Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2018, 04:37:43 PM »
It's entirely relevant. It's fact. Not theory.

The situation here is that you are attempting to dismiss evidence as "conspiracy theory". That is what it boils down to. Dismissal is the best counter-argument we can expect, understandably.
It isn't the evidence that's being dismissed as "conspiracy theory".  It's your interpretation of the evidence and the conclusions that you draw that are being dismissed as "conspiracy theory".

Make sure to communicate that when we have a thread about what you believe.

I rely on evidence-based information. If there are videos of NASA commiting fraud then those need to be explained and justified. If they are not explained then it is NASA committing fraud.

It's pretty simple.
This I think is where you step into 'conspiracy theory' territory. I've yet to see a 'NASA FRAUD!!!' video without a plausible explanation available either in the comments, or with a bit of research and/or common sense applied. Whether you accept those explanations is a whole other ballgame however. That's what sets apart the conspiracy theorist, from the space travel believer. The conspiracy theorist doesn't believe the explanations, and by virtue of the video being fake, believe there's a conspiracy happening. Regardless of if it's fact or fiction, as of right now believing NASA and the rest are faking space travel is believing there's a conspiracy going on. How does that NOT make it a conspiracy theory?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2018, 05:28:38 PM »
NASA is on trial. It is up to the public to decide on guilt. I've cast my vote. Many of those videos and exhibits are not reasonably explained.

I do not believe that I am engaging in a conspiracy theory any more than the jurors on the spy case thought they were engaging in a conspiracy theory.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2018, 07:04:47 PM »
NASA is on trial.
NASA is far from being "on trial" which is why it remains in the realm of "conspiracy theory."

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2018, 07:18:41 PM »
NASA is on trial.
NASA is far from being "on trial" which is why it remains in the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Of course they are on trial. If I post a video and you can't explain it, then it's evidence of NASA's fraudulence.

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Offline stack

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2018, 07:22:45 PM »
NASA is on trial.
NASA is far from being "on trial" which is why it remains in the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Have you disproven all videos and exhibits of NASA's fraudulence to say that they are unimpeachable?

I personally haven't seen any that are fraudulent.

And remember, NASA isn't the only agency on the planet engaged in space travel.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2018, 07:42:34 PM »
NASA is on trial.
NASA is far from being "on trial" which is why it remains in the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Of course they are on trial. If I post a video and you can't explain it, then it's evidence of NASA's fraudulence.
If you post a video that I can't explain, that's just you and me Internet-talking. That's not a trial.

The classic conspiracy theory is some rando posting videos or publishing newsletters trying to draw attention to a conspiracy.

And me (or anyone) not being able to explain it to your satisfaction doesn't validate it.

The issue isn't the "conspiracy" part, right? True, false or just allegation, it's still "conspiracy" if something is being covered up.

The issue for you, it seems, is the "theory" part. You want it not to be seen as "theory" but proven fact. Sorry. It ain't. You can be as personally convinced and certain as you want to be, and YOU may believe NASA is "on trial." But you're on the margins. Disbelieving in NASA, and space exploration and exploitation in general whether NASA or not, is squarely in the bulls-eye of what is meant by "conspiracy theory."

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2018, 07:47:57 PM »
Quote from: Bobby
You want it not to be seen as "theory" but proven fact. Sorry. It ain't.

The OP of this thread was asking what I believed. I answered. We can wait for him to post a thread asking what you believe.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2018, 07:52:53 PM »
Quote from: Bobby
You want it not to be seen as "theory" but proven fact. Sorry. It ain't.

The OP of this thread was asking what I believed. I answered. We can wait for him to post a thread asking what you believe.
Exactly. What you believe.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2018, 07:58:55 PM »
NASA is on trial. It is up to the public to decide on guilt. I've cast my vote. Many of those videos and exhibits are not reasonably explained.
And yet you are in the tiny minority with this view. That doesn’t make you wrong of course but while a troubling %age of people believe the moon landings were faked I don’t think many people believe that the whole of space travel is. If the evidence is as clear as you claim why is your belief not more common?

Quote
I do not believe that I am engaging in a conspiracy theory any more than the jurors on the spy case thought they were engaging in a conspiracy theory.

You have a theory that a lot of people are conspiring to fake space travel. I really don’t know what else to call it.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2018, 01:48:43 AM »
NASA is on trial. It is up to the public to decide on guilt. I've cast my vote. Many of those videos and exhibits are not reasonably explained.
And yet you are in the tiny minority with this view. That doesn’t make you wrong of course but while a troubling %age of people believe the moon landings were faked I don’t think many people believe that the whole of space travel is. If the evidence is as clear as you claim why is your belief not more common?

Quote
I do not believe that I am engaging in a conspiracy theory any more than the jurors on the spy case thought they were engaging in a conspiracy theory.

You have a theory that a lot of people are conspiring to fake space travel. I really don’t know what else to call it.
There are 72 government space agencies, 14 with launch capability and numerous private spaceflight companies, many with orbital capability.
If they are claimed to all fake space missions I would assert that has to involve belief in a huge conspiracy.

Quote from: Wikipedia
List of government space agencies
As of 2018, 72 different government space agencies are in existence; 14 of those have launch capability. Six government space agencies—the China National Space Administration (CNSA), the European Space Agency (ESA), the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA), the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), and the Russian Federal Space Agency (RFSA or Roscosmos)—have full launch capabilities; these include the ability to launch and recover multiple satellites, deploy cryogenic rocket engines and operate extraterrestrial probes.
And in here is a List of private spaceflight companies, many with orbital capability and some with interplanetary capability.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2018, 02:21:38 AM »
Do you think that each of those companies independently created rocket technology from scratch?

Is it possible for a company to register more than one business name?

Do you think that the government doesn't care about letting the knowledge to build ICBM delivery systems out in the open for all to have?

Do you think that the Mexican Space Agency is a real space agency, that developed its own rocket technologies, and put its own astronauts up onto the ISS with its own vehicle systems, or, do you think that they merely contract with NASA contractors?

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2018, 02:45:09 AM »
Do you think that each of those companies each independently created rocket technology from scratch?
No, but much of the development was done in the USA, by Goddard, and in Germany,  long before NASA

Quote from: Tom Bishop
Is it possible for a company to register more than one business name?
That's quite irrelevant.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
Do you think that the government doesn't care about letting the knowledge to build ICBM delivery systems out in the open for all to have?
Don't you agree that it is quite possible for countries to develop their own rocket technologies? NASA were not the first to:
  • successfully launch a satellite,
  • have a man orbit the earth,
  • hard land on the moon,
  • fly-by the moon or
  • soft land successfully on the Moon
So stop pretending that the US Government and NASA has any control over the rest of the world.
Would NASA have control over the China National Space Administration (CNSA), the National Aerospace Development Administration of North Korea (DPRK NADA) or the Iranian Space Agency?
I don't think so. NASA is the largest agency but remember that it is also the National Aeronautics Administration with responsibility in that area too.
You Americans don't run the world!

Quote from: Tom Bishop
Do you think that the Mexican Space Agency is a real space agency, or do you think that they contract with NASA contractors?
That's quite irrelevant.

But your attempt to prove that NASA controls everything to do with space seems to verify that your think a worldwide conspiracy is involved.
I don't believe that NASA has this level of control and that believe that no such conspiracy is possible.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2018, 03:18:20 AM »
Do you think that the government doesn't care about letting the knowledge to build ICBM delivery systems out in the open for all to have?
I doubt that the government has much say in the matter any more.  About all they can do is to have the FAA try to regulate the industry as best they can.
https://www.amazon.com/Engineering-Liquid-Propellant-Progress-Astronautics-Aeronautics/dp/1563470136
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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2018, 07:41:55 AM »
NASA is on trial.
NASA is far from being "on trial" which is why it remains in the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Of course they are on trial. If I post a video and you can't explain it, then it's evidence of NASA's fraudulence.

Or maybe you're just ignorant of the science behind what's happening. There's more than one option.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2018, 09:32:21 PM »
NASA is on trial.
NASA is far from being "on trial" which is why it remains in the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Of course they are on trial. If I post a video and you can't explain it, then it's evidence of NASA's fraudulence.

Or maybe you're just ignorant of the science behind what's happening. There's more than one option.

Wouldn't you be the ignorant one in that situation?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 09:30:55 PM »
I rely on evidence-based information. If there are videos of NASA commiting fraud then those need to be explained and justified.

Best example of this evidence is ... what?
==============================
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Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2018, 05:54:59 AM »
NASA is on trial.
NASA is far from being "on trial" which is why it remains in the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Of course they are on trial. If I post a video and you can't explain it, then it's evidence of NASA's fraudulence.

Or maybe you're just ignorant of the science behind what's happening. There's more than one option.

Wouldn't you be the ignorant one in that situation?

And I'm freely willing to admit that. However, for you, anything that you can't explain is automatically PROOF that NASA is lying.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

Please PM me to explain sunsets.

Re: Flat earthers, how many of you believe in other conspiracy theories?
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2018, 08:53:49 AM »
NASA is on trial.
NASA is far from being "on trial" which is why it remains in the realm of "conspiracy theory."

Of course they are on trial. If I post a video and you can't explain it, then it's evidence of NASA's fraudulence.
Please post some peer reviewed videos.