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Offline Tom Bishop

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The NBA should be shut down
« on: May 03, 2014, 05:14:15 AM »
Who is the NBA to condemn Donald Sterling for his opinions on people with certain physical characteristics, when the association is itself guilty of discriminating against people for their physical characteristics?

Why isn't the NBA recruiting 5 foot tall Chinese men to play on their teams? Where are all of the Korean women? They are selecting a certain race and gender because they are fast and tall.

The entire thing should be shuttered. The recent actions and announcements from the board that the NBA is an inclusive organization and vehemently against discrimination is a load of BS.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2014, 05:37:12 AM »
Who is the NBA to condemn Donald Sterling for his opinions on people with certain physical characteristics, when the association is itself guilty of discriminating against people for their physical characteristics?

Why isn't the NBA recruiting 5 foot tall Chinese men to play on their teams? Where are all of the Korean women? They are selecting a certain race and gender because they are fast and tall.

No they do not select a race because they are fast and tall.  They select fast and tall people, many of them are black.  If there was a dearth of fast and tall chinese women, guess what the league would be constituted with?

Quote
The entire thing should be shuttered. The recent actions and announcements from the board that the NBA is an inclusive organization and vehemently against discrimination is a load of BS.

Meh, Donald Sterling is a dick.  Social stigmatization is what he deserves.  Not to mention he is a marketing nightmare. 
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2014, 05:43:43 AM »
Who is the NBA to condemn Donald Sterling for his opinions on people with certain physical characteristics, when the association is itself guilty of discriminating against people for their physical characteristics?

If you think that the NBA banned Sterling to punish him for being a racist, then you're an idiot.

The NBA is a for-profit enterprise.  The LA Clippers are a franchise of that enterprise.  The owner of that franchise has made himself a liability to both the franchise, and the league.  If it cares about making as much profit as possible (typically the point of a business), then they'd be absolutely insane not to do everything in their power to take that franchise away from him.

Businesses exist to make profit.  If you're the NBA, employing Chinese women to play basketball is bad for business.  So is a franchise owner who gets taped making racist statements that get played on TMZ.  It's that simple.

That's why the NBA didn't say shit when Sterling was sued by the federal government for housing discrimination against minority tenants.  It wasn't on TMZ, so no one gave a shit.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 05:47:13 AM by garygreen »
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2014, 05:49:04 AM »
That's why the NBA didn't say shit when Sterling was sued by the federal government for housing discrimination against minority tenants.  It wasn't on TMZ, so no one gave a shit.  The NBA is a business.  It exists to make money.

He settled the lawsuits without prejudice.  The NBA could not really substantiate a case if Sterling decided to sue them which he likely would have.  This incident was slam dunk (see what I did there?).
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2014, 06:18:58 AM »
That's why the NBA didn't say shit when Sterling was sued by the federal government for housing discrimination against minority tenants.  It wasn't on TMZ, so no one gave a shit.  The NBA is a business.  It exists to make money.

He settled the lawsuits without prejudice.  The NBA could not really substantiate a case if Sterling decided to sue them which he likely would have.  This incident was slam dunk (see what I did there?).

I know virtually nothing about the legal side of any of this, but I think the NBA agreement gives the Board of Governors pretty broad authority to do what they want so long as they have the support of 2/3 of the owners.  I think the BoG has its own hearing where they can run a full-court press...
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2014, 01:33:32 PM »
The hysterical reaction to this from people sobbing about "free speech" reminds me of the similar response to the Duck Dynasty incident.  Here, have an xkcd:


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Offline markjo

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2014, 03:12:46 PM »
Does anyone else find it amusingly hypocritical that a guy who made such racist remarks has a mixed race girlfriend?
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2014, 03:27:37 PM »
No they do not select a race because they are fast and tall.  They select fast and tall people, many of them are black.  If there was a dearth of fast and tall chinese women, guess what the league would be constituted with?

But the fact is that there are not a lot of tall Chinese women. The NBA is discriminating against them by not recruiting them to play on their teams because of their physical characteristics. This is diametrically opposed to their recent lengthy statements that the NBA is an inclusive association and does not tolerate discrimination in any manner.

Quote from: Gary
Businesses exist to make profit.  If you're the NBA, employing Chinese women to play basketball is bad for business.

That doesn't make discrimination right.

Quote from: Rama
Meh, Donald Sterling is a dick.  Social stigmatization is what he deserves.  Not to mention he is a marketing nightmare.

Donald Sterling was unfairly stigmatized. If you listen to the entire tape he explains his reasoning for not wanting her associate with black people in public, with her slutty poses around them, because he was receiving numerous calls and hate mail from racists who were upset about it.

If you were traveling abroad are sending your daughter to an all-Indian school, as the only Caucasian girl there, you might get a lot of comments and abuse. Is it racist to get fed up with it and take her out of that Indian school?

Donald Sterling explains in the tape that he is just an old man, and does not want to fight the world. He wants to do the simplest thing and have her avoid controversy. I encourage you to find and listen to the full tape. He denies numerous times that his decision has anything to do with hate of black people, but it is simply what must be done because of the society of which we live.

http://deadspin.com/exclusive-the-extended-donald-sterling-tape-1568291249

« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 03:47:18 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2014, 03:39:13 PM »
Does anyone else find it amusingly hypocritical that a guy who made such racist remarks has a mixed race girlfriend?

It doesn't seem very hypocritical if you listen to the actual tapes to get his unfiltered views and opinion on the subject.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 03:42:27 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2014, 03:45:35 PM »
Short Chinese women would suck at basketball. It is not racial discrimination to hire someone that would excel at their job.

I listened to the whole tape. I hear a racist making excuses for his beliefs. I could care less if he is old and world weary. If he feels that way he should become a hermit. I don't buy it anyway since he has multiple discrimination suits against him and a reputation amongst NBA insiders and journalists as a crotchety, misanthropic bigot.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2014, 03:46:41 PM »
Does anyone else find it amusingly hypocritical that a guy who made such racist remarks has a mixed race girlfriend?
She doesn't seem to believe he's racist, either. It seems that, if anything, this is evidence against him being racist.

Quote
'I think the things he says are not the things he feels,' she said. 'Anyone can say anything in the heat of the moment.'
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2014, 04:02:51 PM »
From the Daily Mail article above:

Quote
She wouldn't allow Sterling to take meetings with certain people, Stiviano told Walters, which angered his business peers.

She said that executives and board members of the Clippers who were jealous of the free reign she had when it came to the team would call Sterling and tell him that Stiviano had brought people 'who look a certain way' to Clippers games when he wasn't there.

But not just black people, Stiviano claimed, but people 'that didn't give me a good look,' like 'gangsters,' 'thugs,' 'bad women.'

It makes sense to me. His business partners perceived her as being his mistress/girlfriend when he brought her to games. The comments he received are as expected. If your girlfriend starts taking other guys to parties when you are absent, to have a good time, outside observers might have some not so nice comments to say, too.

Sterling was being attacked by racist and classist remarks, and his options were either to fight the world and the opinions of his business partners, or simply have his girlfriend/mistress to cease her actions and end all controversy.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 05:07:18 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2014, 04:11:49 PM »
Quote from: Gary
Businesses exist to make profit.  If you're the NBA, employing Chinese women to play basketball is bad for business.

That doesn't make discrimination right.

If you treat all discrimination of any kind equally, sure.  That's asinine.  It makes you sound like an idiot.

The MLB refusing to employ Jackie Robinson because he's black is wrong.  The NBA refusing to employ me because I suck at basketball is perfectly fine.  If you can't see the difference between these two things, then you're an idiot.

I want to hear you say, explicitly, that you think that it's morally wrong for an NBA franchise to discriminate against employees based on who is and isn't good at basketball.

Also, you should have actually read the article you posted.  It has a nice link to all of the other racists shit Sterling has been documented saying.  Not that it matters to you, I imagine.  You already glossed over the whole "I don't want Magic Johnson at my games," and the shit about black people being "the enemy."

And somehow in your mind Sterling is defending himself from racism?  What?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:22:25 PM by garygreen »
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2014, 04:16:00 PM »
Does anyone else find it amusingly hypocritical that a guy who made such racist remarks has a mixed race girlfriend?
She doesn't seem to believe he's racist, either. It seems that, if anything, this is evidence against him being racist.

Quote
'I think the things he says are not the things he feels,' she said. 'Anyone can say anything in the heat of the moment.'

She also surmises that he thinks the way he does because he grew up in an older time which smacks of apologetics for racism.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2014, 04:21:22 PM »
Quote from: Gary
Businesses exist to make profit.  If you're the NBA, employing Chinese women to play basketball is bad for business.

That doesn't make discrimination right.

If you treat all discrimination of any kind equally, sure.  That's asinine.  It makes you sound like an idiot.

The MLB refusing to employ Jackie Robinson because he's black is wrong.  The NBA refusing to employ me because I suck at basketball is perfectly fine.  If you can't see the difference between these two things, then you're an idiot.

I want to hear you say, explicitly, that you think that it's morally wrong for an NBA franchise to discriminate against employees based on who is and isn't good at basketball.

I am simply pointing out that the lengthy statements the NBA has made, that they never discriminate, and that they are an inclusive, open association, is false and hypocritical.

The idea that the NBA doesn't hire Chinese women as basketball players because it would result in bad business is as valid as Sterling opinion that his girlfriend's actions would result in bad business. Both actions are discriminatory. Both actions can be passed under the "it's just business" scapegoat you are flaunting.

If discrimination is wrong, then it is wrong at all levels, not just what you pick and choose.

Quote
Also, you should have actually read the article you posted.  It has a nice link to all of the other racists shit Sterling has been documented saying.  Not that it matters.  You already glossed over the whole "I don't want Magic Johnson at my games," and the shit about black people being "the enemy."

And somehow in your mind Sterling is defending himself from racism?  What?]Also, you should have actually read the article you posted.  It has a nice link to all of the other racists shit Sterling has been documented saying.  Not that it matters.  You already glossed over the whole "I don't want Magic Johnson at my games," and the shit about black people being "the enemy."

And somehow in your mind Sterling is defending himself from racism?  What?

I didn't read anything about black people being the enemy.

If your girlfriend started going to parties with other guys, causing you to receive all manner of racist comments and treatment, you would probably want her to stop, too.

If you sent your daughter to an all-Indian school, and received continuing abuse for it, you would want to take her out of that school, too. Are you a RACIST for taking your daughter out of the Indian school? You are discriminating against Indians, after all, not wanting your daughter to be associated with them because of their race. I have not yet received an answer to this question. I believe it to be very valid and pertinent to the issue at hand.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 11:52:40 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2014, 04:29:55 PM »
I am simply pointing out that the lengthy statements the NBA has made, that they never discriminate, and that they are an inclusive, open association, is false and hypocritical.

I cannot find any quote by any NBA representative, including Adam Silver's press conference, saying that the NBA never discriminates.  Please provide me with a quote so that I can better understand what makes you think that the NBA's position is that it's wrong for anyone anywhere to ever discriminate against anyone else for any reason of any kind, and that everyone is free to be included and associated with the NBA to any degree without being discriminated against for any reason, including being bad at basketball.  I can't really find anything like that, but maybe I missed it.

The NBA doesn't hire Chinese women as basketball players because it would result in bad business is as valid as Sterling opinion that his girlfriend's actions would result in bad business. Both actions are discriminatory. Both actions can be passed under the "it's just business" scapegoat you are flaunting.

I just want to get this straight.  You heard that whole transcript, and what you took away from it is that Donald Sterling thinks that his girlfriend associating with Magic Johnson (or anyone else) is bad for business.  You think that?

If discrimination is wrong, then it is wrong at all levels, not just what you pick and choose.

That's an incredibly infantile view of discrimination.  Discriminating on 'how good are you at basketball' is pretty different from discriminating on 'how white are you.'  Honestly, tell me that you can't see the difference.

I didn't read anything about black people being the enemy.

If your girlfriend started going to parties with other guys, causing you to receive all manner of racist comments and treatment, you would probably want her to stop, too.

If you sent your daughter to an all-Indian school, and received continuing abuse for it, you would want to take her out of that school, too. Are you a RACIST for taking your daughter out of the Indian school? You are discriminating against Indians, after all, not wanting your daughter to be associated with them because of their race. I have not yet received an answer to this question. I believe it to be very valid and pertinent to the issue at hand.

The 'enemy' bit is contained in the link I posted.

I don't hear Sterling anywhere describe that he's being abused.  He says he's receiving negative comments from associates.  He doesn't say anything about it hurting business or anything like that.  You know why?

Because Magic Johnson's presence at a Clippers game is not bad for business.  That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.  It's like saying that bringing Magic Johnson to a basketball game is going to hurt...oh wait, I just covered that.

And no, I don't think that the best response to aggressive racists is to submit to them and become a racist.  Your comparison isn't apples to apples, anyway.  If my child were in a threatening environment of any kind I would want her removed from that environment.  Race is irrelevant to that.

In a more accurate comparison, if I sent my daughter to an all-Indian school and some friends of mine starting 'abusing' me with racist remarks about it, I'd get new friends.  Or stand up for my daughter.  Or really anything else but submitting to their racism.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:53:17 PM by garygreen »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2014, 04:53:04 PM »
I cannot find any quote by any NBA representative, including Adam Silver's press conference, saying that the NBA never discriminates.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/transcript-silver-sterling-press-conference-article-1.1773513#ixzz30fhaAzLR

    "Sentiments of this kind are contrary to the principles of inclusion and respect that form the foundation of our diverse, multicultural and multiethnic league."

Silver is suggesting that a foundation of the league is diversity. It is not. Where are all the Korean woman?

He further suggests that the league is founded on multicultural and multiethnic inclusion. It is not. How many Chinese players are being recruited?

If the NBA were truly diverse a basketball team would look like something out of a YMCA infomercial.

Quote
I just want to get this straight.  You heard that whole transcript, and what you took away from it is that Donald Sterling thinks that his girlfriend associating with Magic Johnson (or anyone else) is bad for business.  You think that?

Did you read the Daily Mail article? He was receiving abuse from his business partners because of his girlfriend's actions.

Quote
If discrimination is wrong, then it is wrong at all levels, not just what you pick and choose.

That's an incredibly infantile view of discrimination.  Discriminating on 'how good are you at basketball' is pretty different from discriminating on 'how white are you.'  Honestly, tell me that you can't see the difference.

Basketball is played the world over. There are athletes of all genders and races. But the league seems content with recruiting mainly black americans.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:55:23 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2014, 04:54:25 PM »
Does anyone else find it amusingly hypocritical that a guy who made such racist remarks has a mixed race girlfriend?


She's only with him to make him look less racist  than he obviously is. Also, because he has money. Gold digger confirmed.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:56:30 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2014, 04:59:50 PM »
Quote from: garygreen
And no, I don't think that the best response to aggressive racists is to submit to them and become a racist.  Your comparison isn't apples to apples, anyway.  If my child were in a threatening environment of any kind I would want her removed from that environment.  Race is irrelevant to that.

In a more accurate comparison, if I sent my daughter to an all-Indian school and some friends of mine starting 'abusing' me with racist remarks about it, I'd get new friends.  Or stand up for my daughter.  Or really anything else but submitting to their racism.

That was not my question. I asked that if you sent your daughter to an all-Indian school and you started receiving continuing abuse for it (I didn't specify whether it was from your friends) and you finally got fed up with it and took her out of that school, are you then a RACIST for taking her out of the Indian school? You are taking her out of the school because of their race. You must therefore be a RACIST, right?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 05:02:28 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Offline rooster

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2014, 05:16:14 PM »
Does anyone else find it amusingly hypocritical that a guy who made such racist remarks has a mixed race girlfriend?

Not really. Slave owners got with their slaves too. If you think you're in a higher station than another race than you feel you have the right to use them. Do you think he actually cares for or loves his girlfriend?