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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #120 on: April 04, 2015, 11:43:17 PM »
can't be proven or disproven.  Which is why it's not scientific.

Well done.

We can currently prove ET life exists just as much as we can prove god exists: we can't. Unless you were planning on taking your Prius to go look.

Of course we can prove it. That we haven't does not mean we can't.

We just don't do it because it doesn't interest us very much, huh?

You can't force a radio signal from an alien civilization to get to Earth. You have to wait for it. But people are looking.

So until one comes, if one ever does, we can't prove it.

I feel like you feel like you are leading me in to a trap.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #121 on: April 04, 2015, 11:45:01 PM »
can't be proven or disproven.  Which is why it's not scientific.

Well done.

We can currently prove ET life exists just as much as we can prove god exists: we can't. Unless you were planning on taking your Prius to go look.

Of course we can prove it. That we haven't does not mean we can't.

We just don't do it because it doesn't interest us very much, huh?

You can't force a radio signal from an alien civilization to get to Earth. You have to wait for it. But people are looking.

So until one comes, if one ever does, we can't prove it.

I feel like you feel like you are leading me in to a trap.

No, I'm just filling the gaps in your education that you seem to have missed in kindergarten.
I stopped going to the gym because of Trump. Now I can't open jars

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #122 on: April 04, 2015, 11:48:36 PM »
I feel like you feel like you are leading me in to a trap.

He's practicing some basic troll techniques.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #123 on: April 04, 2015, 11:57:34 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Do you have a good reason for assuming that life does not exist outside our solar system? Despite the fact that other possibly hospitable planets have been detected?

I see you still haven't bothered to read that Wikipedia article. If you want to say life exists outside the solar system, you're free to do so. I'm just saying you might as well be religious too, while you're at it. If you're going to believe in nonsense, might as well broaden your spectrum a bit.

Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #124 on: April 04, 2015, 11:58:30 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Do you have a good reason for assuming that life does not exist outside our solar system? Despite the fact that other possibly hospitable planets have been detected?

I see you still haven't bothered to read that Wikipedia article. If you want to say life exists outside the solar system, you're free to do so. I'm just saying you might as well be religious too, while you're at it. If you're going to believe in nonsense, might as well broaden your spectrum a bit.

no u

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #125 on: April 05, 2015, 01:33:38 AM »
Life outside the solar system can be proven or disproven.

Disproving life outside the solar system is technically possible, but completely unfeasible. You'd have to search the entire universe. Saying that makes it scientific would be no different than me saying God is on another planet, we just haven't been to it yet.
But how would you disprove God?  Disproving life outside of the solar system (can we just say Earth?) is possible, as you noted.  But can you devise a test to disprove God?  Unless I'm wrong, that's one of the reasons God is not scientific: No test can be devised to disprove it's existence.

can't be proven or disproven.  Which is why it's not scientific.

Well done.

We can currently prove ET life exists just as much as we can prove god exists: we can't. Unless you were planning on taking your Prius to go look.
God can't be disproved.  No test can be devised that God can't simply fool.  Heck, God could change the rules of reality.  How do you use science against that kind of supernatural power?

And as Rushy pointed out, life outside of the solar system CAN be disproved.  It's impractical and not worth doing, but it could be done.

So, God is not the same as ET.  God can't be disproved, ET can.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #126 on: April 05, 2015, 01:54:04 AM »
But how would you disprove God?  Disproving life outside of the solar system (can we just say Earth?) is possible, as you noted.  But can you devise a test to disprove God?  Unless I'm wrong, that's one of the reasons God is not scientific: No test can be devised to disprove it's existence.

Saying it is technically possible is not the same as saying it is falsifiable. You proposed an unfalsifiable claim because searching the entire universe is unfeasible. Like I said, it would no different than me saying God is on another planet, we just haven't found it yet. Now I've just made God a technically possible to disprove claim, but it is still unfeasible to do so.

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #127 on: April 05, 2015, 02:10:06 AM »
But how would you disprove God?  Disproving life outside of the solar system (can we just say Earth?) is possible, as you noted.  But can you devise a test to disprove God?  Unless I'm wrong, that's one of the reasons God is not scientific: No test can be devised to disprove it's existence.

Saying it is technically possible is not the same as saying it is falsifiable. You proposed an unfalsifiable claim because searching the entire universe is unfeasible. Like I said, it would no different than me saying God is on another planet, we just haven't found it yet. Now I've just made God a technically possible to disprove claim, but it is still unfeasible to do so.

It's unfeasible now but so what?  Plenty of things have been seen as unfeasible until we did them.  This isn't an argument (as it's a logical fallacy) but simply a fact: You can't say it will never be feasible.  I can't say it will be either.  But it is definitely not impossible that it will become feasible.

Of course, this assumes life doesn't exist outside of Earth.  If it does, then it likely won't require searching the whole universe before we find it.

However, even if life was on Titan, it's currently infeasible to find it.  We can't even search all places on our own planet for life as it's infeasible. (pressure and heat being the key factors)

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #128 on: April 05, 2015, 02:12:37 AM »
It's unfeasible now but so what?  Plenty of things have been seen as unfeasible until we did them.  This isn't an argument (as it's a logical fallacy) but simply a fact: You can't say it will never be feasible.  I can't say it will be either.  But it is definitely not impossible that it will become feasible.

You are suggesting that it will eventually be feasible to search the entirety of the universe for life.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #129 on: April 05, 2015, 02:14:51 AM »
It's unfeasible now but so what?  Plenty of things have been seen as unfeasible until we did them.  This isn't an argument (as it's a logical fallacy) but simply a fact: You can't say it will never be feasible.  I can't say it will be either.  But it is definitely not impossible that it will become feasible.

You are suggesting that it will eventually be feasible to search the entirety of the universe for life.

Didn't you suggest that humanity might eventually reverse entropy recently?
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #130 on: April 05, 2015, 02:15:52 AM »
Didn't you suggest that humanity might eventually reverse entropy recently?

Please quote me that post so I can argue with myself.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #131 on: April 05, 2015, 02:19:21 AM »
Didn't you suggest that humanity might eventually reverse entropy recently?

Please quote me that post so I can argue with myself.

So what will we do when each atom in existence is separated by trillions of light years?

Put them back together.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #132 on: April 05, 2015, 02:21:52 AM »
Didn't you suggest that humanity might eventually reverse entropy recently?

Please quote me that post so I can argue with myself.

So what will we do when each atom in existence is separated by trillions of light years?

Put them back together.

That has nothing to do with reversing entropy.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #133 on: April 05, 2015, 02:28:40 AM »
Okay, reversing the universe's heat death, caused by entropy.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #134 on: April 05, 2015, 02:31:38 AM »
It's unfeasible now but so what?  Plenty of things have been seen as unfeasible until we did them.  This isn't an argument (as it's a logical fallacy) but simply a fact: You can't say it will never be feasible.  I can't say it will be either.  But it is definitely not impossible that it will become feasible.

You are suggesting that it will eventually be feasible to search the entirety of the universe for life.
I'm suggesting that it's possible it will eventually be feasible to search the entirety of the universe for life. 

I look at it this way:
If I asked anyone in the 15th century if we'll ever visit the moon, I'm sure everyone I meet would laugh at me and say it's impossible.  The distances are simply large to launch or fly to. 

I can't predict the future so I'm not going to assume something will always be infeasible just because it is now.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #135 on: April 05, 2015, 02:32:22 AM »
Okay, reversing the universe's heat death, caused by entropy.

You asked what we could do if they were really far apart and I answered we could put them back together. You never stipulated that there is no available energy left in the universe due to some environmental phenomenon.

I'm suggesting that it's possible it will eventually be feasible to search the entirety of the universe for life. 

Okay. I was just making sure.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #136 on: April 05, 2015, 02:50:37 AM »
Okay, reversing the universe's heat death, caused by entropy.

You asked what we could do if they were really far apart and I answered we could put them back together. You never stipulated that there is no available energy left in the universe due to some environmental phenomenon.


He did stipulate that every atom was separated by trillions of light years though.  Sort of hard to mobilize at that point.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #137 on: April 05, 2015, 02:53:30 AM »
He did stipulate that every atom was separated by trillions of light years though.  Sort of hard to mobilize at that point.

It would be very hard, yes, but he didn't say it involved the heat death of the universe.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #138 on: April 05, 2015, 03:01:26 AM »
The point is that you suggested we might do something that would be unfathamable with today's technology on a universal scale, like, say, searching the universe for life.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #139 on: April 05, 2015, 03:44:10 AM »
The point is that you suggested we might do something that would be unfathamable with today's technology on a universal scale, like, say, searching the universe for life.

The difference is that my suggestion was made tongue in cheek and Dave's was not.