Re: Google Maps
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2018, 10:29:48 PM »
Claiming that something does not exist is a negative claim. It is the positive claims which must be verified. "Not" is the default. Who must provide the evidence in a discussion of "ghosts exist" versus "ghosts do not exist"? Those with the positive claim.

I do try to provide evidence for my positive claims. And I, and we, admit that the matter of navigation is beond our current power to entirely decipher with our resources available, just as you must admit that you are unable to explain and answer all questions which are poised to you on that matter.

What’s a question you have regarding this topic that hasn’t been answered?

This is a very vast topic. There is a lot.

The nature of the jet streams and the trade winds, for example. How were they measured and under what assumptions? There is a void of knowledge. Planes do use these on international flights and they do play a significant part. And they do travel in multiple directions in both the north and south, with common permanent streams of air. It is not enough to look at a map and see them moving with a number next to them. Doppler radar? Under what assumptions is that number derived from in the tools themselves? A spherical coordinate system of latitude and longitudes? Of particular weather models which interpret?

No claim or implication is made on what would be necessary for a Flat Earth for any particular model or layout. One would just like to know the answer.

This is just an example of the questions one would face when venturing to construct a map based on that kind of data. Many more like it.

Any answer given will just spawn 10 more on that topic, each of which will spawn 10 others, and one can see how the venture is fruitless. This is why this particular venture of creating a world model of all the earth is of low importance for me. Low resources, of available knowledge and manpower, are available to this society at this time. There are more tangible things to discuss.

There are those who do claim to know all answers here. And we ask to those who do: Tell us.
As someone who insists the world is flat it is strange that you show no interest in actually determining its shape to show that accepted data is actually wrong.  And you still fail to explain what resources you might require and how you would use them.

The answers are published for all to see and check, such as the path of the sun and measured distances.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 10:31:53 PM by inquisitive »

ShootingStar

Re: Google Maps
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2018, 10:36:21 PM »
Quote
This society is about the search for knowledge. What is a latitude? What is a longitude?

If I can put it simply Tom. Latitude is a measure in angular degrees, minutes and seconds of how far north or south a point on the Earths surface is relative to the equator. For example I live at a location that is 51.d degrees north of the equator.  This is also the same angle above the north horizon that I see Polaris.

Longitude is a measure of how far east or west a point on the Earths surface is relative to the Greenwich meridian. On the opposite side of the world we find the international date line.


Longitude lines are ALL great circles. Latitude lines are small circles with only the equator being a great circle since it has a centre marked by the centre of the Earth.

So there you go... you asked, I have answered your questions.  I do expect you to accept my answers?  No of course not.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 10:38:25 PM by ShootingStar »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2018, 10:56:05 PM »
As someone who insists the world is flat it is strange that you show no interest in actually determining its shape to show that accepted data is actually wrong.  And you still fail to explain what resources you might require and how you would use them.

The answers are published for all to see and check, such as the path of the sun and measured distances.

You are the person with the positive claim here, figuratively, with a device which you claim can detect ghosts. Prove it. It's your claim. We made no such claim. You came here, claiming things.

If, you cannot answer these questions, and cannot demonstrate clairvoyance on all questions poised to you, then you are obligated to submit and admit and declare ignorance on the matter. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2018, 10:58:25 PM »
Claiming that something does not exist is a negative claim. It is the positive claims which must be verified. "Not" is the default. Who must provide the evidence in a discussion of "ghosts exist" versus "ghosts do not exist"? Those with the positive claim.

I do try to provide evidence for my positive claims. And I, and we, admit that the matter of navigation is beond our current power to entirely decipher with our resources available, just as you must admit that you are unable to explain and answer all questions which are poised to you on that matter.

You are claiming our modern society exists without a map of this planet. Is that not a positive claim? Do you have evidence that such a society exists?
You have claimed that travel/navigation paths are top secret.  Is that not a positive claim? Do you have evidence that travel/navigation paths (or coordinates) are top secret?


I have made a positive claim. My positive claim is that anywhere from 90-99% of the earth has been mapped on a FLAT 2d map. I have provided evidence which supports my claim:

https://www.mapquest.com/
https://search.yahoo.com/search/?p=maps
http://suncalc.net/#/51.508,-0.125,2/2018.12.19/10:21

Did you even look at mapquest? Did you compare the mapquest data to the data you have in your street/neighborhood/zip code/county/state/country?


« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 11:02:46 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2018, 11:07:37 PM »
You are claiming our modern society exists without a map of this planet. Is that not a positive claim? Do you have evidence that such a society exists?

I don't believe that I said that. But that would be a negative claim.

Quote
You have claimed that travel/navigation paths are top secret.  Is that not a positive claim? Do you have evidence that travel/navigation paths (or coordinates) are top secret?

I did provide a source which stated that there were transformations that were not available to the public. You linked to it on page one of the thread. That is all of the information I have on the matter at present time.

Quote
I have made a positive claim. My positive claim is that anywhere from 90-99% of the earth has been mapped on a FLAT 2d map. I have provided evidence which supports my claim:

https://www.mapquest.com/
https://search.yahoo.com/search/?p=maps
http://suncalc.net/#/51.508,-0.125,2/2018.12.19/10:21

You would have to find someone who knows the truth of the round earth to help you on that matter. I find that those round arguments are often sub-par and do not intend on adopting those arguments.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 11:38:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2018, 12:01:22 AM »
All of the above are simply strawman arguments used to hide the underlying issue.  Can you take a database of spherical earth vectors (x, y, z) of known points, accurate to within a foot or two and convert them into an accurate flat earth map?  All the survey data is there for the taking.  You just have to have a usable flat earth map transform.  You can make a map, but it wouldn't be accurate or have any practical uses especially in the Southern hemisphere.  The flat earth paradigm isn't credible without a map that accurately represents the surface of the earth.  No accurate flat earth map = the earth isn't flat.  I would take any further obfuscations as evidence against the flat earth.

You can talk the talk, now can you walk the walk?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 12:03:57 AM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2018, 12:09:33 AM »
All of the above are simply strawman arguments used to hide the underlying issue.  Can you take a database of spherical earth vectors (x, y, z) of known points, accurate to within a foot or two and convert them into an accurate flat earth map?  All the survey data is there for the taking.  You just have to have a usable flat earth map transform.  You can make a map, but it wouldn't be accurate or have any practical uses especially in the Southern hemisphere.  The flat earth paradigm isn't credible without a map that accurately represents the surface of the earth.  No accurate flat earth map = the earth isn't flat.  I would take any further obfuscations as evidence against the flat earth.

You can talk the talk, now can you walk the walk?

Refer to the thread iampc linked on the first page, and the multitude of recent discussions we have had about this. There is no such round earth map model. Your statement appears false. The world models are using a bunch of small flat maps. And I am more than happy to copy and paste the contents of those threads here for you. It is you who need to demonstrate your paradigm for it to be credible.

These are your claims, and it is your burden to demonstrate your claims. I seek to demonstrate all of my claims. You came here with claims, undemonstrated, and therefore, disregarded.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 12:53:08 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2018, 12:50:17 AM »
Refer to the thread iampc linked on the first page, and the multitude of recent discussions we have had about this. There is no such round earth map model. Your statement appears false. The world models are using a bunch of small flat maps.

That's quite the claim. Are you referring to State Plane maps that have already been demonstrated to be based upon oblate spheroid datum with either a Mercator or Lambert Globe projection with an x/y grid placed on top of them? Those maps?
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2018, 12:52:38 AM »
Refer to the thread iampc linked on the first page, and the multitude of recent discussions we have had about this. There is no such round earth map model. Your statement appears false. The world models are using a bunch of small flat maps.

That's quite the claim. Are you referring to State Plane maps that have already been demonstrated to be based upon oblate spheroid datum with either a Mercator or Lambert Globe projection with an x/y grid placed on top of them? Those maps?

That is not a positive claim. That is a negative claim. One may even say that all human knowledge is false, with that statement being absolutely true. Negative claims are true by default. "Not" is the default. Ghosts do not exist by default. Any possible knowledge must be first demonstrated true, for it to be true.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2018, 12:56:55 AM »
You are just throwing out more strawman arguments.  You give me any two accurate coordinates on the earth and I will use spherical trigonometry to accurately tell you the distance between those points. Can you use flat plane trigonometry to do the same?  That will be a good test for you to demonstrate the accuracy of the flat earth paradigm.   

The fact that I'm alive and well is an ample demonstration that spherical trigonometry based upon globe earth maps work.  All the navigation on 100s of trips across the 7 seas of this earth were conducted using spherical trigonometric based navigation.  Just take a look at the American Practical Navigator for details.   Isn't that an adequate demonstration of my claims? 

If these claims are insufficient just what kind of demonstrations do you require?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 12:59:48 AM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

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Offline stack

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2018, 12:59:15 AM »
Refer to the thread iampc linked on the first page, and the multitude of recent discussions we have had about this. There is no such round earth map model. Your statement appears false. The world models are using a bunch of small flat maps.

That's quite the claim. Are you referring to State Plane maps that have already been demonstrated to be based upon oblate spheroid datum with either a Mercator or Lambert Globe projection with an x/y grid placed on top of them? Those maps?

That is not a positive claim. That is a negative claim. One may even say that all human knowledge is false, with that statement being absolutely true. Negative claims are true by default. "Not" is the default. Ghosts do not exist by default. Any possible knowledge must be first demonstrated true, for it to be true.

There is no such thing as a flat earth model, a flat earth map or a flat earth. So I guess that is a true statement, by default.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2018, 01:04:46 AM »
Refer to the thread iampc linked on the first page, and the multitude of recent discussions we have had about this. There is no such round earth map model. Your statement appears false. The world models are using a bunch of small flat maps.

That's quite the claim. Are you referring to State Plane maps that have already been demonstrated to be based upon oblate spheroid datum with either a Mercator or Lambert Globe projection with an x/y grid placed on top of them? Those maps?

That is not a positive claim. That is a negative claim. One may even say that all human knowledge is false, with that statement being absolutely true. Negative claims are true by default. "Not" is the default. Ghosts do not exist by default. Any possible knowledge must be first demonstrated true, for it to be true.

There is no such thing as a flat earth model, a flat earth map or a flat earth. So I guess that is a true statement, by default.

Correct. All negative statements are true by default. Only until evidence is presented, does a matter have veracity.

This is the base message of Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham, of the Zetetic Philosophy. It is under this keen eye which our truth must be demonstrated.

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Offline stack

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2018, 01:19:36 AM »
Refer to the thread iampc linked on the first page, and the multitude of recent discussions we have had about this. There is no such round earth map model. Your statement appears false. The world models are using a bunch of small flat maps.

That's quite the claim. Are you referring to State Plane maps that have already been demonstrated to be based upon oblate spheroid datum with either a Mercator or Lambert Globe projection with an x/y grid placed on top of them? Those maps?

That is not a positive claim. That is a negative claim. One may even say that all human knowledge is false, with that statement being absolutely true. Negative claims are true by default. "Not" is the default. Ghosts do not exist by default. Any possible knowledge must be first demonstrated true, for it to be true.

There is no such thing as a flat earth model, a flat earth map or a flat earth. So I guess that is a true statement, by default.

Correct. All negative statements are true by default. Only until evidence is presented, does a matter have veracity.

This is the base message of Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham, of the Zetetic Philosophy. It is under this keen eye which our truth must be demonstrated.

It's the semantic message of ENAG. You're dodging and not addressing the OP or the larger issue.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2018, 01:27:40 AM »
It's the semantic message of ENAG. You're dodging and not addressing the OP or the larger issue.

It addresses the OP and all issues. If you profess to know something, that the Google Maps shows a spherical earth, for example, show it. It's not true until one shows it.

iampc provided the points against the OP's assertion, a link to a previous thread on the subject, and I came in provided more insight to that. What more are we to discuss here, truly?

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2018, 01:31:37 AM »
It's the semantic message of ENAG. You're dodging and not addressing the OP or the larger issue.

It addresses the OP and all issues. If you profess to know something, that the Google Maps shows a spherical earth, for example, show it. It's not true until one shows it.

Google maps, there, showed it. True or not?

Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2018, 01:41:06 AM »
That looks like a spherical earth to me. I agree.

Next, I believe the OP was also questioning how it relates to the earth, and how that model works. In previous threads we did talk about that. A spherical geographical system using flat maps beneath, as iampc referenced on page one. Workings of this spherical model is a deeper question, and would take much more research for team ball to demonstrate their claim. You know our arguments, already, as you have been involved in multiple discussions on this matter.

If, you have forgotten the discussions, or, if that link isn't working for you, I am more than happy to paste all content here for you or any curious person.

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Offline stack

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2018, 01:47:05 AM »
That looks like a spherical earth to me. I agree.

Next, I believe the OP was also questioning how it relates to the earth, and how that model works. In previous threads we did talk about that. A spherical geographical system using flat maps beneath, as iampc referenced on page one. Workings of this spherical model is a deeper question, and would take much more research for team ball to demonstrate their claim. You know our arguments, already, as you have been involved in multiple discussions on this matter.

If, you have forgotten the discussions, or, if that link isn't working for you, I am more than happy to paste all content here for you or any curious person.

Actually the OP question was this:

"Does this mean then that FE believers don't use what is probably the worlds most used digital mapping system?"
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2018, 01:56:09 AM »
That looks like a spherical earth to me. I agree.

Next, I believe the OP was also questioning how it relates to the earth, and how that model works. In previous threads we did talk about that. A spherical geographical system using flat maps beneath, as iampc referenced on page one. Workings of this spherical model is a deeper question, and would take much more research for team ball to demonstrate their claim. You know our arguments, already, as you have been involved in multiple discussions on this matter.

If, you have forgotten the discussions, or, if that link isn't working for you, I am more than happy to paste all content here for you or any curious person.

Actually the OP question was this:

"Does this mean then that FE believers don't use what is probably the worlds most used digital mapping system?"

If that is the OP's question and only intent, and I had read far too into it, then my answer is that I use Google Maps every day.

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2018, 02:01:32 AM »
That looks like a spherical earth to me. I agree.

Next, I believe the OP was also questioning how it relates to the earth, and how that model works. In previous threads we did talk about that. A spherical geographical system using flat maps beneath, as iampc referenced on page one. Workings of this spherical model is a deeper question, and would take much more research for team ball to demonstrate their claim. You know our arguments, already, as you have been involved in multiple discussions on this matter.

If, you have forgotten the discussions, or, if that link isn't working for you, I am more than happy to paste all content here for you or any curious person.

Actually the OP question was this:

"Does this mean then that FE believers don't use what is probably the worlds most used digital mapping system?"

If that is the OPs question and only intent, and I had read far too into it, then my answer is that I use Google Maps every day.

And presumably, if you use it every day, it works for you. Yet it is based upon a spherical earth model. Regardless of the distances you travel while using it, it is a mapping system based upon the earth being a globe. How does that square when one holds the concept that the shape of the earth does not conform to a system that you use successfully every day?
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Maps
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2018, 03:08:46 AM »
That looks like a spherical earth to me. I agree.

Next, I believe the OP was also questioning how it relates to the earth, and how that model works. In previous threads we did talk about that. A spherical geographical system using flat maps beneath, as iampc referenced on page one. Workings of this spherical model is a deeper question, and would take much more research for team ball to demonstrate their claim. You know our arguments, already, as you have been involved in multiple discussions on this matter.

If, you have forgotten the discussions, or, if that link isn't working for you, I am more than happy to paste all content here for you or any curious person.

Actually the OP question was this:

"Does this mean then that FE believers don't use what is probably the worlds most used digital mapping system?"

If that is the OPs question and only intent, and I had read far too into it, then my answer is that I use Google Maps every day.

And presumably, if you use it every day, it works for you. Yet it is based upon a spherical earth model. Regardless of the distances you travel while using it, it is a mapping system based upon the earth being a globe. How does that square when one holds the concept that the shape of the earth does not conform to a system that you use successfully every day?

It pulls up the flat map for my area and projects the globe's coordinates upon it.