As a person new to the flat earth community, I would like to know how many people in the community believe in other conspiracy theories, like the anti-vaxx movement?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2018, 03:28:18 PM »
I don't believe in conspiracy theories. There is enough disparaging evidence against NASA that it is merely factual informtion.

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2018, 01:02:14 AM »
I don't believe in conspiracy theories. There is enough disparaging evidence against NASA that it is merely factual informtion.

Such as?
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

Please PM me to explain sunsets.

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 01:35:08 AM »
I don't believe in conspiracy theories. There is enough disparaging evidence against NASA that it is merely factual informtion.

By definition, you do:

con·spir·a·cy the·o·ry
noun
noun: conspiracy theory; plural noun: conspiracy theories

    the theory that an event or phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties; spec. a belief that some covert but influential agency (typically political in motivation and oppressive in intent) is responsible for an unexplained event

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2018, 03:56:21 AM »
Now what are the definitions of theory and fact?

Theory: “Gravity is a force that attracts masses to each other”

Fact: “I held a ball at shoulder height, and when I released it, it met with the floor”

One is a theory and the other is a fact. The massive amount of evidence against NASA, in my opinion, leans more towards the fact side.

You can go on a weeks-long investigation for yourself, if curious on the matter. The resources are out there. I was asked on what I believed.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2018, 08:05:47 PM »
A fact is simply something which is true. Paris is the capital of France. That is a fact, Paris is defined as the capital. Beliefs don’t come into it, I can believe that Marseille is the capital of France but that doesn’t make it true. Someone believing that NASA are faking everything doesn’t make it a fact. Nor does believing that NASA are legitimate make that true of course but GPS works, Satellite TV works, Satellite phones work and so on. Rockets demonstrably lift off. Where do they go? Hundreds of people have now been to space, 7 of them were space tourists. There are weather satellites used by meteorologists, satellites taking regular pictures of the globe earth, lots of film from the ISS - an object which can be seen from earth.
To believe that there is a big cover up globally to pretend space travel is possible, fake all this footage from space, get all these people to lie about having been to space, make all this technology work in some other way other than satellites and fake a visible ISS somehow is a massive conspiracy theory. A lot of people would have to conspire to make all that happen. The only evidence I’ve seen for that conspiracy is a load of supposition and confirmation bias. But FE have to believe in this conspiracy because if space travel is real and satellites are orbiting the globe then clearly the earth cannot be flat.

As for a theory, the problem with that word is that in general use the word is used to mean a vague idea. In science though a theory is a model which explains observations and can predict the outcome of experiments. If those predictions fail then the theory should be amended or discarded.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 08:10:13 PM »
Someone believing that NASA are faking everything doesn’t make it a fact.

The evidence of NASA's fraud makes it a fact.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2018, 08:21:58 PM »
Someone believing that NASA are faking everything doesn’t make it a fact.

The evidence of NASA's fraud makes it a fact.
No, it doesn’t.

A fact is simply something which is true.
Something can be a fact even if not many people to believe it to be so and something can be false even though many people do believe it.

You may believe the evidence for a conspiracy is compelling but you believing that evidence doesn’t make it factual. My believing the opposite doesn’t make that a fact either of course but I’ve laid out at a high level the evidence for space travel and satellites being real, and NASA are far from the only space agency. The satellites which make my TV work were not launched by NASA and I know my dish is pointing at something because when a neighbour blocked the dish with some scaffolding I lost signal. I’ve also seen dishes in Sri Lanka which are pointing up at a steep angle which tallies with a geostationary satellite above the equator as is claimed.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 08:32:58 PM »
Have you, or anyone, gone through all evidence to show what is clearly fraud is not fraud? No. That has not been done. Therefore the evidence stands, and remains evidence of fraud.

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2018, 09:16:24 PM »
Have you, or anyone, gone through all evidence to show what is clearly fraud is not fraud? No. That has not been done. Therefore the evidence stands, and remains evidence of fraud.

"As of November 6, 2013, a total of 536 people from 38 countries have gone into space according to the FAI guideline (543 people have qualified when including the US Department of Defense classification). Of the 536, three people completed only a sub-orbital flight, 533 people reached Earth orbit, 24 traveled beyond low Earth orbit and 12 walked on the Moon.

Space travelers have spent over 29,000 man-days (or a cumulative total of over 77 years) in space including over 100 man-days of spacewalks."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_travelers_by_name

None of us are one of these folks. Therefore, it’s not a fact to you or me that they went to space or not as we did not personally go to space nor are part of a ruse to make it look like we did. Therefore, the legitimacy or lack thereof of space travel is a theory to us.

If you believe, based upon evidence, that none of these people have actually been to space then we are being lied to. And to perpetuate the lie, multiple people/entities are involved. That is what defines a conspiracy.

Based upon the definitions in our common language makes not believing that space travel has occurred a conspiracy theory. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But to say you don’t believe in a conspiracy theory when it actually is one is simply not an accurate statement.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2018, 01:25:31 AM »
Is the story of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg's conspiracy against the United States Government considered a "conspiracy theory," or is it considered a conspiracy fact?

It's conspiracy fact. Why is it fact? Because there was mounting unexplainable evidence against them to show it as fact.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 01:27:29 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2018, 01:45:40 AM »
Sorry, I fail to see the logic of comparing a convicted spy ring to anything relevant here.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2018, 02:44:39 AM »
It's entirely relevant. It's fact. Not theory.

The situation here is that you are attempting to dismiss evidence as "conspiracy theory". That is what it boils down to. Dismissal is the best counter-argument we can expect, understandably.

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2018, 03:34:04 AM »
It's entirely relevant. It's fact. Not theory.

The situation here is that you are attempting to dismiss evidence as "conspiracy theory". That is what it boils down to. Dismissal is the best counter-argument we can expect, understandably.

I am not dismissing anything. Your conspiracy theory is that space travel doesn’t exist is just as valid as my theory that it does. We both have evidence that we believe supports our positions, neither of which are fact without you or I being part of a faked or legitimate space mission. I’m not even calling into question what you deem as evidence for your belief. The fact of that matter is that your theory requires a conspiracy (of planetary proportions because we're not just talking about NASA here, but all space travel), hence the term ‘conspiracy theory'. It just is what it is.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 04:59:55 AM »
All the people in the Mars lander control room celebrating the 'successful' landing on Mars must all be in on the conspiracy.  You can see that most of them are sitting in front on a computer screen intently watching something.  Maybe NASA screens their applicants not so much on any scientific abilities but on acting abilities.  If the people in the control room really are scientists and actually think the data that they are seeing really is from Mars then NASA must really have another 'back' room somewhere that feeds the scientists fake data and pictures from Mars.  Who knows what is really true?  Who are the real conspirators?  No matter where the real conspiracy really happens to be the amount of effort must be tremendous and take countless employees located somewhere.  All of them must be kept quiet or the whole thing would be bust wide open.  Is it possible that North Korea could be the real source of the NASA control room data?  That actually makes a certain amount of sense.  Any North Korean who tried to 'spill the beans' would just be promptly shot.  The other possibility is that the control room data could be coming from one of the permanent outposts in Antarctica.  Of course the bottom line is that there's either a big NASA conspiracy to defraud the public or the Mars mission actually happened as described.  Which is fact and which is just theory?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 05:03:37 AM by RonJ »
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2018, 05:44:48 AM »
It's entirely relevant. It's fact. Not theory.

The situation here is that you are attempting to dismiss evidence as "conspiracy theory". That is what it boils down to. Dismissal is the best counter-argument we can expect, understandably.
It isn't the evidence that's being dismissed as "conspiracy theory".  It's your interpretation of the evidence and the conclusions that you draw that are being dismissed as "conspiracy theory".
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2018, 09:19:14 AM »
Is the story of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg's conspiracy against the United States Government considered a "conspiracy theory," or is it considered a conspiracy fact?

It's conspiracy fact. Why is it fact? Because there was mounting unexplainable evidence against them to show it as fact.
It is a fact they were tried and convicted and that means that it was shown beyond reasonable doubt that they were guilty.
So I guess that's pretty close to it being a fact.

Would the "evidence" against NASA or for a flat earth stand up to such scrutiny? You don't specify what evidence you are talking about but all the "evidence" I have seen has been baseless allegation and supposition. I've yet to hear about any evidence which would stand up to any scrutiny.

You seem to think NASA have the resources to pull off a conspiracy on this scale but are also incompetent enough to leave so much evidence of the conspiracy to make it obvious there is one. And, again, NASA are nowhere near the only space agency. They're the poster boys for space travel but lots of other agencies in lots of other countries would have to be in on it. The Russians and US would have to be colluding about the ISS, an object you can literally see from earth.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2018, 03:01:43 PM »
Is NASA guilty of murder?  Think about it.  If the space shuttle missions were all faked, then somehow all the shuttle mission crews must have been sequestered somewhere during the missions because obviously they couldn’t be at home while everyone thought they were in space.  The world witnessed the Columbia and Challenger disasters where the whole crew ‘died’.  If those NASA missions were faked, then either the whole crew on both those missions had to be murdered by NASA to enhance the conspiracy or at minimum somehow put into hiding somewhere.  I suppose that they all could have received some surgery to alter their appearance and moved to a hiding place somewhere else but then any contact with anyone outside the conspiracy would have to be prohibited. None of the astronauts could ever again be in contact with any family member who wasn’t an insider in the conspiracy. Maybe someday a company like 23andMe will discover something and bust the whole conspiracy wide open.  The other more obvious solution to the ‘problem’ would be that the NASA missions were all real. 
For FE no explanation is possible, for RE no explanation is necessary.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2018, 03:07:43 PM »
Is NASA guilty of murder?  Think about it.  If the space shuttle missions were all faked, then somehow all the shuttle mission crews must have been sequestered somewhere during the missions because obviously they couldn’t be at home while everyone thought they were in space.  The world witnessed the Columbia and Challenger disasters where the whole crew ‘died’.  If those NASA missions were faked, then either the whole crew on both those missions had to be murdered by NASA to enhance the conspiracy or at minimum somehow put into hiding somewhere.  I suppose that they all could have received some surgery to alter their appearance and moved to a hiding place somewhere else but then any contact with anyone outside the conspiracy would have to be prohibited. None of the astronauts could ever again be in contact with any family member who wasn’t an insider in the conspiracy. Maybe someday a company like 23andMe will discover something and bust the whole conspiracy wide open.  The other more obvious solution to the ‘problem’ would be that the NASA missions were all real.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8194.0

I think there's a wiki page on this too, but I can't recall for sure. But essentially think (poorly done) 'witness protection' for at least some members of the crew. This is honestly one of the weakest ideas to come from the space conspiracy in any way tbh.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2018, 04:04:28 PM »
It's entirely relevant. It's fact. Not theory.

The situation here is that you are attempting to dismiss evidence as "conspiracy theory". That is what it boils down to. Dismissal is the best counter-argument we can expect, understandably.
It isn't the evidence that's being dismissed as "conspiracy theory".  It's your interpretation of the evidence and the conclusions that you draw that are being dismissed as "conspiracy theory".

Make sure to communicate that when we have a thread about what you believe.

I rely on evidence-based information. If there are videos of NASA commiting fraud then those need to be explained and justified. If they are not explained then it is NASA committing fraud.

It's pretty simple.