Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #200 on: May 25, 2019, 05:42:10 PM »
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For 8 or 9 pages, I've been actively been trying to help you, since you expressed a lack of understanding from page 1 onwards.

We can close the thread now if we can establish whether or not the contributions from myself and others have answered your original questions. Have they?

You seem to have difficulty understanding the thread, the discussion, and the subject-matter. I don't see anyone saying "look at Tunemi's drawings/explanations, he explained it!". You have had zero support. No one seems to care about your drawings or explanations. You continuously make "explanations" for subjects which are not argued or discussed, here and elsewhere.
Tumeni has been entirely accurate with every one of his diagrams and explanations. So, please look at Tumeni's drawings/explanations, he explained it!.

I think what I've thunk all along. Tom is simply trying to distract and divert from anything relevant to answering his original question. Let me remind you:
Help me understand the direction of the Solar Eclipse.

According to what we observe:

- The Sun sets in the West.
- The Moon sets in the West.
...
"The Earth rotates counter-clockwise on its axis (picture a spinning top). Because of this motion, celestial bodies such as the Sun, Moon and stars appear to rise in the eastern sky and set in the western sky."
...
If we observe the earth from the perspective of the sun, from a static point over the earth, the shadow of the moon would appear on the East Coast first and end on the West Coast.
...
When pressed for an answer, some have that it started in the West because the Moon is traveling around the Earth from West to East. However, if we have the Moon rotating around the Earth faster than Earth's rotation, then we should see the Moon set in the East every day.

How does this work?

So there is no doubt whatsoever that Tom is conflating the Moon's linear motion (and thus the shadow) with the Moon's angular speed. That's the entire premise behind Tom's question. Here it is once more: "...if we have the Moon rotating around the Earth faster than Earth's rotation, then we should see the Moon set in the East every day."

As Tumeni has been trying to explain, Tom is conflating linear motion with angular motion. To be clear
1) The location of the Moon in our sky is determined by its relative angular speed (degrees per hour).
2) The location of the Moon's shadow on our ground is determined by its relative linear speed (miles per hour).

It's unclear whether or not Tom is on board with this distinction at this point. The fact Tom's stance remains unclear tells you everything you need to know.

Tom is not trying to prove that the eclipse shows a flaw in the geometry. He's making no effort to show that.
Tom is not trying to understand how the eclipse works. Someone trying to understand asks clarifying questions, and they are willing to cooperate in the process by answering questions themselves.

So what is Tom trying to do? Tom's posts form a pattern. No matter what you post, Tom somehow doesn't understand. When shown a physical model, he still claims it isn't possible. Although he is clearly conflating angular speed with linear speed, he insists that you're off-topic by trying to explain that. When asked direct questions, he doesn't answer. Instead, he distracts and deflects.
It appears that he is merely trying to frustrate his opponents.

I dare say, that's the best debate tactic available for this position. If I were to persist with a point that is so clearly defeated, I don't think I could do any better.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #201 on: May 25, 2019, 05:53:17 PM »
The ability to get this to work in RET merely  means that astronomers had this conversation hundreds of years ago to get it to work.

You don't think astronomers ever questioned why the eclipse travels in the way that it does and how they can make a model or explain it in a way that makes any sense? Confirmation bias. Little evidence of any matter.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #202 on: May 25, 2019, 06:24:03 PM »
The ability to get this to work in RET merely  means that astronomers had this conversation hundreds of years ago to get it to work.

You don't think astronomers ever questioned why the eclipse travels in the way that it does and how they can make a model or explain it in a way that makes any sense? Confirmation bias. Little evidence of any matter.
For the record no one 'got this to work', it just works. Maybe people took the time to understand why it happens and came to the same conclusion you must have by now. You're very quick to assume people have fabricated a round earth as opposed to simply discovering it to be the way it is.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #203 on: May 25, 2019, 07:25:12 PM »
Tom, look at Tumeni’s diagrams and explanations! He explained it!
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #204 on: May 25, 2019, 07:41:51 PM »
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Tom, look at Tumeni’s diagrams and explanations! He explained it!

Too late.

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For the record no one 'got this to work', it just works

An interesting claim, that no one ever worked on the round earth theory to try and get things to work. Did God tell them about it then?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 07:45:02 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #205 on: May 25, 2019, 07:53:31 PM »
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Tom, look at Tumeni’s diagrams and explanations! He explained it!

Too late.


Why?
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #206 on: May 25, 2019, 07:59:26 PM »
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Tom, look at Tumeni’s diagrams and explanations! He explained it!

Too late.

Quote
For the record no one 'got this to work', it just works

An interesting claim, that no one ever worked on the round earth theory to try and get things to work. Did God tell them about it then?
Oh no, people studied and researched but these researchers and scientists didn't make the world work the way it works. What is an interesting claim is your claim that people made things work the way they do, which seems to assume that it's all essentially made up.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #207 on: May 25, 2019, 08:22:06 PM »
Did God tell them about it then?
.
People studied how reality worked. Welcome to the scientific method 👏. But we both know you already know this. Why play stupid?
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #208 on: May 25, 2019, 08:58:53 PM »
Did God tell them about it then?
.
People studied how reality worked. Welcome to the scientific method 👏. But we both know you already know this. Why play stupid?

The scientific method says that an experiment must be made to verify an idea. Observation and interpretation is insufficient. What experiment was performed hundreds of years ago for lunar theory?

« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 10:22:12 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline Tim Alphabeaver

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #209 on: May 25, 2019, 09:33:20 PM »
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
**I move away from the infinite flat plane to breathe in

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #210 on: May 25, 2019, 09:50:38 PM »
The scientific method says that an experiment must be made to verify an idea. Observation and interpretation is insufficient.

- - - Why? Because you found a colourful graphic that says so, at a basic level?

What experiment was performed hundreds of years ago for lunar theory?

Observation over those hundreds of years. Analysis of results from those observations. The observation was, in and of itself, the experiment.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #211 on: May 25, 2019, 10:51:15 PM »
Your theory was not created on the basis of experimentation in an artificial way to determine true causes of phenomena, as demanded by the scientific method? Only observation and interpretation like Astrology? I see.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline markjo

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #212 on: May 25, 2019, 11:56:13 PM »
Your theory was not created on the basis of experimentation in an artificial way to determine true causes of phenomena, as demanded by the scientific method? Only observation and interpretation like Astrology? I see.
Tom, you've already been shown a video of a controlled experiment where a model of the earth/moon/sun system was used to create a solar eclipse that reasonably matches real world observations.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #213 on: May 25, 2019, 11:57:26 PM »
Your theory was not created on the basis of experimentation in an artificial way to determine true causes of phenomena, as demanded by the scientific method? Only observation and interpretation like Astrology? I see.
Tom, you've already been shown a video of a controlled experiment where a model of the earth/moon/sun system was used to create a solar eclipse that matches real world observations.

That's not an experiment on the world to determine its true nature. That's called making a model without experimental confirmation to back up your ideas.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline markjo

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #214 on: May 26, 2019, 12:15:22 AM »
Your theory was not created on the basis of experimentation in an artificial way to determine true causes of phenomena, as demanded by the scientific method? Only observation and interpretation like Astrology? I see.
Tom, you've already been shown a video of a controlled experiment where a model of the earth/moon/sun system was used to create a solar eclipse that matches real world observations.

That's not an experiment on the world to determine its true nature. That's called making a model without experimental confirmation to back up your ideas.
Tom, if an experiment using a model matches real world observations, then that is experimental evidence that the model is an accurate representation of reality.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #215 on: May 26, 2019, 12:43:12 AM »
Tom, if an experiment using a model matches real world observations, then that is experimental evidence that the model is an accurate representation of reality.

So the model of Astrology is real? It's really the stars causing the trends we see on earth? Interesting.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline markjo

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #216 on: May 26, 2019, 12:47:53 AM »
Tom, if an experiment using a model matches real world observations, then that is experimental evidence that the model is an accurate representation of reality.

So the model of Astrology is real? It's really the stars causing the trends we see on earth? Interesting.
Are you saying that astrologers didn't predict eclipses?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #217 on: May 26, 2019, 12:57:41 AM »
Your theory was not created on the basis of experimentation in an artificial way to determine true causes of phenomena, as demanded by the scientific method? Only observation and interpretation like Astrology? I see.

So the Bishop “Experiment” is also astrology? I see.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #218 on: May 26, 2019, 01:08:09 AM »
Your theory was not created on the basis of experimentation in an artificial way to determine true causes of phenomena, as demanded by the scientific method? Only observation and interpretation like Astrology? I see.

So the Bishop “Experiment” is also astrology? I see.

It matched the FE model. So it must be flat.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Re: Solar Eclipse Path Moving in Wrong Direction
« Reply #219 on: May 26, 2019, 01:14:15 AM »
Your theory was not created on the basis of experimentation in an artificial way to determine true causes of phenomena, as demanded by the scientific method? Only observation and interpretation like Astrology? I see.

So the Bishop “Experiment” is also astrology? I see.

It matched the FE model. So it must be flat.

Not an experiment is it?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.