*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2018, 03:13:57 AM »
And works for you, the globe coordinates.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2018, 03:18:12 AM »
Transposed onto a planar map, yes.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2018, 03:33:36 AM »
Transposed onto a planar map, yes.

Transposed from a globe onto a planar map? As evidenced by all we have gone through already? If not, propose evidence that equates to a map not derived from a globe model used for modern navigation over long haul distances. Simple challenge: SFO to Tokyo, to make it easy, by plane, non-stop.

In FET show:

- Route to take on map of choice, your call.
- Distance traveled
- Duration of flight

Go.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2018, 03:42:58 AM »
We would need a copy of a piece of software such as ARCGIS to see the underlying flat maps used and those transformations, assuming all transformations exist for that situation. I don't have it. We have read about them already, and know that this is how it works. Future discovery on the matter, if interested, is up to you.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2018, 03:54:08 AM »
We would need a copy of a piece of software such as ARCGIS to see the underlying flat maps used and those transformations, assuming all transformations exist for that situation. I don't have it. We have read about them already, and know that this is how it works. Future discovery on the matter, if interested, is up to you.

Actually, you don't. Choose your FE model and just show the route from SFO to Tokyo. I don't need any ARCGIS maps to show you the route, therefore you shouldn't need them either. What's the FE route, SFO to Tokyo? It's a flight that occurs a dozen times per day. Simple as that.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2018, 04:06:19 AM »
We would need a copy of a piece of software such as ARCGIS to see the underlying flat maps used and those transformations, assuming all transformations exist for that situation. I don't have it. We have read about them already, and know that this is how it works. Future discovery on the matter, if interested, is up to you.

Actually, you don't. Choose your FE model and just show the route from SFO to Tokyo. I don't need any ARCGIS maps to show you the route, therefore you shouldn't need them either. What's the FE route, SFO to Tokyo? It's a flight that occurs a dozen times per day. Simple as that.

The answer is: ?

Lack of available research and resources. And, talking to the all knowing people here does not appear to be much help, as they cannot even explain something as simple as the trade winds and jetstreams and flight time padding.

What good is it to continue these discussions if they are of no benefit?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:09:39 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline RonJ

  • *
  • Posts: 509
  • ACTA NON VERBA
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2018, 04:13:30 AM »
Bobbing and weaving, jick'n & jiv'n as usual. 

Glad that ARCGIS was mentioned.  There is an open source version of a GIS package available for free if you do a little research.  You load the data into a Microsoft Access data base program and can then process it from there.  I've personally use Microsoft Access in combination with the C# language so I know that you could for free generate a flat earth map.  You would just come up with a flat earth transform between the coordinates in the GIS database and a flat earth one.  Yes, all the GIS data is based upon a spherical earth.  Any mapping effort could be somewhat accurate on a small scale.  Maps covering a larger area would become increasingly inaccurate.  That's not something that I made up.  That's just the mathematics speaking.  Math doesn't lie, people do. 

Flight time padding due to winds is just a strawman argument and has nothing to do with the basic map technology showing the actual distance between point A and point B.  If that can't be done accurately using the flat earth paradigm, then it's obviously flawed.  Rowbotham couldn't deal with it and I see you are unable to as well.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:21:37 AM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2018, 04:23:46 AM »
We would need a copy of a piece of software such as ARCGIS to see the underlying flat maps used and those transformations, assuming all transformations exist for that situation. I don't have it. We have read about them already, and know that this is how it works. Future discovery on the matter, if interested, is up to you.

Actually, you don't. Choose your FE model and just show the route from SFO to Tokyo. I don't need any ARCGIS maps to show you the route, therefore you shouldn't need them either. What's the FE route, SFO to Tokyo? It's a flight that occurs a dozen times per day. Simple as that.

The answer is: ?

Lack of available research and resources. And, talking to the all knowing people here does not appear to be much help, as they cannot even explain something as simple as the trade winds and jetstreams and flight time padding.

What good is it to continue these discussions if they are of no benefit?

I wasn't asking about flight times, tradewinds and jetstreams. Just the route. The path that thousands of people fly to and from take, SFO/Tokyo. A line across the earth. What is that line? Shouldn't be that hard. You don't need an ARCGIS map and all of the globe derivations to determine what the route is. All you have to do is draw a line on a map, maybe using photoshop or like, showing the path a plane takes 100's of times per year, with people on it, from SFO to Tokyo. Pick your FE model of choice. Just show the path and we'll see how it conforms to reality.

If you can't answer such a simple challenge, I'm afraid FE has no perspective and no Zetetic reality based realm to play in.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2018, 04:32:13 AM »
In order to make a map with multipe points we will need to know many more details about all flights and  routes and possibilities. If no one can share their knowledge of doppler radar, jet streams, flight time padding, coordinate systems, and the small flat maps, then there is nothing more to discuss on the matter.

We are asking for knowledge and getting none. What are we to do when our users lack knowledge to assist?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:40:04 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2018, 04:40:39 AM »
In order to make that map we will need to know many more details about all flights and  routes and possibilities. If no one can share their knowledge of doppler radar, jet streams, flight time padding, coordinate systems, and the small flat maps, then there is nothing more to discuss on the matter.

I am asking for knowledge and I am getting none.

No one has to share such "knowledge". You just simply have to show the route that planes take today from SFO to Tokyo on a flat earth. They happen a lot. I'm not asking you to make a world map, just show how that one route works. It's real, it happens and Zetetically, is observed by many. If you can't do that, then well, we have not a flat earth.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2018, 04:42:30 AM »
The logic is flawed. The other data is needed to know what polar projection or possible continetal layout to use.

If our users, who we ask for knowledge, have no knowledge, despite claiming that they do, then the creation of any map is the fault of their own.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:45:42 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline RonJ

  • *
  • Posts: 509
  • ACTA NON VERBA
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2018, 04:44:47 AM »
Jeeeez.  I was a commercial pilot myself for 30 years.  You don't need anything other than a simple distance between point A and point B to start.  Once you have the distance data from a map, THEN you can crank in all the other extra stuff that can have an effect on your flight times.  The most import thing for the flight, the distance between two airports, can't be gotten from a flat earth map.   

The question remains.......Can an accurate flat earth map be produced?  Failure to do so means the failure of FET.

ANY polar projection or continental layout would be acceptable.  Just the distances, please
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:48:52 AM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2018, 04:48:50 AM »
We are asking you, our users, for knowledge to explain, show and demonstrate the truth of all phenomena and mapping systems.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2018, 04:49:27 AM »
The logic is flawed. The other data is needed to know what polar projection or possible continetal layout to use.

From a map standpoint, it's clear what the globe projections are and if you're disputing, your claim being, that what we know of the continental layouts are incorrect, then you need to show how they are incorrect.

That aside, in FET, what is the route as asked? If you can't answer the question for a Zetetically observable scenario, then I'm afraid you're hiding behind funding, research, is unacceptable. These flights happen multiple times per day and people arrive where their ticket afforded them. No FE route, no FE.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2018, 04:52:07 AM »
The logic is flawed. The other data is needed to know what polar projection or possible continetal layout to use.

From a map standpoint, it's clear what the globe projections are and if you're disputing, your claim being, that what we know of the continental layouts are incorrect, then you need to show how they are incorrect.

Do I? You are making the positive claim of correctness. I, however, am not. Show these ghosts. Demonstrate.

*

Offline RonJ

  • *
  • Posts: 509
  • ACTA NON VERBA
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2018, 04:52:48 AM »
I've been on that route myself by sea.  The maps we used were the standard WGS84 charts.  Accuracy is good.  They are globe earth maps.  Where are the flat earth versions?
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5788
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2018, 04:53:30 AM »
I've been on that route myself by sea.  The maps we used were the standard WGS84 charts.  Accuracy is good.  They are globe earth maps.  Where are the flat earth versions?

WGS84. See previous discussions on the flat maps. It was demonstrated to use flat maps of the earth. Demonstrated. Unlike the hundreds of claims of our opponents.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 04:56:02 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline RonJ

  • *
  • Posts: 509
  • ACTA NON VERBA
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2018, 04:56:06 AM »
I have seen those discussions.  Everything is irrelevant here.  Globe earth maps work between point A and point B.  Where are the flat earth ones?   Simple question.
The maps are flat, the earth is not.  You can't use a curved map very easily on a ship. They just slide all over the place in heavy seas. This is an old question and is just another strawman argument. 
Spherical trigonometry is still valid on the WGS84 charts so they are based upon a spherical surface.  That has been demonstrated.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 05:02:15 AM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 682
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2018, 05:18:27 AM »
I've been on that route myself by sea.  The maps we used were the standard WGS84 charts.  Accuracy is good.  They are globe earth maps.  Where are the flat earth versions?

WGS84. See previous discussions on the flat maps. It was demonstrated to use flat maps of the earth. Demonstrated. Unlike the hundreds of claims of our opponents.

Correct, it WAS demonstrated to use flat maps of earth that are based upon a spherical model. How is that evidence lost on you?

Simple challenge: Draw the route of an SFO to Tokyo flight on any map of your choice.

*

Offline RonJ

  • *
  • Posts: 509
  • ACTA NON VERBA
    • View Profile
Re: Google Maps
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2018, 05:45:24 AM »
I just checked -- Jeppesen uses the WGS84 model based upon the standard earth spheroid.  It's been many years since I was actively engaged in commercial flying but I personally used the Jeppesen charts when I did.  They were always accurate.  Another point for the spherical earth model.  All maps are FLAT, but are projections of the actual spherical earth.  It's hard to have anything but a flat map hanging on a clip on your control wheel in an aircraft.  You need it there for reference during your final approach to the runway.  Accuracy is paramount.  The flat map argument is just another FET strawman argument. 

The globe earth model has been demonstrated to be an accurate in all important navigational respects.  How about the flat earth model?  Where are the accurate maps?  The data is available for free.  The Microsoft Access database program has been around for a long time and is available in the Microsoft Office package.  All that is needed is a flat earther who can come up with an accurate transform to convert spherical latitude & longitude to the flat earth model.  I fear that an accurate map is impossible.  Especially for the Southern hemisphere, any flat earth maps would be highly inaccurate.  Rowbotham's disciples could have a good time with them showing everyone just how flat the earth actually is.  Of course if you compared the actual earths landscape to the map there wouldn't be a high correlation.   

I'll go along with Stack....draw a SFO to Tokyo flat earth route and show that it's accurate.  I double dare ya.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 05:50:44 AM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.