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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2014, 05:17:38 PM »
Do you think he actually cares for or loves his girlfriend?
I would assume nothing else without good reason. It would be (and is, in your case) quite disrespectful to throw an accusation like that wildly.
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2014, 05:20:20 PM »
Do you think he actually cares for or loves his girlfriend?
I would assume nothing else without good reason. It would be (and is, in your case) quite disrespectful to throw an accusation like that wildly.

Common sense and human nature dictate otherwise. The woman could get someone far more attractive (on the outside, and probably on the inside) than him. The relationship is mutually beneficial however (one gets money, the other gets to look good to the public among... other things)... so to say that their relationship is a farce is unfair, but to say that she's a trophy girlfriend and that he's the rich sugar daddy isn't that far of a stretch.


I think the point is that: just because he has a "mixed race" girlfriend doesn't mean anything. He could still be a racist bastard for all we know, even if she has come out and said otherwise (isn't that what a good trophy GF is supposed to do?).

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2014, 05:21:44 PM »
Common sense and human nature dictate otherwise. The woman could get someone far more attractive (on the outside, and probably on the inside) than him.
I'll agree that she doesn't love him (she said so herself[1], so it's not a big claim to make), but I see no reason to suspect that he doesn't love or care for her.

[1] - "'I love him,' Stiviano responded, smiling widely, adding that she's not in love but rather loves him 'like a father figure.'" - Daily Mail
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2014, 05:22:49 PM »
Common sense and human nature dictate otherwise. The woman could get someone far more attractive (on the outside, and probably on the inside) than him.
I'll agree that she doesn't love him (she said so herself, so it's not a big claim to make), but I see no reason to suspect that he doesn't love or care for her.


I'm sure he does on some level. I didn't claim otherwise.


[1] - "'I love him,' Stiviano responded, smiling widely, adding that she's not in love but rather loves him 'like a father figure.'" - Daily Mail

That's actually creepy. I guess some women have no qualms about sleeping with their fathers.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2014, 05:23:30 PM »
I didn't claim otherwise.
Rooster did (or at least implied it), which is what I'm strongly objecting to.
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2014, 05:38:59 PM »
Do you think he actually cares for or loves his girlfriend?
I would assume nothing else without good reason. It would be (and is, in your case) quite disrespectful to throw an accusation like that wildly.
I'm not wildly throwing any accusations. That's the beauty of implications.

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Offline markjo

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2014, 05:46:49 PM »
I cannot find any quote by any NBA representative, including Adam Silver's press conference, saying that the NBA never discriminates.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/transcript-silver-sterling-press-conference-article-1.1773513#ixzz30fhaAzLR

    "Sentiments of this kind are contrary to the principles of inclusion and respect that form the foundation of our diverse, multicultural and multiethnic league."

Silver is suggesting that a foundation of the league is diversity. It is not. Where are all the Korean woman?
Where does that statement say anything about being gender inclusive?  ???
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2014, 05:58:22 PM »
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/transcript-silver-sterling-press-conference-article-1.1773513#ixzz30fhaAzLR

    "Sentiments of this kind are contrary to the principles of inclusion and respect that form the foundation of our diverse, multicultural and multiethnic league."

Silver is suggesting that a foundation of the league is diversity. It is not. Where are all the Korean woman?

He further suggests that the league is founded on multicultural and multiethnic inclusion. It is not. How many Chinese players are being recruited?

If the NBA were truly diverse a basketball team would look like something out of a YMCA infomercial.

Sorry, I can't take this argument seriously anymore.  If you can't figure out the difference between race discrimination and talent discrimination, then you're an idiot.  Korean and Chinese citizens are welcome to play basketball in the NBA if they are talented enough to do it.  That there are few Korean and Chinese citizens with the requisite talent and desire to play NBA basketball doesn't mean that the NBA doesn't value multiculturalism.  That's mindbogglingly asinine.

Did you read the Daily Mail article? He was receiving abuse from his business partners because of his girlfriend's actions.
The article says that some board members called him and told him that they didn't like the look of his girlfriend's associates.  No one, including Sterling, uses the word abuse.  You're just inventing that.  No one, including Sterling, says anything about anyone being bad for business.  You're trying to pretend that this guy is being harassed by racists into acting racist to avoid some kind of threat.  That's totally absurd.

Basketball is played the world over. There are athletes of all genders and races. But the league seems content with recruiting mainly black americans.

Because individuals in that demographic are overwhelmingly more likely to have both the talent and desire to play NBA basketball.  I dunno why you're trying to pretend that it has anything to do with race, as if the NBA has few Chinese players because they hate Chinese people.  That's idiotic.

That was not my question. I asked that if you sent your daughter to an all-Indian school and you started receiving continuing abuse for it (I didn't specify whether it was from your friends) and you finally got fed up with it and took her out of that school, are you then a RACIST for taking her out of the Indian school? You are taking her out of the school because of their race. You must therefore be a RACIST, right?

Let me be more clear.  I wouldn't pull my daughter out of her school and send her to a new one just because I got some phone calls from some racists telling me that they didn't like Indian people.  That's absurd.  And, yes, I think that submitting to racists and behaving as they command you to behave is probably going to cause you to do some racist things.  Acting like a coward doesn't stop one from also acting like a racist.

But let's make a real apples-to-apples comparison: If I owned a sports franchise and got calls from board members telling me to stop associating with minorities, I can't imagine how that could possibly be so traumatic to me that I'd actually submit to it. 

Your narrarive of the sweet old man who got harassed into accidentally saying a bunch of super racist shit on tape is completely bogus.  Sterling didn't receive threats.  His business wasn't in jeopardy.  At worst, some racists were mean to him.  Big fucking deal.  He's an adult.  It makes no sense that that would be the cause of his remarks.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2014, 06:15:03 PM »
If you can't figure out the difference between race discrimination and talent discrimination, then you're an idiot.  Korean and Chinese citizens are welcome to play basketball in the NBA if they are talented enough to do it.  That there are few Korean and Chinese citizens with the requisite talent [...]
Whoa, whoa, slow down. Are you saying there generally are physical differences between races?

I wouldn't pull my daughter out of her school and send her to a new one just because I got some phone calls from some racists telling me that they didn't like Indian people.  That's absurd.
It is also irrelevant. We're not asking what you'd do, we're asking if it's a racist thing to do.

And, yes, I think that submitting to racists and behaving as they command you to behave is probably going to cause you to do some racist things.
Be specific. In Tom's scenario, would pulling your daughter out of the school make you a racist?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 06:21:17 PM by pizaaplanet »
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2014, 06:16:44 PM »
What about this guy?



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Offline markjo

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2014, 07:02:11 PM »
What about this guy?
Yao Ming is a Korean woman?  ???
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2014, 07:04:01 PM »
What about this guy?
Yao Ming is a Korean woman?  ???


No, but he's a Chinese man. Women can't play sports. I thought this was common knowledge?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2014, 07:04:10 PM »
Yao Ming is a Korean woman?  ???
No, Yao Ming is Chinese. As for the gender, I would hate to attach any labels to Yao Ming without first asking Yao Ming and receiving a certified response stating Yao Ming's preferred pronouns and gender identity.
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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2014, 07:45:05 PM »
Does anyone else find it amusingly hypocritical that a guy who made such racist remarks has a mixed race girlfriend?

Not really. Slave owners got with their slaves too. If you think you're in a higher station than another race than you feel you have the right to use them. Do you think he actually cares for or loves his girlfriend?
Do you think she loves him ... or his money? I doubt he is stupid enough to think she does.

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Offline markjo

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2014, 07:46:37 PM »
What about this guy?
Yao Ming is a Korean woman?  ???
No, but he's a Chinese man. Women can't play sports. I thought this was common knowledge?
Apparently talent is irrelevant to inclusion.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2014, 07:54:07 PM »
If you can't figure out the difference between race discrimination and talent discrimination, then you're an idiot.  Korean and Chinese citizens are welcome to play basketball in the NBA if they are talented enough to do it.  That there are few Korean and Chinese citizens with the requisite talent [...] and desire
Whoa, whoa, slow down. Are you saying there generally are physical differences between races?
Um, no.  You just lopped off the end of my sentence to make it seem that way.  It's yet another demonstration of your complete inability to fairly characterize others' arguments.

Few Chinese or Korean athletes with the requisite talent to compete in NBA basketball are interested in doing so.  There are fewer opportunities for young Chinese and Korean athletes to learn and play basketball since it isn't as popular in those cultures.  It's probably also just easier, cheaper, and more popular to recruit and scout American athletes over foreign ones.  There are undoubtedly fewer opportunities for a foreign athlete to prove to an American franchise that he has the requisite skills to compete for a spot on a NBA roster.

And, yes, I think that submitting to racists and behaving as they command you to behave is probably going to cause you to do some racist things.
Be specific. In Tom's scenario, would pulling your daughter out of the school make you a racist?

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: No, it doesn't cause you to suddenly be a person who believes in racial superiority.  Yes, telling your daughter not to associate with Indian people is a racist thing to do (a much more accurate analogy to what really happened; Sterling didn't pull his girlfriend out of the NBA...he told her not to associate with black people).  Yes, pulling your daughter out of her school simply because Indian students attend it is a racist thing to do.  People who do not believe in racial superiority are still capable of doing racist things and behaving in a racist manner.

Not that I don't love argument by analogy, but let's at least use a relatively accurate one.  Sterling's girlfriend is an adult, he didn't pull her out of the NBA, and he wasn't "continually abused" (Tom is literally just making that up).  Let's stop pretending that Sterling was some random, sweet, loving old dude somehow duped into saying something racist when he doesn't really mean any of it.  He has a documented history of saying some pretty fucked up shit about racial minorities.

More accurately, if I was a NBA franchise owner and I received regular phone calls from my BoG telling me to make my girlfriend stop associating with black people, I think it would be racist of me to tell my girlfriend to stop associating with black people.  That would be a racist thing to do.  The fact that a bunch of people called me and told me to behave in a racist way wouldn't absolve me of behaving like a racist.

And it's all irrelevant anyway.  It doesn't mater if he's a racist or not.  The NBA's labor pool believe he's racist.  The NBA's customers believe he's racist.  The NBA is in the business of making cash hand-over-fist, and they need customers and a labor pool to do that.  He's got to go.
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Offline rooster

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2014, 08:42:49 PM »
Do you think she loves him ... or his money? I doubt he is stupid enough to think she does.
This was about him and why it's not strange for a racist to be with a girl of color. Her feelings and motivations are irrelevant.

Ghost of V

Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2014, 08:49:35 PM »
Do you think she loves him ... or his money? I doubt he is stupid enough to think she does.
This was about him and why it's not strange for a racist to be with a girl of color. Her feelings and motivations are irrelevant.

Are you defending a gold digging layabout because she's female?

I smell some feminism in this post.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2014, 08:54:52 PM »
Um, no.  You just lopped off the end of my sentence to make it seem that way.  It's yet another demonstration of your complete inability to fairly characterize others' arguments.

Few Chinese or Korean athletes with the requisite talent to compete in NBA basketball are interested in doing so.  There are fewer opportunities for young Chinese and Korean athletes to learn and play basketball since it isn't as popular in those cultures.  It's probably also just easier, cheaper, and more popular to recruit and scout American athletes over foreign ones.  There are undoubtedly fewer opportunities for a foreign athlete to prove to an American franchise that he has the requisite skills to compete for a spot on a NBA roster.
Ah, right. Sorry, I was under the assumption that you were about to say something reasonable for once. So you're of the belief that the average low height of Chinese and Korean people has nothing to do with it, and it's all about training and desire. Typical "well informed, thanks" approach.

Long answer: No, it doesn't cause you to suddenly be a person who believes in racial superiority.
Fantastic! You are capable of saying something that's not fundamentally wrong on occasion!

And it's all irrelevant anyway.  It doesn't mater if he's a racist or not.  The NBA's labor pool believe he's racist.  The NBA's customers believe he's racist.  The NBA is in the business of making cash hand-over-fist, and they need customers and a labor pool to do that.  He's got to go.
It's not irrelevant. We all know that the people think he's racist. We argue that it's an unfair and uneducated position.

An analogy:
1. inquisitive says "pizaaplanet is stupid for believing the Earth is a cube!"
2. Tom Bishop says "pizaaplanet doesn't believe the Earth is a cube, it just appears that way."
3. garygreen says "He obviously believes it, you're just making things up."
4. Irushwithscvs says "He clearly does not believe it. Imagine you could be popular and pull all the girls by claiming the Earth is a cube, you'd totally do it too."
5. garygreen says "That's a terrible analogy, but no, I wouldn't. Besides, it's irrelevant. People believe that he believes the Earth is a cube". garygreen entirely misses the point of the discussion, and ends up contributing much less than he intended to.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 09:01:48 PM by pizaaplanet »
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Offline rooster

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Re: The NBA should be shut down
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2014, 10:26:28 PM »
Do you think she loves him ... or his money? I doubt he is stupid enough to think she does.
This was about him and why it's not strange for a racist to be with a girl of color. Her feelings and motivations are irrelevant.

Are you defending a gold digging layabout because she's female?
No.