[Roger G]

I've searched through the forums and looked at a few references to the Space shuttle generally, but can't find any explanations so am interested in the FE ideas about the last Columbia flight.

As the general FE position is that orbital space flight is impossible and the ISS is actually CGI generated, I wondered if I could get a few answers to some of these points:-

1) The mission with 7 astronauts on board was launched and according to NASA and other sources entered orbit and carried out experiments for 16 days, where did the shuttle go after launch?
2) If the mission was faked, where was the shuttle and crew during those 16 days?
3) What was the cause of the burning debris flying through the upper atmosphere caught on camera and radar exactly where the shuttle should have been on re-entry?
4) Where did the debris scattered over 2000 square miles of Texas come from?
5) If the flight was faked, where did the pieces of bodies recovered on the ground come from that matched the DNA of the Astronauts?.
6) If the crew weren't killed during the flight, when and why were they killed?

I look forward to some reasoned answers.

Roger

[Curious Squirrel]

I've searched through the forums and looked at a few references to the Space shuttle generally, but can't find any explanations so am interested in the FE ideas about the last Columbia flight.

As the general FE position is that orbital space flight is impossible and the ISS is actually CGI generated, I wondered if I could get a few answers to some of these points:-

1) The mission with 7 astronauts on board was launched and according to NASA and other sources entered orbit and carried out experiments for 16 days, where did the shuttle go after launch?
2) If the mission was faked, where was the shuttle and crew during those 16 days?
3) What was the cause of the burning debris flying through the upper atmosphere caught on camera and radar exactly where the shuttle should have been on re-entry?
4) Where did the debris scattered over 2000 square miles of Texas come from?
5) If the flight was faked, where did the pieces of bodies recovered on the ground come from that matched the DNA of the Astronauts?.
6) If the crew weren't killed during the flight, when and why were they killed?

I look forward to some reasoned answers.

Roger

As with all things conspiracy related there's bound to be a few different answers to each question. A video on this actually happened to be one of my first forays into NASA conspiracy. I'll do my best to post what I recall answers were from there, but I would be very curious to see if answers from the FE community match up with them at all.

1. Hidden on an island in the ocean somewhere. That particular video cited Caribbean as I recall.
2. See answer 1.
3. Controlled explosion of a shuttle like object created for this purpose.
4. See answer 3.
5. DNA match was faked as part of the conspiracy cover up. See answer 3 for where the debris came from.
6. They weren't killed but moved into witness protection style programs. I recall this video in particular having footage claiming to be of each of the astronauts moving about sometime after the supposed crash.

I might see if I can dig up the old video sometime, or one similar to it. Just because I remember the details rather well doesn't mean I'm gonna find it very easily, hehe. Also certainly curious to see if any of the FE crowd agree or disagree with any of this, and if they perhaps have their own favorite explanation and/or video for this one.

[Tom Bishop]

The Columbia incident was a prop failure and NASA covered it up, just like they did with the Challenger in the 1980's.

Look at this investigation from 2015 showing that astronauts of the 1986 Space Shuttle Challenger disaster are still alive. 1986 NASA was really sloppy and had the astronauts move to a new town and go into a new field of work, but let them keep their name or use a variation of it, allowing them to be looked up on the internet in 2015. They were clearly not aware of how powerful the internet would become at that time.

Look at these pictures and come to your own conclusion.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20170401131908/https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/04/30/are-the-crew-members-of-1986-space-shuttle-challenger-still-alive/









What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

[Tom Bishop]

Notice the upper lip of the Judith Resnik woman:



Also compare the voice and tone of the astronaut Judith Resnik and the professor Judith Resnik:

[Curious Squirrel]

What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.

[Tom Bishop]

What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.

Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.

[Rama Set]

Because the obvious thing to do when faking people’s death is allowing them to keep their name and get prominent jobs. Makes a ton of sense.

[Tom Bishop]

Because the obvious thing to do when faking people’s death is allowing them to keep their name and get prominent jobs. Makes a ton of sense.

Changing government records about their identity would involve convincing another federal agency to go in on their scam. Sounds dangerous.

The author of the article I linked says that when he was first researching this the astronauts were not even in the Social Security Death Index. An update is provided later in the year saying that after the doppleganger story went viral they mysteriously appeared in the SSDI.

[StinkyOne]

What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.

Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.

Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp

[Tom Bishop]

What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.

Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.

Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp

I've seen that page. Its proof is based solely on the incredulity of "why would NASA be so stupid?" and says that Judith Resnik looks nothing like the other Judith Resnik, which is false.

[Curious Squirrel]

What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.

Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.

So you and the video poster are attempting to claim. I was simply responding to your attempt to engender disbelief in something by pointing out it's far more common than one would suspect at first reflection. You're appealing to personal incredulity that there could be so many doppelganger with the same name. To which I pointed out it's actually a surprisingly common occurrence in contradiction.

But really, she's about the only one that you're going "Wow, look how close they are!" with much beyond a rather poor image that shows similarities, and not exact likenesses. So we're not talking long odds here.

What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.

Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.

Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp

I've seen that page. Its proof is based solely on the incredulity of "why would NASA be so stupid?" and says that Judith Resnik looks nothing like the other Judith Resnik, which is false.

I would note the image in the snopes article DOES have the two appearing quite dissimilar. As well each Astronaught has more than simply "why would they be so dumb?" backing up how the two cannot be the same person.

[StinkyOne]

What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.

Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.

Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp

I've seen that page. Its proof is based solely on the incredulity of "why would NASA be so stupid?" and says that Judith Resnik looks nothing like the other Judith Resnik, which is false.

Did ya read it, because that isn't true. Your proof is based on name and some resemblance in certain cases. (which is easily picked apart upon closer examination) Pathetic really.

I wonder how Judy Reznik managed to get rid of her jaw-line? They are NOT the same people.

Oh, and SSDI:

First of all, the SSDI is not comprehensive: That database indexes most - but not all — persons who have died since 1936, had a Social Security Number (SSN), and whose death has been reported to the Social Security Administration. More important, this claim about missing records is not true: entries for at least four of the Challenger crewmembers can easily be found in SSDI searches:

[Tom Bishop]

Did ya read it, because that isn't true. Your proof is based on name and some resemblance in certain cases. (which is easily picked apart upon closer examination) Pathetic really.

It's hard enough to find someone who looks exactly like you, let alone that person having the same name as you. Imagine how absurd that would be.

An identical facial tic puts the argument that it is a different person BEYOND the realm of absurdity.

Oh, and SSDI:

First of all, the SSDI is not comprehensive: That database indexes most - but not all — persons who have died since 1936, had a Social Security Number (SSN), and whose death has been reported to the Social Security Administration. More important, this claim about missing records is not true: entries for at least four of the Challenger crewmembers can easily be found in SSDI searches:

Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered up so much else.

[StinkyOne]

Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.

Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.

How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.

[Rama Set]

What are the chances of someone having a doppelganger with the same name?

A quick Google search later I would say apparently not bad, finding no less than a half dozen cases on the first page of results alone. All from within the past 5 years to boot.

Look at the buckle on the upper lip of the resnik woman in my previous post. Its more than just two people who look similarly.

Oh brother - Tom, the garbage you believe never ceases to amaze me. I think your only requirement is that it fits your narrative. You didn't do ANY homework on this.
https://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/challenger.asp

I've seen that page. Its proof is based solely on the incredulity of "why would NASA be so stupid?" and says that Judith Resnik looks nothing like the other Judith Resnik, which is false.

Incorrect. The proof is also based on showing that the doppelgängers were doing something other than being astronauts at the time of the challenger incident.

[Tom Bishop]

Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.

Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.

How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.

Look at that first guy, Commander Francis Richard Scobee. Astronaut Francis Richard Scobee is has a bachelors in aerospace engineering. CEO Richard Scobee has an MBA (his only degree listed, which is odd since you need a bachelors to get a masters) and apparently doesn't even list the year of his graduation for his MBA (maybe to hide that he did it later in life): https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-scobee-23875418/

He also has a little animation on his Cows in Trees website, which was there before 2015, which features a cow on a rocket spiraling out of control.

[TomInAustin]

Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.

Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.

How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.

Look at that first guy, Richard Scobee. Astronaut Richard Scobee is has a bachelors in aerospace engineering. This guy has an MBA (his only degree listed, which is odd since you need a bachelors to get a masters) and apparently doesn't even list the year of his graduation for his MBA (maybe to hide that he did it later in life): https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-scobee-23875418/

He also has a little animation on his Cows in Trees website, which was there before 2015, which features a cow on a rocket spiraling out of control.

Can you imagine what the nut cases have done to this poor guy?   Otherwise, it would be funny.

[StinkyOne]

Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered so much else.

Right...like supposedly killing off a bunch of astronauts would go unnoticed. The wishful thinking on your part is HILARIOUS.

How about the fact that these other people had lives PRIOR to the shuttle exploding? They received educations, had jobs. This is public record stuff. I suppose NASA created those, but couldn't hide the astronauts' identities. Take my advice, if you receive an email from a Nigerian prince, it is fake, too.

Look at that first guy, Richard Scobee. Astronaut Richard Scobee is has a bachelors in aerospace engineering. This guy has an MBA (his only degree listed, which is odd since you need a bachelors to get a masters) and apparently doesn't even list the year of his graduation for his MBA (maybe to hide that he did it later in life): https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-scobee-23875418/

He also has a little animation on his Cows in Trees website, which was there before 2015, which features a cow on a rocket spiraling out of control.

Holy crap, if only this guy had a Facebook page with his BS... Wait, HE DOES!
https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee

I'm sure there is literally no chance he knew his name was the same as the astronaut and had some fun (in poor taste) with his company's logo. Derp. Keep dreaming, Tom...

What about all the others??

[Curious Squirrel]

Did ya read it, because that isn't true. Your proof is based on name and some resemblance in certain cases. (which is easily picked apart upon closer examination) Pathetic really.

It's hard enough to find someone who looks exactly like you, let alone that person having the same name as you. Imagine how absurd that would be.

An identical facial tic puts the argument that it is a different person BEYOND the realm of absurdity.

As I've already attempted to point out, your appeal to personal incredulity is just that. A logical fallacy, as the first part is oddly common for something you claim to be so terribly uncommon. As for the second bit, we have been presented with two still images. I'd bet if I got you to say a certain word I could get you to show off that exact same 'facial tic' in a still frame. In other words, more evidence is needed for this particular claim.

Oh, and SSDI:

First of all, the SSDI is not comprehensive: That database indexes most - but not all — persons who have died since 1936, had a Social Security Number (SSN), and whose death has been reported to the Social Security Administration. More important, this claim about missing records is not true: entries for at least four of the Challenger crewmembers can easily be found in SSDI searches:

Snopes is skewing the story, as always. The author said that they didn't appear in the SSDI until later in the year, after the story went viral. Presumably the the government heard the alarm bells and rushed to cover their tracks, as they have covered up so much else.

Why should we believe the author? He's made mistakes in that very article, so what reason has he given us to trust those photo's aren't doctored, and that he's telling us the truth about this? Did you witness the missing SSDI's yourself? Then why are you blindly trusting his claim?

[Rama Set]

It’s yet another example of Tom’s doubke standard of evidence. He accepts something that agrees with his worldview readily, like this, Miles Mathis or Rowbotham; but scrutinizes well established sources as if they are homeless people shouting on the corner (e.g. his treatment of Euclidean geometry, NASA and the Cavendish experiment). Par for the course really.