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Offline Tumeni

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It's not all about NASA
« on: July 30, 2018, 08:10:01 AM »
Following on from a Suggestions and Concerns post where I was prompted to open a new thread;

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=10277.0

NASA's image is already tainted and questionable.

Why is it particularly about NASA?

Humankind had figured out the Earth was a globe long before NASA. NASA are now only a small player in a worldwide satellite and space launch industry. Look at this schedule, and count how many of the upcoming launches are NOT NASA launches....

https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/

NASA aren't the only ones involved. There are Russian, European, Japanese, weather satellites sending pictures of the globe
every 10 minutes or so. International agencies are involved in independent tracking of other orbital satellites. Some of these are independent operators, not Governmental space agencies.
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 08:37:47 AM »
NASA told the biggest and most ridiculous lie of them all. They told people that man had walked on the moon. Its the most outlandish, the most easily debunked and the most startling example of how big a lie they are willing to tell. It is such a big lie that it is listed as a major historical footnote. That's why NASA.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2018, 08:45:50 AM »
NASA told the biggest and most ridiculous lie of them all. They told people that man had walked on the moon. Its the most outlandish, the most easily debunked and the most startling example of how big a lie they are willing to tell. It is such a big lie that it is listed as a major historical footnote. That's why NASA.

Off-topic.

The topic is the shape of the Earth.

Even if, IF - IF - NASA had faked the whole Apollo programme, proof of that is still NOT a proof that they faked anything else, nor that they have actually lied about anything else.
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2018, 08:52:07 AM »
Off-topic.

???

You directly asked in the OP

Why is it particularly about NASA?

And I gave you a direct answer to the question YOU asked. Look at the thread title YOU chose!

It seems you are butthurt about not being allowed to discuss this in S&C having been told that was off-topic (which it was) and you are doing this out of gamesmanship, not to actually have a debate. But you are terrible at gamesmanship. The thread is all yours.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2018, 09:05:03 AM »
The topic is whether or not the Earth is a globe, and you're saying it's 'about NASA' because of your disbelief of the lunar landings, which are unconnected, except in a tangential sense, to the shape of the Earth. Fakery there is no proof of fakery elsewhere.


In S&C, it was specifically 'suggested' that I start a new thread, since my point of view was unwelcome there.

So I started a new thread.
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2018, 09:27:02 AM »
And you started that thread in 'FE Investigations', not 'FE theory' suggesting this thread is not about the shape of the earth, but about things loosely connected ... such as NASA's involvement in hoaxes.

You titled the thread about NASA, you asked why specifically NASA, and you received an answer telling you why exactly NASA.

But I think it obvious to all you aren't remotely interested in the topic at hand. You just wanted to remonstrate with someone to abuse the rules. That failed. This thread belongs to Thork now. And once it is in AR, the rest of the community will give their thoughts on how butt hurt you are. 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 09:29:56 AM by Baby Thork »
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2018, 09:33:24 AM »
Both of you need to re-evaluate your priorities.

Tumeni, starting threads on topics you want to discuss is really not that hard. Your thread does explicitly ask a question: "Why is it particularly about NASA?" It also contrasts it with the activities of other nations. Yes, you made a thread about NASA, and not about how you think the Earth is round.

Thork, you don't run a shadowy cabal of people who don't have to follow the rules. Your posts until then were fine, but the most recent one clearly doesn't belong here.

On a separate note: someone who's known to have lied is going to be much less trustworthy than someone who isn't. As such, even if you want to maintain a complete disconnect between supposed space missions, you can't just hand-wave them away.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 09:35:06 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2018, 09:35:40 AM »
Both of you need to re-evaluate your priorities.

Tumeni, starting threads on topics you want to discuss is really not that hard. Your thread does explicitly ask a question: "Why is it particularly about NASA?" It also contrasts it with the activities of other nations. Yes, you made a thread about NASA, and not about how you think the Earth is round.

Thork, you don't run a shadowy cabal of people who don't have to follow the rules. Your posts until then were fine, but the most recent one clearly doesn't belong here.
I reasoned at this stage an AR split had to have already been made. The OP has gone way off topic and isn't even interested in his own thread. He's only interested in proving a point about what is and isn't off-topic having been told off by you not 20 mins earlier for it. I shall leave this thread ... do as you will.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2018, 10:02:52 PM »
Following on from a Suggestions and Concerns post where I was prompted to open a new thread;

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=10277.0

NASA's image is already tainted and questionable.

Why is it particularly about NASA?

Humankind had figured out the Earth was a globe long before NASA. NASA are now only a small player in a worldwide satellite and space launch industry. Look at this schedule, and count how many of the upcoming launches are NOT NASA launches....

https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/

NASA aren't the only ones involved. There are Russian, European, Japanese, weather satellites sending pictures of the globe
every 10 minutes or so. International agencies are involved in independent tracking of other orbital satellites. Some of these are independent operators, not Governmental space agencies.

NASA has never launched a rocket or built a space ship. It's a group of contractors.

Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2018, 03:32:51 AM »
NASA has never launched a rocket or built a space ship. It's a group of contractors.
Where's the "like" button?
There's nothing more dangerous than an idea, if it's the only one you have. -Émile Chartier

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2018, 07:18:30 AM »
NASA has never launched a rocket or built a space ship. It's a group of contractors.

OK, and ... ??

Are you saying it's OK for all and sundry to claim "NASA lies about the shape of our Earth" (even though they are not a sole authority on this) and this is excused by claiming that NASA is not a single entity?

Or ... what?
==============================
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Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2018, 07:20:59 AM »
... someone who's known to have lied is going to be much less trustworthy than someone who isn't. As such, even if you want to maintain a complete disconnect between supposed space missions, you can't just hand-wave them away.

Are you explicitly saying that NASA is this someone? If so, how do you know they have lied?
==============================
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Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2018, 09:50:59 AM »
Are you explicitly saying that NASA is this someone? If so, how do you know they have lied?
That's entirely irrelevant to my point here. You said that even if NASA had lied, it doesn't mean they should be suspected of lying more than once. I propose that this is a naïve assertion.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2018, 11:16:48 AM »
This thread has gone a bit weird, the OP asks why the focus on NASA and the answers are "because they faked this, or lied about that" which
a) Is all supposition and
b) Is irrelevant to the OP.

The OP was making the point that even if NASA are faking everything, they are nowhere near the only space agency launching rockets.
And even if all space agencies are faking it, all that shows is that space travel is impossible and there is a global conspiracy to pretend that it is for...reasons.
Still doesn't mean the earth is flat, there are plenty of other ways of determining that it isn't, we figured out the shape of the earth thousands of years ago, long before we could fly let alone go into space.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline markjo

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2018, 01:09:30 PM »
... someone who's known to have lied is going to be much less trustworthy than someone who isn't. As such, even if you want to maintain a complete disconnect between supposed space missions, you can't just hand-wave them away.

Are you explicitly saying that NASA is this someone? If so, how do you know they have lied?
A better question might be "do you know of someone who has never lied about anything?"
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2018, 05:40:19 PM »
A better question might be "do you know of someone who has never lied about anything?"
That would be even worse than the original question. At least the original question didn't inject a deliberately flawed analogy.

To answer a hypothetical question that hasn't been markjo'd: Yes, I knew a fair few organisations who do not fabricate their very reasons for existence.

the OP asks why the focus on NASA and the answers are "because they faked this, or lied about that"
No. The OP asks why the focus is on NASA. The focus is not exclusively on NASA, so a reasonable human has to interpret that question in the only other possible way: "Why do you talk about NASA more than you do about other groups?" The answer to that question is given in the first sentence of the first response:

NASA told the biggest and most ridiculous lie of them all.

Why are they receiving the most flak? Because they've (supposedly) told the biggest lie. Whether or not they lied might be controversial to you, but the actual answer to the OP is just an exercise in stating the blatantly obvious. It is the resultant objections which are off-topic, given how the topic was stated.

Now, if the intention was to ask why we focus exclusively on NASA, then the answer becomes much simpler: "We don't. Next!"
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 05:47:01 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2018, 06:18:23 PM »
NASA has never launched a rocket or built a space ship. It's a group of contractors.

OK, and ... ??

Are you saying it's OK for all and sundry to claim "NASA lies about the shape of our Earth" (even though they are not a sole authority on this) and this is excused by claiming that NASA is not a single entity?

Or ... what?

Since NASA actually exists as multiple private entities, it pretty much invalidates your point that none of the entities on your site are NASA. SpaceX is a NASA contractor, and is seen to be putting up satellites for Argentina in your list. It may as well be NASA putting up satellites for Argentina.

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Offline markjo

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Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2018, 06:43:11 PM »
A better question might be "do you know of someone who has never lied about anything?"
That would be even worse than the original question. At least the original question didn't inject a deliberately flawed analogy.

To answer a hypothetical question that hasn't been markjo'd: Yes, I knew a fair few organisations who do not fabricate their very reasons for existence.
Would you care to elaborate on what "very reasons for existence" you believe that NASA fabricated? 
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2018, 05:57:30 AM »
Would you care to elaborate on what "very reasons for existence" you believe that NASA fabricated?

From the wiki...
Quote
There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort.

There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). The motto "Scientific exploration of new frontiers for all mankind" was nothing more than a front.
There's nothing more dangerous than an idea, if it's the only one you have. -Émile Chartier

Re: It's not all about NASA
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2018, 08:12:58 AM »
Why are they receiving the most flak? Because they've (supposedly) told the biggest lie. Whether or not they lied might be controversial to you, but the actual answer to the OP is just an exercise in stating the blatantly obvious. It is the resultant objections which are off-topic, given how the topic was stated.

Now, if the intention was to ask why we focus exclusively on NASA, then the answer becomes much simpler: "We don't. Next!"
I think that's fair enough. The focus does seem to be on NASA and their "lies", but I guess they are the poster boys for space travel so that makes sense.

In terms of their "biggest lie", someone else recently posted a couple of links one of which went through all the 3rd parties which were tracking the Apollo missions.
One of whom was Jodrell Bank who tracked both US and Russian missions during the space race:
http://www.jodrellbank.net/20-july-1969-lovell-telescope-tracked-eagle-lander-onto-surface-moon/
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.