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Offline JRowe

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On disrespectful posting
« on: July 29, 2018, 06:06:26 PM »
This isn't directed at anyone in particular, and is more concern than suggestion, but i wanted to say it because it's one of those topics that ruined the other site for me.

Why precisely should I give any respect to a sanctimonious, patronising, arrogant, dishonest poster?
Because the rules require you to do so, so long as you're posting in the upper fora, or at least to refrain from personal attacks. Pretty please and thank you.
i wouldn't consider much of what i said particularly disrespectful, save of course for the bit you quoted though i'd argue by then it was earned, but there's a certain imbalance there. Disrespect is measured by more than just word choice; personal attacks and descriptors can be a fine line. When someone baits to get a reaction, and succeed, the fault is at least partially on their shoulders too. if someone knowingly lies and misrepresents, and then caps it all off by not responding but rather complaining that you dared react to their condescension, that's more disrespectful as any f-bomb or snippy reaction.
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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2018, 06:58:57 PM »
You need to channel your inner Bishop. Do you ever see Tom losing it? And the fact he doesn't makes him absolutely bullet proof. As an FEr, the rabble all crave your attention. There are less of us. If one of them annoys you particularly, stop responding to that individual. Answer the other posts and deliberately leave theirs unanswered. It drives them crazy and eventually acts as a correctional tool. They will become more polite, because that's always better than being ignored.


If it helps, when some people are rude to me and I don't deserve it, I think of myself a little bit like a flat earth Jesus. And I forgive them, because they know not what they do. But I have a complex set of issues of my own ... its just whatever works for you.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 07:00:48 PM by Baby Thork »
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Offline JRowe

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2018, 12:18:25 AM »
You need to channel your inner Bishop. Do you ever see Tom losing it? And the fact he doesn't makes him absolutely bullet proof. As an FEr, the rabble all crave your attention. There are less of us. If one of them annoys you particularly, stop responding to that individual. Answer the other posts and deliberately leave theirs unanswered. It drives them crazy and eventually acts as a correctional tool. They will become more polite, because that's always better than being ignored.
I've tried that, it's never worked in my experience. They just hound you and insist the fact they were so annoying that you had to block them counts as a victory, and they spam questions that they know aren't going to be answered in order to play up that angle. Roundies always play the crowd rather than debate, it's what makes a lot of them obnoxious to deal with, as I'm sure you've realised.
I've never had one act better after being blocked, just because they still have nothing to lose when they're being ignored, they get their usual faux-victory.
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Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2018, 12:35:03 AM »
Nope. They don't get a victory unless you acknowledge their objections.

Sure, some are very annoying. My personal pet hate is every time you post an explanation you get a one line "you don't understand such and such" ... which is particularly annoying because a) I probably do, and b) they haven't provided a counter-argument.  But that isn't a win for them. If my explanation is on the board, and they haven't provided one ... its not me left wanting.

I know it can feel like you may be losing because you posted something and 6 people disagreed ... but if none of them posted a proper rebuttal ... f-them. Its not your turn to provide more debate. The ball is still in their court and you can wait until they hit it back to you. And if they don't ... go find another thread and that one will get buried. Eventually they all get buried.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 08:32:24 AM by Baby Thork »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2018, 02:59:46 AM »
I welcome the criticism, because it helps to strengthen models or clear up certain concepts. I want them to swarm with questions. I pick out the most interesting ones I feel that are stronger and use it to address in the wiki or as future notes for a book.

The threads themselves are worthless, and will eventually die. It doesn't really matter what course they take. They will always get buried, useful only to future Flat Earth investigators to piece things together. No one goes around searching on old forum posts for arguments that the earth is round; just the opposite.

Who gives a flip about some discussion? They are only useful because hundreds of people seem to want to spend countless hours researching for me.

What is more important and interesting than these discussions is that truth is on our side. The experiments are on our side -- from Rowbotham to Blount to the many Youtube experiments. NASA's image is already tainted and questionable.

The thing that may be difficult to grasp is that most of the RE regulars are actually  are closet Flat Earthers. Markjo is one such example. When all of the Flat Earthers disappear he starts arguing in favor of a Flat Earth and answering questions when left to his own devices. Then when the non-closeted Flat Earthers appear on the forums again he flips and argues with them again.

The only reason why they argue so persistently is because FE'ers generally portray themselves as the experts who knows that the earth is flat. Anyone is going to argue with that, even other FE'ers on certain topics, if they had the bandwidth. Someone who claims to be an expert who knows that aliens have visited the earth will get the same treatment, even from people who believe that aliens have visited the earth themselves.

The RE regulars on this forum are interested in FE, and we have seen that many have admitted to arguing in favor of it with their friends and such. The debates are just a game for them to win something on an authority, and that is why I don't take put much stake into it. If Bill Nye The Science Guy himself made an account and started preaching about the "fact" of gravity, and if the FE regulars refrained from posting, everyone would try to take him down too.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 02:47:54 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2018, 07:00:48 AM »
You cannot claim experiments are on your side when you refuse to repeat them and ignore the simple use of measured distances to prove a shape.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2018, 07:59:49 AM »
NASA's image is already tainted and questionable.

Why is it particularly about NASA?

Humankind had figured out the Earth was a globe long before NASA. NASA are only a small player in a worldwide satellite and space launch industry. Look at this schedule, and count how many of the upcoming launches are NOT NASA launches....

https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2018, 08:01:03 AM »
inquisitive and Tumeni - you've stumbled your way into S&C, which is not here for you to discuss what you think about NASA or Tom. Stay on topic - if you want to discuss Tom's asides, create a thread in the appropriate board.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2018, 08:03:21 AM »
When someone baits to get a reaction, and succeed, the fault is at least partially on their shoulders too.

No, not when someone is asking in a spirit of genuine enquiry, but you don't realise it.

I think you're calling it baiting in order to play the victim.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2018, 08:04:16 AM »
inquisitive and Tumeni - you've stumbled your way into S&C, which is not here for you to discuss what you think about NASA or Tom. Stay on topic - if you want to discuss Tom's asides, create a thread in the appropriate board.

OK.

But why, why, why does Tom get to pepper the thread with his "asides" (plural, not just one aside) with no similar warning?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 08:12:57 AM by Tumeni »
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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 08:20:57 AM »
But why, why, why does Tom get to pepper the thread with his "asides" (plural, not just one aside) with no similar warning?
It's all about the balance of content. Tom's post is mostly on topic and includes a couple of sentences you're objecting to (which were clearly intended as supporting arguments to his main point). Your posts consist entirely of side points, and do not advance the discussion at hand in any meaningful way.

The recommendation is always to avoid posting content that does not contribute to the subject, but we can't police someone for throwing in a short digression, so long as the discussion remains on track.

Also, as a point of order: you didn't receive a warning. I just asked you both to get back on topic.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 08:23:15 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 10:42:53 AM »
This isn't directed at anyone in particular, and is more concern than suggestion, but i wanted to say it because it's one of those topics that ruined the other site for me.

Why precisely should I give any respect to a sanctimonious, patronising, arrogant, dishonest poster?
Because the rules require you to do so, so long as you're posting in the upper fora, or at least to refrain from personal attacks. Pretty please and thank you.
i wouldn't consider much of what i said particularly disrespectful, save of course for the bit you quoted though i'd argue by then it was earned, but there's a certain imbalance there. Disrespect is measured by more than just word choice; personal attacks and descriptors can be a fine line. When someone baits to get a reaction, and succeed, the fault is at least partially on their shoulders too. if someone knowingly lies and misrepresents, and then caps it all off by not responding but rather complaining that you dared react to their condescension, that's more disrespectful as any f-bomb or snippy reaction.

Your last response to me on the "is FET dangerous" thread was very rude and totally disrespectful.

I really did want to respond to you on pretty much evey point only for you to subequently spit the dummy by posting "What the actual fuck are you talking about"

By the sounds of your previous experiences (as above), you would surely realise that that sort of response instantly inflames things and puts up a wall in a sensible discussion. I was never rude to you.

(I was actually trying - albeit ineloquently I admit - to discuss the use of mathematics as a universal model as opposed to discounting the same Newtonian proofs which guide circular motion (in cars/planes and planetary motion etc). Yes reading it back, it wasn't my clearest post, but in no way warranted that reply.

Why is it not possible to debate this subject without people getting so obviously angry?

I am happy to carry on the thread if you are.
I'm here for a serious discussion to challenge the flat earth myth.
As an evidence-based scientist, many might disagree with me.

That does NOT mean I accept or tolerate abuse, trolling, abruptly ending a conversation because I ask a question you cannot answer and especially the use of pseudo-science, or other non-evidence based data or untestable theories (without at least offering a proposed method of experiment). Clear enough?

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Offline JRowe

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2018, 02:19:02 PM »
Why is it not possible to debate this subject without people getting so obviously angry?

I am happy to carry on the thread if you are.
I am perfectly capable of carrying on a calm conversation, but when someone describes a lot of utter nonsense that no one has ever said, expects everyone to just accept it, and on top of that is just generally condescending, patronising and arrogant, you don't get to play the innocent up against the big bad flat earther. Just read your own damn post and tell me it isn't condescending. Grow up.
I am not the one that decided to flee from discussion.

I hate those kinds of tactics. Debate, especially on a forum, is about the impression you give; we're here to raise the profile of FET, to have debate, to show it is a legitimate theory worth study. REers don't care about any of that, they're here for their own egos it seems a lot of the time, relying on cheap tricks and tactics that make them look good without any logical meaning.
Tumeni and Inquisitive spamming (answered) questions where they're not wanted, panicp loftily gracing someone that dared call him out with the offer of further discussion as though he wasn't the one that curtailed it, hypocrites all of them. They don't have logical debates, they play up their own appearances, bait and condescend and then act so above it all, they're tactcis meant tod ismiss people and encourage others to dismiss people, while not bothering with any scientific discussion.
My DE model explained here.
Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2018, 08:14:49 PM »
Why is it not possible to debate this subject without people getting so obviously angry?

I am happy to carry on the thread if you are.
I am perfectly capable of carrying on a calm conversation, but when someone describes a lot of utter nonsense that no one has ever said, expects everyone to just accept it, and on top of that is just generally condescending, patronising and arrogant, you don't get to play the innocent up against the big bad flat earther.

Is that your excuse for your rudeness? Nobody has called you a "big bad flat earther", but you seem to take it upon yourself to determine that every REer in conversation with you is automatically in the wrong on a number of levels.    

Just read your own damn post and tell me it isn't condescending. Grow up. I am not the one that decided to flee from discussion.

I disagree. The previous poster is not being condescending toward you.

I hate those kinds of tactics. Debate, especially on a forum, is about the impression you give; we're here to raise the profile of FET, to have debate, to show it is a legitimate theory worth study. REers don't care about any of that, they're here for their own egos it seems a lot of the time, relying on cheap tricks and tactics that make them look good without any logical meaning.

No, we merely disagree with you

Tumeni and Inquisitive spamming (answered) questions where they're not wanted, panicp loftily gracing someone that dared call him out with the offer of further discussion as though he wasn't the one that curtailed it, hypocrites all of them. They don't have logical debates, they play up their own appearances, bait and condescend and then act so above it all, they're tactcis meant tod ismiss people and encourage others to dismiss people, while not bothering with any scientific discussion.

This is all just school-level name-calling. Folks disagree with you. If you disagree with them, present your case clearly and succinctly, but don't dress up what others do as some nefarious scheme to "play up (their own) appearances, bait and condescend".

I (we) disagree with you.

That's it.

I (we) present our case, how about you present yours without all the drama, and show everyone that you can, after all, have a calm conversation without all the drama?
==============================
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Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

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Offline timterroo

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2018, 10:51:36 PM »
But why, why, why does Tom get to pepper the thread with his "asides" (plural, not just one aside) with no similar warning?
It's all about the balance of content. Tom's post is mostly on topic and includes a couple of sentences you're objecting to (which were clearly intended as supporting arguments to his main point). Your posts consist entirely of side points, and do not advance the discussion at hand in any meaningful way.

The recommendation is always to avoid posting content that does not contribute to the subject, but we can't police someone for throwing in a short digression, so long as the discussion remains on track.

Also, as a point of order: you didn't receive a warning. I just asked you both to get back on topic.

Hi Pete,

You sound like a decent guy when you're not posting in AR. I'm a noob, so I don't fully understand the social organization of this forum, but I feel that I owe you a thank you for pointing me (albeit insidiously, and sometimes blatently) in the right direction! I enjoy posting in AR because I feel it is a safe place to vent. Being an IT guy (yes, you were right about me), I have a lot to vent and often do so while at work! I will do my best to stay on topic and be respectful in the non AR forums. I truly do want stimulating conversation about controversial topics - whether I agree or not.

Cheers!
"noche te ipsum"

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2018, 11:23:58 PM »
But why, why, why does Tom get to pepper the thread with his "asides" (plural, not just one aside) with no similar warning?
It's all about the balance of content. Tom's post is mostly on topic and includes a couple of sentences you're objecting to (which were clearly intended as supporting arguments to his main point). Your posts consist entirely of side points, and do not advance the discussion at hand in any meaningful way.

The recommendation is always to avoid posting content that does not contribute to the subject, but we can't police someone for throwing in a short digression, so long as the discussion remains on track.

Also, as a point of order: you didn't receive a warning. I just asked you both to get back on topic.

Hi Pete,

You sound like a decent guy when you're not posting in AR. I'm a noob, so I don't fully understand the social organization of this forum, but I feel that I owe you a thank you for pointing me (albeit insidiously, and sometimes blatently) in the right direction! I enjoy posting in AR because I feel it is a safe place to vent. Being an IT guy (yes, you were right about me), I have a lot to vent and often do so while at work! I will do my best to stay on topic and be respectful in the non AR forums. I truly do want stimulating conversation about controversial topics - whether I agree or not.

Cheers!
Wait what? The system works?
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Offline timterroo

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2018, 12:51:31 AM »
Quote
Wait what? The system works?

Let's not get carried away ;)
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2018, 10:02:56 AM »
You sound like a decent guy when you're not posting in AR. I'm a noob, so I don't fully understand the social organization of this forum, but I feel that I owe you a thank you for pointing me (albeit insidiously, and sometimes blatently) in the right direction! I enjoy posting in AR because I feel it is a safe place to vent. Being an IT guy (yes, you were right about me), I have a lot to vent and often do so while at work! I will do my best to stay on topic and be respectful in the non AR forums. I truly do want stimulating conversation about controversial topics - whether I agree or not.
Hey, I'm glad to hear you're settling in! There's definitely an element of "acquired taste" to this forum, but I think most of us here wouldn't want it any other way :)

I look forward to endlessly reposting that Martrix post whenever I see you in AR.
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Offline timterroo

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Re: On disrespectful posting
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2018, 12:18:18 PM »
Quote
I look forward to endlessly reposting that Martrix post whenever I see you in AR.

LMAO!
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein