 90% of what it is on the earth's surface so it is nowhere near zero gravity. While it doesn't affect your question about how to simulate microgravity I think it is important to be accurate while battling scientific ignorance. Some members of this forum love to seize on these little details to derail a debate.

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Offline Salviati

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2019, 12:58:26 PM »
Gravity in the ISS is about 90% of what it is on the earth's surface so it is nowhere near zero gravity. While it doesn't affect your question about how to simulate microgravity I think it is important to be accurate while battling scientific ignorance. Some members of this forum love to seize on these little details to derail a debate.
Correct. Here we are talking about free falling, not microgravity or zero gravity or whatever.

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Offline markjo

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2019, 05:32:46 PM »
Gravity in the ISS is about 90% of what it is on the earth's surface so it is nowhere near zero gravity. While it doesn't affect your question about how to simulate microgravity I think it is important to be accurate while battling scientific ignorance. Some members of this forum love to seize on these little details to derail a debate.
*sigh*  Yes, you seem to be one of those members. ::)

The ISS is in a constant state of free fall as it orbits the earth.  As a result of this constant free fall, anyone or anything inside the ISS experiences a condition generally referred to as zero/micro gravity.  Now, if everyone is done being pedantic *****, would anyone care to explain how to simulate such an environment for days or weeks at a time?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2019, 07:05:33 PM »
Gravity in the ISS is about 90% of what it is on the earth's surface so it is nowhere near zero gravity. While it doesn't affect your question about how to simulate microgravity I think it is important to be accurate while battling scientific ignorance. Some members of this forum love to seize on these little details to derail a debate.
*sigh*  Yes, you seem to be one of those members. ::)

The ISS is in a constant state of free fall as it orbits the earth.  As a result of this constant free fall, anyone or anything inside the ISS experiences a condition generally referred to as zero/micro gravity.  Now, if everyone is done being pedantic *****, would anyone care to explain how to simulate such an environment for days or weeks at a time?

I'm not sure how plausible this is, just pure speculation, but what if you gave someone a haptic ballasted wetsuit and a waterproof VR headset and stuck them in a chamber filled with a water solution (to decrease viscosity) with waterjets on the walls.
We are smarter than those scientists.
I see multiple contradicting explanations. You guys should have a pow-wow and figure out how your model works.

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Offline markjo

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Re: ISS Open For Business
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2019, 10:25:09 PM »
I'm not sure how plausible this is, just pure speculation, but what if you gave someone a haptic ballasted wetsuit and a waterproof VR headset and stuck them in a chamber filled with a water solution (to decrease viscosity) with waterjets on the walls.

Neutral buoyancy is a good training aid (which is why NASA uses it a lot), but it isn't quite the same as zero/micro gravity.
However, there are two important differences between neutral buoyancy as achieved in the NBL and weightlessness. The first is that suited astronauts training in the NBL are not truly weightless. While they are neutrally buoyant, they nonetheless feel their weight while in their suits. The second is that water drag hinders motion, making some tasks easier, and thers more difficult, to perform in the NBL than in zero gravity. These differences must be recognized by spacewalk trainers. However, despite these differences, neutral buoyancy is currently the best method available by which astronauts train for spacewalks.

Not to mention the logistics of various bodily functions (eating, pooping, sleeping, etc.)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 10:27:47 PM by markjo »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.