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This isn't really a debate topicAstutely observed. Treep is a fairly transparent troll who does not appear to be interested in debate.
I have much experience with the USSR reigion, having much family from and in the area, and having made numerous trips, and from what I can understand, along with some handy dandy googling, this is entirely an American and UK problem.Well, your experience directly contradicts mine. I'm not extremely familiar with their space conspiracy and Flat Earth groups, but we have been in contact before.
The modern day russia, who was the main power in the soviet union, considers the western flat earth movement idiotic.So do the United States, largely. Of course, that tide is turning in both countries.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/894517/Russia-Flat-Earth-space-conspiracy-theory-NASA-USA-Freddie-Flintoff-Mike-Hughes-newsOkay, so your argument is that one person called the movement idiotic and couldn't believe that anyone would be part of it. And your own source is quoted as saying "I am sorry to hear it’s echoing in Russia as well." It's almost as if you already found the evidence to prove yourself wrong!
https://sputniknews.com/science/201712191060146663-flat-earth-space-trolling-russia-iss/
There was Pickel who thought the holocaust was a fraud...She was an obvious troll. We get our share of those.
That's fair, but I'm on a Flat Earth forum so I can only base it on the people I encounter here.I don't know. However, I don't think that describing a large group of people by the actions of an individual is ever a good idea. Of course, it's a tempting one, and I've fallen into the trap of stereotyping many times before. My suggestion would be to treat individuals as individuals.
If this place isn't representative then where is?
J-Man and TomBut that's the thing. Those who assert things about "most FE'ers" (and who don't immediately jump to the "just watch some youtube videos" defence) seem to only be able to produce 1 or 2 names to back their claims. I propose that your sample size is woefully inadequate.
When I were a lad there was talk about moon bases and such and it all sounded very exciting. Hasn't happened. Nor has flying cars. [...]Don't get me wrong - I understand why this would happen in the Round Earth scenario. What I'm saying is that it's pointless to get excited about space-hotels or Elon Musk's BFR until it actually happens - because it is very likely that it won't actually happen. I'm especially sceptical of schemes that ask you to put forward $80,000 three years in advance - it reminds me of 419 scams just a tad too much.
Wow. Not a word about Russia.An interesting point (though please maintain the distinction between Russia and the Soviet Union), but not a particularly surprising one, given the fairly anglocentric nature of this society. I imagine Russian Flat Earth or space conspiracy movements might be able to assist you on that one.
SpaceX mediaYeah, yeah, NASA subcontractors are technically separate from NASA. How very exciting and relevant.
Even if total and utter fakery could be proved with respect to these missions, that has no bearing on the shape of the Earth, does it?This is incorrect - it has some bearing, and is most likely the source of the RE myth. I refer you back to the article.
Once the worlds rich are able to pop to space as once they popped to the south of France and a plethora of independent photo's start to circulate showing the true shape of earth I think it will heed an interesting time for this site and the others like it.The problem with that is that we've been presented with these beautiful promises for nearly a decade now. "Wow, look, this guy is doing stuff in space! As soon as he's done, wowie, that'll be great!" - followed by a few days of casual discussion and then... silence!
Because it's quite rare to find a FEer not entrenched in their position, to the exclusion of all else.I really don't think it is, knowing a fair number of FE'ers who remain very open-minded. We've already discussed this. If you go out of your way to find loons, you'll be surrounded by loons. If you approached the subject differently, your results would also change.
So you're admitting at least the possibility that it is real?Why does this question keep coming up? Yes. It is possible that the stream is real. It is possible that the Earth is round.
It's not that low of quality. 720p is pretty good.The resolution of the broadcast is not the only descriptor of quality. The image is heavily compressed and not particularly sharp.
It's also much simpler because it isn't hand-held by an astronaut, it's mounted onto the ISS.Of course, that would be the official reasoning. However, a stream so simple could be more easily faked. This is why the distinction between officially fake and officially real live streams is key.
How can you know, if you do know, that the official NASA live stream is fake?I do not claim to know one way or the other. I'm merely suggesting that it's not the irrefutable proof that newcomer RE'ers are looking for.
Not a question of dislike, merely disagreement.This was aimed at Obviously, specifically. I'd say his recent posts show a pretty clear distaste, mixed with some latent anger.
Funny, that seems to be EXACTLY the attitude displayed by Parallax, Bishop, et al ...Parallax is a complete newcomer, and one I haven't really seen much of. As such, I'll refrain from commenting. Tom, well, he's always gonna be Tom. We love him just the way he is.
What IS 'business as usual' here?Stay awhile and listen. When the peanut gallery calms down a bit, we should be able to go back to having relatively reasoned discussions. It's the atmosphere that's currently still mostly present in boards like PR&S or A&E - ones that don't get trollhammered quite so hard.
-- PROOF?The "Evidence for the Conspiracy" section follows shortly afterwards.
I think you're missing the fundamental issue. [...]The latter seems by and large identical to how most Flat Earthers operate, while the former is fairly rare, but easily observed among FE'ers and RE'ers alike. Granted, if you spend too much time looking at loonies on YouTube, you could probably develop a particularly bad opinion of either group. However, if you choose to interpret the world based on such broad generalisations, I would argue that it is you who's missing a fundamental issue.
Here's the live stream you're looking for:Yes, thank you, you have successfully identified the not-live-stream that's already linked in the OP, and which is accurately debunked in the BBC article. It is not the feed that you could on occasion correlate with a speck in the sky, which I also already provided.
So yes, it's not that hard to "tell the difference" and there is no way this live feed could be faked.And yet you failed to tell the difference. Hmm...
Yes, and also notice that there isn't a single RE-defender that after reading the wiki, the forums, or watching any of their highly-coveted bullshit youtube videos became convinced that the Earth is flat. Hmmm...That's a very strange observation. Look, I get you don't like us, but to just outright claim we don't exist... how rude!
[quoting me back]My apologies - I forgot that you guys will jump at even the smallest error in phrasing. Of course, I intended to remain consistent in my assertion that GPS doesn't work well in certain areas. I elaborated on this quite a lot, and so it should be rather easy to infer. But hey, congratulations, at the low-low cost of outing yourself as intellectually dishonest, you got one up on me.
And i offered my empirical evidence, or observations over the last 20+ years of using GPS at sea.That's okay. You are more than welcome to have your own opinion. It appears to be irreproducible, and thus I won't pay much attention to it, but I also won't try to convince you otherwise.
While we are at it, let's ditch cell phones all together. Let's focus on GPS devices in remote areas.Thanks. Geez, that took a struggle for you to concede.
your claim is mere opinion.Indeed. All I can offer you is my experience and empirical inquiry - and I care little for anything else. You are welcome to discard it carte blanche, but you'll achieve nothing other than stalling the conversation.
Would you mind telling us where, beyond the obvious non-line of sight to the sky, GPS doesn't work?No - I'm not interested in defending things I didn't claim in the first place.
You make a ridiculous claim, would love to see some data on it.I already provided an explanation of how positioning systems work in relatively populated areas. I can't help you "see" it any more than that.
Being proper flat earther of course decided to experiment to see what is was about.Your schtick is extremely transparent, as always. Nobody is questioning that GPS works in certain areas, and that it can, on occasion, be accurate.
Flat Earth or not I think we can all agree there is no device that will tell us our position more accurate that a gps deviceNo, we won't agree on that. I already named methods which are far more accurate in most contexts (and which, coincidentally, you keep using and misattributing to GPS - your iPhone 7 is a poor choice of equipment for this discussion).