Recent Posts

71
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by markjo on June 03, 2025, 10:51:13 PM »
Just out of curiosity, wasn't Trump supposed to get tougher with drug dealers?
President Donald Trump has long called for escalating the U.S. drug war against Mexican cartels and wants tougher penalties for dealers selling fentanyl and other street drugs in American communities. “I am ready for it, the death penalty, if you deal drugs,” Trump said, during a meeting with state governors in February, where he said dealers are too often treated with a “slap on the wrist.”

But despite his tough rhetoric, Trump has sparked controversy by pardoning a growing number of convicted drug dealers, including this week’s move to grant clemency to Larry Hoover, age 74, who was serving multiple life sentences in federal prison for crimes linked to his role leading the Chicago-based Gangster Disciples.
72
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Physicist Brian Cox on Universal Acceleration
« Last post by Tom Bishop on June 01, 2025, 09:57:23 PM »
Quote from: Longtitube
If the surveyor was instead using a relative gravimeter, the latitude correction would also be made for the difference in latitude between Sacramento and Emigrant Gap, which is 42.9 nautical miles or 79.5km.

Your opinion is contradicted by your own sources. It's not only relative gravimeters where the results are corrected by latitude. The source you provided, 30 years of absolute gravity measurements in South America, said that the absolute gravimeter corrects for "the effect of the rotation of the Earth", which means all of it.

    The process is controlled by a computer that corrects the
    luni-solar attraction, the effect of rotation of the Earth,
    the ocean load and the barometric pressure, providing a
    final “g” value;

This paper below describes both absolute and relative gravimeters, and then goes on to say that "gravimeters do not give direct measurements of gravity". This means that neither kind of gravimeter is measuring gravity directly.

https://gogn.orkustofnun.is/unu-gtp-sc/UNU-GTP-SC-16-13.pdf

Quote
3.4 Measurements of gravity

There are two kinds of gravity meters. An absolute gravimeter measures the actual value of g by
measuring the speed of a falling mass using a laser beam. Although this meter achieves precisions of
0.01to 0.001 mGal (milliGals, or 1/1000 Gal), they are expensive, heavy, and bulky. A second type of
gravity meter measures relative changes in g between two locations, see Figure 6.

....

3.6 Reduction of data

Gravimeters do not give direct measurements of gravity; rather, a meter reading is taken which is then
multiplied by an instrumental calibration factor to produce a value of observed gravity (known as
gobs). The correction process is known as gravity data reduction or reduction to the geoid. The
various corrections that can be applied are the following.

This statement that gravimeters are not detecting gravity directly shows that you are incorrect. As you describe it, an absolute gravimeter should be detecting gravity in full. Instead, it is really analyzing the vibration of the mirrors while the falling object is disconnected from the device for a more accurate comparison. It is using the same seismic gravity phenomena as the other referenced gravimeter devices, not something completely different.

It is absolute because the body in freefall is disconnected and not vibrating with the device, allowing a better measurement.
73
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Physicist Brian Cox on Universal Acceleration
« Last post by Tom Bishop on June 01, 2025, 09:34:19 PM »
Quote from: Longtitube
Frankly, the wiki gets this bass ackwards. It also mentions a fictitious "vibrating gravity theory" – where did that derp come from?

That is expressly described in the Wiki. The gravimeter is a seismometer which is detecting "gravity waves". Immediately prior to the Corrections for Latitude section there is the section Gravity Wave Theory

Quote
Gravity Wave Theory

A study titled Seafloor Compliance Observed by Long-Period Pressure and Displacement Measurement uses gravimeters to study the gravity of the ocean. On p.2, para.4 its authors call the gravimeter a long-period seismometer.

  “ We have collected vertical compliance data using a gravimeter (long-period seismometer) and a differential pressure gauge ”

On the same page we read about the theory behind the measurements:



We see that the theory behind the measurements involve the theories of "Gravity Waves" and "Infragravity Waves". Wikipedia describes them as:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_wave

    “ In fluid dynamics, gravity waves are waves generated in a fluid medium or at the interface between two media when the force of gravity or buoyancy tries to restore equilibrium. An example of such an interface is that between the atmosphere and the ocean, which gives rise to wind waves.

    A gravity wave results when fluid is displaced from a position of equilibrium. The restoration of the fluid to equilibrium will produce a movement of the fluid back and forth, called a wave orbit.[1] Gravity waves on an air–sea interface of the ocean are called surface gravity waves or surface waves, while gravity waves that are within the body of the water (such as between parts of different densities) are called internal waves. Wind-generated waves on the water surface are examples of gravity waves, as are tsunamis and ocean tides. ”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infragravity_wave

    “ Infragravity waves are surface gravity waves with frequencies lower than the wind waves – consisting of both wind sea and swell – thus corresponding with the part of the wave spectrum lower than the frequencies directly generated by forcing through the wind.

    Infragravity waves are ocean surface gravity waves generated by ocean waves of shorter periods. The amplitude of infragravity waves is most relevant in shallow water, in particular along coastlines hit by high amplitude and long period wind waves and ocean swells. Wind waves and ocean swells are shorter, with typical dominant periods of 1 to 25 s. In contrast, the dominant period of infragravity waves is typically 80 to 300 s,[1] which is close to the typical periods of tsunamis, with which they share similar propagation properties including very fast celerities in deep water. This distinguishes infragravity waves from normal oceanic gravity waves, which are created by wind acting on the surface of the sea, and are slower than the generating wind. ”

Essentially, the "Gravity Waves" are slight motions and vibrations picked up by the gravimeter (seismometer). A chart is provided, showing the frequencies that the winds and tides appear in:



In line with the previous seismometer section, the tides appear on the low frequency bands.

This isn't the direct measurement of gravity that you want this to be. The unit of measurement is hertz (hz). These are tiny vibrations, hence the many references that gravimeters are seismometers and that seismometers can detect gravity.
74
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Physicist Brian Cox on Universal Acceleration
« Last post by Longtitube on June 01, 2025, 05:35:07 PM »
The Wiki covers that. See the section Corrections for Latitude.

The wiki covers this? Covers it in muddled thinking and errors, and anyone wanting to learn something about gravimetry and gravimeters should look elsewhere – even Wikipedia is a better choice.

Where to start? From the wiki, as quoted above:–

Quote
If the objective of gravity surveys is merely to look for deviations from a round earth reference model with the vibrating gravity theory, then the final computed number in meters per second squared would becomes meaningless for the purpose of discussion. Any modifications to the reference values are constructed on an entirely theoretical basis.

The above page tells us that there is a theoretical model and that the goal of gravity surveys is to modify that model.

Frankly, the wiki gets this bass ackwards. It also mentions a fictitious "vibrating gravity theory" – where did that derp come from?

First, the theoretical model, which has an equation (cited above) giving the theoretical value of gravitational acceleration at the geoid level for anywhere on Earth, accurate to one tenth of a mgal (milligal) – that's 0.00001 m/s². There is also a more elaborate equation which gives results accurate to a ten-thousandth of a mgal (0.0000001 m/s² – a thousand times more accurate) if needed. Pick your location, plug the latitude into the equation and you get a theoretical value for acceleration at geoid level (generally, but not always, equal to sea level).

Next, the gravity survey. Surveyors measure the acceleration directly with an absolute gravimeter, or the difference from a known, accurate measurement of gravitational acceleration with a relative gravimeter. Then there are corrections applied to the measured value, not the theoretical value. The theoretical value is for geoid level, but an absolute gravimeter measurement at Emigrant Gap, CA on Interstate 80, is at 1582m or 5190ft above sea level. Gravity does reduce with height, so a correction to give the expected value at geoid level is applied to the measurement – this is the Free Air correction. There is also a great deal of rock in those 1582m above the geoid and this is also corrected for – this is the Bouguer correction.

Let's say the surveyors are instead using a relative gravimeter and the known accurate measurement they are comparing with is at Sacramento, CA. A Latitude correction is applied to the Sacramento figure to account for the 42 minutes and 55 seconds difference in latitude between Sacramento and Emigrant Gap, because gravity does vary with latitude.

Note well – no corrections are applied to the theoretical value – all corrections are applied to the measured data. All these corrections are to give a measurement for gravitational acceleration corrected to geoid level, as if the surveyors were actually measuring at the theoretical geoid level, so comparisons can be made from other places, also corrected to the geoid level, making sure surveyors are comparing apples with apples, not coconuts with bananas.

The corrected, measured values are then compared with the theoretical values and the difference, if any, noted – this difference is the gravitational anomaly. Maps of the gravitational anomaly over a given area are used for many purposes, including oil and mineral prospecting, and are a valuable tool. The Nash dome in Texas was the first oil discovery made using an early type of gravimeter (in the 1920s) and many have followed since.

What's missing from the wiki, or any of the examples you've mentioned, are numbers: actual data and actual calculations. Do your vaguely expressed doubts stand up to examination? It's time to do some more calculations using a more reliable introductory guide.

https://gpg.geosci.xyz/content/gravity/gravity_introduction.html

The data reduction formulas are given on https://gpg.geosci.xyz/content/gravity/gravity_data.html

Let's use the Emigrant Gap site to start with. I'll assume the geoid coincides with sea level for these calculations and I'll use the suggested "crustal" density figure for Bouguer calculations. The Free Air correction is 0.3086 x 1582 = 488.2mgal, which is added to the measured figure. The Bouguer correction is 0.04191 x 1582 x 2.67 = 177.0mgal which is subtracted from the measured figure. The net adjustment is therefore 488.2 - 177.0 = +311.2mgal and would be applied to a measurement made by an absolute gravimeter.

If the surveyor was instead using a relative gravimeter, the latitude correction would also be made for the difference in latitude between Sacramento and Emigrant Gap, which is 42.9 nautical miles or 79.5km. Latitude of Sacramento is 38° 34' 54"N and Emigrant Gap is 39° 17' 49"N, so I'll use 39° as an average. Latitude correction is therefore 0.811 x sin(2x39) x 79.5 = 63.1mgal and this is subtracted from the measurement to directly compare with the Sacramento figure. The net adjustment for a relative gravimeter is therefore +311.2 - 63.1 = +248.1mgal.

The acceleration figure I found for Sacramento was 9.80033m/s², which is 980.033 Gal, or 980,033mgal, but an adjustment of 311.2 mgal (or 248.1mgal) is hardly significant compared to the headline figure, or the figures cited from around the world, but we'll have a look at the extremes of that range (9.772 to 9.829m/s²) to make sure. These were all made with absolute gravimeters, so we can ignore latitude corrections.

Quito in Ecuador is at 2850m above sea level. Free air correction is 0.3086 x 2850 = 879.5mgal. Bouguer correction is 0.04191 x 2850 x 2.67 = 318.9mgal. The net adjustment is +879.5 - 318.9 = +560.5mgal. The cited acceleration figure is 9.772 m/s², which is 977,200 mgal. 560.5mgal are pretty small beer next to the headline figure.

Thule Air Base in Greenland, now known as Pituffik Space Base, is at 76.5m above sea level. Free air correction is 0.3086 x 76.5 = 23.6mgal. Bouguer correction is 0.04191 x 76.5 x 2.67 = 8.56. Net correction is +23.6 - 8.56 = +15.04mgal. This is tiny in comparison to the cited 9.829 m/s² or 982,900mgal.

The cited gravitational acceleration figures are so many orders of magnitude larger than the corrections applied to their direct measurement that there is no justifiable hope the corrections might account for the differences across the world. An upwardly accelerating flat earth would still self-destruct in less than half a day.
75
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by Pete Svarrior on May 29, 2025, 08:49:22 AM »
If Russia wanted Kiev to be a hole in the ground, it would be a hole in the ground, even with non-nuclear munitions. There are missiles which have no defense.
That's how you turn Moscow into a hole in the ground btw
76
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by Lord Dave on May 29, 2025, 07:42:56 AM »
Russia is mobilizing and attacking areas beyond the breakaway regions to take out military assets, supply lines, or related infrastructure its opponent relies on such as power stations. They are only attempting to occupy it in the imaginations of leftists.

If Russia wanted Kiev to be a hole in the ground, it would be a hole in the ground, even with non-nuclear munitions. There are missiles which have no defense. Instead, Russia has been treating Ukraine with kiddie gloves. Putin knows that the government which took over Ukraine in 2004/2005 by force was an illegitimate CIA-backed coup. Prior to that Ukraine was a close ally of Russia, even entrusted for a time with nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union.

What has been happening is an elaborate war game between super powers. Ukraine is the victim, and its people never wanted its illegitimate government or to be involved in any of this  However, as valiantly as Russia has tried to contain the damage in the face of innumerable dirty tricks like staging military assets in empty schools for propaganda purposes, it may be too late and this may soon go too far. Trump told us that he is going to end the war and has finally released his plan.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14752757/Trump-seriously-considering-lifting-restrictions-Ukraine-fight-Russia-declaring-Putin-absolutely-crazy.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490



Trump is clearly not doing it to give Ukraine advantage, given his recent criticism of Zelensky and Ukraine. Once Ukraine starts launching long range missiles into Russia, that's it. The kiddie gloves will come off and Ukraine will be a wasteland.

Odd that the war has taken 3 years so far if Russia was being nice, throwing wave after wave of men to die when they could have ended it quickly.  And odd that they threw their old crap in first.

And odd that a people who despirately want to be Russian are fighting so hard to stop them.  Weird.

And why would Russia stop now?  Ukraine has been shooting missiles into Russia and blowing up military bases already.  Surely they'd have wiped out Ukrainian resistance by now with their superior, unstoppable, missiles... Right?


Man... You're trying too hard.
77
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by AATW on May 29, 2025, 05:50:37 AM »
78
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by Tom Bishop on May 28, 2025, 04:47:50 PM »
Russia is mobilizing and attacking areas beyond the breakaway regions to take out military assets, supply lines, or related infrastructure its opponent relies on such as power stations. They are only attempting to occupy it in the imaginations of leftists.

If Russia wanted Kiev to be a hole in the ground, it would be a hole in the ground, even with non-nuclear munitions. There are missiles which have no defense. Instead, Russia has been treating Ukraine with kiddie gloves. Putin knows that the government which took over Ukraine in 2004/2005 by force was an illegitimate CIA-backed coup. Prior to that Ukraine was a close ally of Russia, even entrusted for a time with nuclear weapons from the Soviet Union.

What has been happening is an elaborate war game between super powers. Ukraine is the victim, and its people never wanted its illegitimate government or to be involved in any of this  However, as valiantly as Russia has tried to contain the damage in the face of innumerable dirty tricks like staging military assets in empty schools for propaganda purposes, it may be too late and this may soon go too far. Trump told us that he is going to end the war and has finally released his plan.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14752757/Trump-seriously-considering-lifting-restrictions-Ukraine-fight-Russia-declaring-Putin-absolutely-crazy.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490



Trump is clearly not doing it to give Ukraine advantage, given his recent criticism of Zelensky and Ukraine. Once Ukraine starts launching long range missiles into Russia, that's it. The kiddie gloves will come off and Ukraine will be a wasteland.
79
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by DuncanDoenitz on May 27, 2025, 08:05:27 PM »
If Russia wanted Ukraine it would have had it in the early stages of the war. Russia wants to be ethical about it and so it is only taking the breakaway regions. It's not a coincidence that it's current territories are the areas which wanted to break away.

The disputed territories are in the southeast, which explains why Russia attacked from the southeast, but they simultaneously also invaded from northeast and from the northwest.  Launching from Belarus, russian forces advanced directly south; west of the Dniepro and hundreds of kilometers from their ethical objective.  Russian paratroops took the Antonov airport at Hostomel, roughly 30 km northwest of Kyiv. 

The only reason they are not there now is entirely down to military and logistical incompetence.  Within days, the Ukrainians handed their asses to them in a doggie-bag. 
80
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by Pete Svarrior on May 27, 2025, 06:34:39 PM »
If Russia wanted Ukraine it would have had it in the early stages of the war.
That doesn't track with their botched attempt at Kyiv.

Russia wants to be ethical about it and so it is only taking the breakaway regions.
That doesn't track with their botch- wait.