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Offline beardo

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1420 on: November 04, 2014, 01:49:55 PM »
If God does not exist, then the idea of God cannot be passed down in the culture
If the Hindu Gods don't exist, then the idea of the Hindu Gods cannot be passed down in the culture

Wait, they are.. So the Hindu Gods exists?
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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1421 on: November 04, 2014, 01:57:20 PM »
Yes, actually. The average American, at least, reads at no higher than the Eighth Grade level. The average newspaper here is written at that level, with the New York Times doing a bit better at the 12th Grade level. Having been a Professor before, I know this shit.

And if you look at the language called Basic English, they manage to reduce the vocabulary to 800 words.

Professor David Crystal, author of amongst others, The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language, has this to say about estimating the average size of a person's vocabulary.

An easier question to answer, he maintains, is the size of the average person's vocabulary.

He suggests taking a sample of about 20 or 30 pages from a medium-sized dictionary, one which contains about 100,000 entries or 1,000 to 1,500 pages.

Tick off the ones you know and count them. Then multiply that by the number of pages and you will discover how many words you know. Most people vastly underestimate their total.
 
"Most people know half the words - about 50,000 - easily. A reasonably educated person about 75,000 and a really cool, smart person well, maybe all of them but that is rather unusual.

"An ordinary person, one who has not been to university say, would know about 35,000 quite easily."

Professor Crystal knows his shit as well and his shit seems to be different from yours. The question is who should I believe?


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Offline jroa

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1422 on: November 04, 2014, 02:02:19 PM »
You are so full of shit its amazing. Go to Albania, which was officially declared a completely Atheist State in 1967, and EVERY house of worship was closed, and anyone who owned any religious material could be given extremely long prison sentences, and anyone who spoke of it in public was shot. Even the USSR never went quite that far.
I was stationed in Albania for a time, while NATO construction workers were building a highway to Kosovo.  Yes, the women are very ugly, but the people are very nice.

In case you did not realise this, there are machinegun pill boxes littered all around the country.  This was done when their paranoid leadership thought the US was going to attack at anytime. 

Now, those pillboxes remain unmanned.  There are just ugly women and gangsters everywhere, or at least that was the case 15 years ago.  So, what is your point? 

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1423 on: November 04, 2014, 02:05:45 PM »
Yonah, I'm a little hard pressed finding any evidence that atheists want to murder people and think they're better than everyone else. Could you mind giving me some sort of, you know, atheist bible that clears up all the atheist rules for me? Thanks. I want to make sure I'm being an orthodox atheist.

Yonah, I still can't find any rulebooks for atheism. Can you please help?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1424 on: November 04, 2014, 02:34:24 PM »
So the oral history of the Jews does not exist. Got it.

This meme idea is extremely simple and self-evident. The God meme is passed on by a culture participating in and propagating the idea throug story-telling, worship, rituals, holidays, etc.... Why are you struggling Yaakov?

If God does not exist, then the idea of God cannot be passed down in the culture, since the idea is inherantly illogical, like the idea "married bachelor". Either God exists or he doesn't. Story telling is one thing. But God, the ultimate power in the universe, either exists as a logical thought, or he does not. If he does not, then that illogical thought cannot be propagated. Since it can be, he must exist. A variation on the Ontological Argument. But true nonetheless.

So an idea of something cannot exist unless the thing actually exists?  Is this your position?

If so, can you please tell me how I can get to Santa's workshop, where do I find the Easter Bunny's hole and how can I get that damn boogie man to stop bothering my son?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 02:36:15 PM by Rama Set »
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1425 on: November 04, 2014, 02:41:19 PM »
and how can I get that damn boogie man to stop bothering my son?

First, check the wardrobe.
Second, check under the bed.
Third, set a trap with milk and biscuits.
Fourth, whilst he is gorging on the milk and biscuits, beat the whatsit out of him with a baseball or cricket bat depending on your sporting disposition.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1426 on: November 04, 2014, 02:43:00 PM »
The treatment of religion in the communist countries sounds more like a problem with communism than atheism.  America is an atheist country, it has no official religion, but it allows people to believe and practice how they want, within legal confines of course. 

Are you allowed to wear clothing made of mixed material?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1427 on: November 04, 2014, 04:01:16 PM »
If God does not exist, then the idea of God cannot be passed down in the culture
If the Hindu Gods don't exist, then the idea of the Hindu Gods cannot be passed down in the culture

Wait, they are.. So the Hindu Gods exists?

The Argument from Ontology only works with a monotheistic Deity. Are you so dense that you have never read that argument? Go back a way in the thread. Succinctly put:

1. I can conceive of a being a greater than which cannot possibly be conceived.
2. Existence is greater than non-existence.
3. Ergo, God exists.


Yes, actually. The average American, at least, reads at no higher than the Eighth Grade level. The average newspaper here is written at that level, with the New York Times doing a bit better at the 12th Grade level. Having been a Professor before, I know this shit.

And if you look at the language called Basic English, they manage to reduce the vocabulary to 800 words.

Professor David Crystal, author of amongst others, The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language, has this to say about estimating the average size of a person's vocabulary.

An easier question to answer, he maintains, is the size of the average person's vocabulary.

He suggests taking a sample of about 20 or 30 pages from a medium-sized dictionary, one which contains about 100,000 entries or 1,000 to 1,500 pages.

Tick off the ones you know and count them. Then multiply that by the number of pages and you will discover how many words you know. Most people vastly underestimate their total.
 
"Most people know half the words - about 50,000 - easily. A reasonably educated person about 75,000 and a really cool, smart person well, maybe all of them but that is rather unusual.

"An ordinary person, one who has not been to university say, would know about 35,000 quite easily."

Professor Crystal knows his shit as well and his shit seems to be different from yours. The question is who should I believe?



Notice, he's an Englishmen. Their education tends to be a bit better than ours. The avg American reads at the 8th Grade level. I am not exaggerating that. You would be astounded at how much the avg American, supposedly high school graduated, college-bound student does NOT know. Having dealt with them in entry level history courses, I know just how ignorant they are.


You are so full of shit its amazing. Go to Albania, which was officially declared a completely Atheist State in 1967, and EVERY house of worship was closed, and anyone who owned any religious material could be given extremely long prison sentences, and anyone who spoke of it in public was shot. Even the USSR never went quite that far.
I was stationed in Albania for a time, while NATO construction workers were building a highway to Kosovo.  Yes, the women are very ugly, but the people are very nice.

In case you did not realise this, there are machinegun pill boxes littered all around the country.  This was done when their paranoid leadership thought the US was going to attack at anytime. 

Now, those pillboxes remain unmanned.  There are just ugly women and gangsters everywhere, or at least that was the case 15 years ago.  So, what is your point? 

Yes, I was aware of the pill boxes. And I am aware that they are currently unmanned. My point is that the so-called "Communist" (which, while they were a lot of things, were NEVER Communist) states of the world, without exception, were EXTREMELY hostile to religion as a matter of course, Killing religious people was part and parcel of government policy, although none took it quite to the degree of Enver Hoxha, of course. Your point is...?


So the oral history of the Jews does not exist. Got it.

This meme idea is extremely simple and self-evident. The God meme is passed on by a culture participating in and propagating the idea throug story-telling, worship, rituals, holidays, etc.... Why are you struggling Yaakov?

If God does not exist, then the idea of God cannot be passed down in the culture, since the idea is inherantly illogical, like the idea "married bachelor". Either God exists or he doesn't. Story telling is one thing. But God, the ultimate power in the universe, either exists as a logical thought, or he does not. If he does not, then that illogical thought cannot be propagated. Since it can be, he must exist. A variation on the Ontological Argument. But true nonetheless.

So an idea of something cannot exist unless the thing actually exists?  Is this your position?

If so, can you please tell me how I can get to Santa's workshop, where do I find the Easter Bunny's hole and how can I get that damn boogie man to stop bothering my son?

That is just a stupid response, and was dealt with years ago. The Argument from Ontology never intended to suggest that it strictly based on existence alone. Obviously, that would be foolishness. Although, even if that was true, you would be hard-pressed to find anybody who would say that the world is a better place because Santa existed or didn't.

The Argument from Ontology is predicated on the fact that a Being that is Greater than Everything exists. Not greater in certain aspects. We're not talking about a greater Coke can, or a greater car, or something like that. We are talking about infinite greatness.

Taking the Coke can as an example, a greatest Coke can might have more Coke in it (which is a bummer if you like Pepsi) than any other Coke can, but the fact that it doesn't have Pepsi in it makes it not so great. God's greatness is universally recognised by anybody with a brain. I mean, I realise of course, that atheists don't qualify as having brains, but I shall deal with that matter separately.


Yonah, I'm a little hard pressed finding any evidence that atheists want to murder people and think they're better than everyone else. Could you mind giving me some sort of, you know, atheist bible that clears up all the atheist rules for me? Thanks. I want to make sure I'm being an orthodox atheist.

Yonah, I still can't find any rulebooks for atheism. Can you please help?

Irrelevant. Atheists don't need a rulebook. Intolerance and general assholishness are sufficient rules for them.


The treatment of religion in the communist countries sounds more like a problem with communism than atheism.  America is an atheist country, it has no official religion, but it allows people to believe and practice how they want, within legal confines of course. 

Are you allowed to wear clothing made of mixed material?

America may be many things, but Atheist it is not. It may not have an official religion, but the fact that it allows churches to perform marriages recognised by the State indicates that it is not officially Atheist. You want that, go to Mexico. There, you can get married in Church if you wish, but you still have to get married by the State, or your marriage is not considered valid. This is considered the case in MOST countries following the Napoleonic Code.

The fact that Iowa still has laws forbidding car dealerships from being open on Sunday indicates how non-Atheist the US is. Other states are the same way, with that and other laws, regarding the selling of alcohol, and other topics. You need to get your facts straight.

Clothing made of mixed material is not permitted in Judaism.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 04:07:06 PM by Yonah ben Amittai »

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1428 on: November 04, 2014, 04:21:39 PM »
Yonah's logic is both valid and sound.  I use identical reasoning to justify my hatred of nations that start with the letter P.  Each of those nations has a long, storied history of dictatorships, violence, and oppression against its citizenry.  Panama, Peru, and Paraguay all continually oppress their indigenous populations.  Pakistan is nothing but terrorists.  Portugal operated as a colonial power for centuries.  Every single nation that begins with the letter P has done terrible things to both its citizenry and the citizenry of its neighbors.  They're nothing but savage subhumans who should be deported or killed.

Also, the Ontological Arguments is a really excellent demonstration of deduction, and it's still taken very seriously in both religion and philosophy.  Kudos to Yonah for reviving it after its death in the 18th Century. 
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1429 on: November 04, 2014, 04:51:11 PM »
Yon nah-You understand that there is a difference between an argument being logically coherent and an argument actually describing reality right?  I really hope you get that.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1430 on: November 04, 2014, 04:56:24 PM »
You can be married in a church in America, but unless you file a license with the state, you're not married.  You should know this since you went through it recently.  The ontological argument can be used to make the case God could exist, but it can be used to make the case that a lot of other things could exist.  It doesn't even get close to proving anything does exist.  I really don't know why you continue to hold on to it.

Why are mixed threads prohibited?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1431 on: November 04, 2014, 05:01:17 PM »
GARY, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You have managed to surpass Thork. Good move.

Rama, until you can come up with an argument that can defeat the Ontological Argument, I advise shutting your yap. Since we're dealing with God here, the Ultimate Reality is that which is coherent. My God, I just went through this in the LAST post! How dense is it possible for one group of people to be?! It can't possibly be that bad, can it? The atheist cannot prove a negative. I, on the other hand, can give you strong reasons for believing that God exists, albeit not deductively certain ones. You cannot give me strong reasons for assuming that he does not. You've tried, in this and other threads, and failed, miserably at it.

Of course you have to file with the State, but the fact that a minister is even recognised as a valid witness is a point. Nor did you answer my arguments re: Sunday closing laws. Re: the Ontological Argument, we just went over that! It can't be used to argue that other things exist, because other things aren't infinite in scope, and perfect in nature.  There is always something that renders them, not great in some way. How dense can you get? If you people had brains you'd be dangerous.

The simple answer to the last question is, I don't know. I've never asked.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1432 on: November 04, 2014, 05:08:17 PM »
GARY, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You have managed to surpass Thork. Good move.

Finally, we agree on something.  Conflating correlation and causation is really stupid.  I wish you wouldn't do it so often.  It would help you to get along with others better.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1433 on: November 04, 2014, 05:29:36 PM »

Rama, until you can come up with an argument that can defeat the Ontological Argument, I advise shutting your yap.

millican.org/papers/2004OntArgMind.pdf

Quote
Since we're dealing with God here, the Ultimate Reality is that which is coherent.

Why?

Quote
My God, I just went through this in the LAST post! How dense is it possible for one group of people to be?! It can't possibly be that bad, can it?

Childish ad hominem, etc, etc...

Quote
The atheist cannot prove a negative. I, on the other hand, can give you strong reasons for believing that God exists, albeit not deductively certain ones.

No you can't, you can only give me flawed syllogisms and hopeful principles.  You have not offered anything in the way of proof that God empirically exists.

Quote
You cannot give me strong reasons for assuming that he does not. You've tried, in this and other threads, and failed, miserably at it.

It is not my job to even try and prove the negative.  The burden of proof lies on you as the positive claimant.  I just rebutted Anselm.  If you wanted to start making clear arguments about God as a prime mover or some such, I am happy to rebut those as well.

If you have to resort to claiming that your arguments are "obvious" or that I am "stupid", you obviously have lost the argument.

You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1434 on: November 04, 2014, 05:35:58 PM »
I can imagine a being greater than your God, therefore this being exists and your God is not a god.  Regarding the Sunday closing laws, they are the result of religious people overstepping their power by trying to police morals while infringing on constitutional freedom.  Just because religious people are voted into power and make religious based rules, doesn't mean America is a religious nation.  The fact that you don't need to be married by the church is proof enough.

Why have you never questioned that law about mixed thread?  It seems like such a silly rule to have to follow.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1435 on: November 04, 2014, 05:58:10 PM »

Rama, until you can come up with an argument that can defeat the Ontological Argument, I advise shutting your yap.

Quote
millican.org/papers/2004OntArgMind.pdf

I haven't got time to read 29 pages. Summarise, please.

Quote
Since we're dealing with God here, the Ultimate Reality is that which is coherent.

Why?

Quote
My God, I just went through this in the LAST post! How dense is it possible for one group of people to be?! It can't possibly be that bad, can it?

Childish ad hominem, etc, etc...

Quote
The atheist cannot prove a negative. I, on the other hand, can give you strong reasons for believing that God exists, albeit not deductively certain ones.

Quote
No you can't, you can only give me flawed syllogisms and hopeful principles.  You have not offered anything in the way of proof that God empirically exists.

Nor have you offered anything in the way of proof that he doesn't.


Quote
You cannot give me strong reasons for assuming that he does not. You've tried, in this and other threads, and failed, miserably at it.

Quote
It is not my job to even try and prove the negative.  The burden of proof lies on you as the positive claimant.  I just rebutted Anselm.  If you wanted to start making clear arguments about God as a prime mover or some such, I am happy to rebut those as well.

It is indeed your job. Since atheism is in fact a new invention, and that mankind has, for the bulk of his history, been religious, it is the duty of those who would challenge that to give their reason why, especially given the horrific toll in lives that atheism has had on the world just in one century.

Quote
If you have to resort to claiming that your arguments are "obvious" or that I am "stupid", you obviously have lost the argument.

Telling you that you are stupid is not abusive. its a statement of fact. It in no way indicates losing anything. It is a statement of information.


I can imagine a being greater than your God, therefore this being exists and your God is not a god.  Regarding the Sunday closing laws, they are the result of religious people overstepping their power by trying to police morals while infringing on constitutional freedom.  Just because religious people are voted into power and make religious based rules, doesn't mean America is a religious nation.  The fact that you don't need to be married by the church is proof enough.

Why have you never questioned that law about mixed thread?  It seems like such a silly rule to have to follow.

Then by imagining a being greater than God, you have just imagined God. Brilliant deduction, Genius. In other words, the Sunday closing laws are indicative that the majority of people in the United States that elect the officials perceive the nation to be... come on now, you can get there... good for you!

Why would I question it? Its an irrelevant point at this time.




Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1436 on: November 04, 2014, 06:08:35 PM »
If you aren't willing to question the frivolous laws, then why would you even bother to question the major ones?  It's incredibly easy to question those small ones and should be easy to find the answer as to why.

The majority of voters vote in religious people, this doesn't mean America itself is religious and the constitution forbids America from being religious.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 06:18:56 PM by DuckDodgers »

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1437 on: November 04, 2014, 06:11:39 PM »
If you aren't willing to question the frivolous laws, then why would you even bother to question the major ones?  It's incredibly easy to question those small ones and should be easy to find the answer as to why.

The majority of voters vote in religious people, this doesn't mean America itself is religious and the contrition forbids America from being religious.

Well, tell Samuel Alito that. He just recently stated that the Court has the business of "favouring religion", I believe is how he put it. I'll leave that to you to worry about. I'll worry about the laws of Judaism, or rather, I won't worry about them either. I'm quite content. So, it sounds like you have a pesonal problem on both levels.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1438 on: November 04, 2014, 06:21:01 PM »
Well you did make the thread of "ask a jew" and yet you couldn't provide an answer to a very simple question, you just blindly follow that rule without a second thought.

What happens to a Jew if they knowingly wear mixed threads and do not seek forgiveness?

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #1439 on: November 04, 2014, 06:26:17 PM »
Alright, so you didn't bite for the whole Moon business, but here's another one.

So according to genesis God created the universe in 6 days. On the first day he creates light (without a Sun since he makes that on the 4th day, mind you) and darkness (1:3).  On the second day, God creates a solid roof to separate the waters from the heavens which is called the Firmament (1:6). On the third day, God created plants by letting "the Earth bring forth" the plants instead of just zapping them into existence (1:11). Now at this point God says something like "yeah, this is good" (1:12). He's pleased with his creation thus far, so afterwards on the 4th day he creates "two great lights" which are the Sun and Moon (1:14 yes, still lumping the Moon in as a light because that's what is insinuated). There are a few days left (mostly he makes stars and some other shit) but I'm going to skip those because they're irrelevant to my point.

How did the Earth produce any plants without Sunlight? God created plant life on the third day, and then on the 4th day he created the Sun and Moon. Notice how the Bible says "let's the Earth bring forth" plants. These plants weren't just materialized by God, they were grown. Logically we'd have to assume that these growing plants used the process of photosynthesis, but that would have been impossible without the Sun to help them.

And keep in mind that God "saw that it was good", despite the fact that he didn't even create things in the right order. He created life before the sun and moon were created, which is absurd because without the sun life could not exist on Earth. God is a moron.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 06:32:41 PM by Vauxhall »