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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Maths
« on: June 02, 2014, 02:09:00 AM »Your admission that you won't be doing (or can't do) these calculation is what I expected.But the calculation has already been done. What about this confuses you?
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Your admission that you won't be doing (or can't do) these calculation is what I expected.But the calculation has already been done. What about this confuses you?
I apologise, I should have taken your reading comprehension into account when formulating my answer. What I said was that I won't be repeating these calculations. Looking forward to the result would be a waste of your time.I'm not too bothered about going through that again.I'll look forward to your attempt.
How is that irrelevant? I never said you had to choose one of mine. Since when do you choose to answer questions about only models that you subscribe to anyway? Are you just dodging difficult questions again?I didn't say I only answer questions about models I subscribe to. I said that models you had me choose from in your blog post are not subscribed to.
I do agree, BTW, now that you've made you criticism clearer, I should have chosen "affect".I'm glad.
Let's try the OP another way: Given GR and its supporting theories and that the FE uses the UA to provide g in many cases, how much energy would the UA need to have accelerated the FE at approximately 9.8 m/s/s for a billion years? Then for the following day? How does that compare the the observed energy (excluding any inferred from the UA) in the FE? At your option you may round to one significant digit. Please show all your reasoning, math, references, and anything else that might help us understand the result. Thanks.I'm fairly sure we've done this in the past. The numbers were astronomically large and suggested that this energy would be completely unprecedented anywhere else. I'm not too bothered about going through that again.
Thank you for the reply. Let's start with our pedantic concern about my use of "effect" as a verb. [...]I didn't criticise you for using it as a verb, I criticised you for using the wrong verb. The definition you referenced makes it rather quite clear why:
verb (used with object)
10. to produce as an effect; bring about; accomplish; make happen: The new machines finally effected the transition to computerized accounting last spring.
Please verify: Do you claim that in your model the heavens interact with terrestrial objects and effect at least one terrestrial object in such a way as to explain some of the variation of g (in magnitude, direction, or both) it experiences near the FE's surface.
[...]
af·fect
verb \ə-ˈfekt, a-\
Definition of AFFECT
transitive verb
: to produce an effect upon: as
a : to produce a material influence upon or alteration in <paralysis affected his limbs>
b : to act upon (as a person or a person's mind or feelings) so as to produce a response : influence
Please clarify for us. Did you ask all people who might have at one time attempted the Cavendish experiment with bananas whether he (or she) ever once attempted it? Is there some other rationale for making the claim highlighted above?You promised to try and keep your pedantry in check! Of course, "everyone" in this context was referring to the small group of RE'er regulars this challenge was presented to on the old forum. "Everyone" is still very welcome to pick it up and change the current outcome, but as of now, it stands.
Please verify: Do you claim that in your model the heavens interact with terrestrial objects and affect at least one terrestrial object in such a way as to explain some of the variation of g (in magnitude, direction, or both) it experiences near the FE's surface. All terrestrial objects? At all times? Bananas?No, that is not what I claim.
Would you please publish, or point us to such a publication, that specifically measured the effect of your model's heavens on bananas. I would expect that the publication, if comprehensive, will include observations at various altitudes, latitudes, times of day, times of lunar month, days of solar year, and more.Whoah there, buddy. I'm not the one here who claims there's a magical force out there affecting (or effecting, aka resulting in) all matter. You'll have to ask Pleaseexplain for this kind of analysis.
Pizaa Planet: When you say Dark Energy, do you mean that there is obviously some energy causing UA, but you do not know what it is or how to detect it?That's a gross oversimplification, but it'll do.
In regards to your banana story, I am not sure what you are getting at. The Cavendish experiment is performed by university students regularly, with consistent results. Do bananas hold a particular interest for you?If all matter exerts gravitation, then this should be verifiable for any matter. I picked bananas because they're readily available and reasonably cheap.
Ah, but if the heavens do not influence r then why would they influence g?Well, yes, the existence of the heavens does not intrinsically influence your distance from the heavens. What about this is confusing?
But I have never heard anybody claim the heavens can influence r. I am curious, please explainNo one claimed the heavens can influence the distance between two objects, that's likely why you never heard such a claim being made.
It doesn't matter whether the deity IS a deity, actually exists or not.So if I proclaim myself a deity right now, regardless of the fact that I'm not one, insulting me would be blasphemous?
Well I'm glad you accept the ISS orbits the earth in a circular path, and as it has a centripetal acceleration of about 8.7ms^2, that would point towards a non UA. Now back to another point.Yes, the Round Earth model does not have UA. I'm glad we can agree on that. It's a bit worrisome that you try to extrapolate from that to the Flat Earth model, but oh well.
You claim that the variations seen in measured values of g are due to the "heavens". Can you explain where in g=-GM/r^2 the mass of stars, planets, moons, comets and general mass varies depending on the specific location where the measurements are taken?Sorry, I've asked you to do this already, since you're the one who claims this equation would prove or disprove anything in FET. Also, it doesn't have to be mass. It could be the distance, which varies with location pretty much by default. Please don't arbitrarily pick one variable out of two, especially if you're going to pick the wrong one.
You seem to think that the ISS is not accelerating towards the earth?No. Have you tried actually reading the thread I linked you to? And I already told you you got your r wrong, but I suppose that didn't come through, so I'll try again:
And just to clarify as it seems that centripetal acceleration is poorly understood. The calculated value of g for the ISS using g = -GM/r^2.Yes, I've already explained this to Gulliver in the appropriate thread (although your r is slightly too low, causing an inflated result, but you're still closer than Gulliver's 9.8m/s2, so all is forgiven). If you have anything to add to that thread, please post it there, not here.
r = radius from the centre of the earth to the ISS. The radius of the earth is about 6,371,000 m and the ISS orbits at about 370,000 m hence r = 6,741,000
M = mass of the earth, approx 5.97219 × 10^24 kg
G = 6.67 x 10^-11
Hence g (Of the ISS) = 8.77ms^2 or Nkg^-1
g = -GM/r^2Yes, some parts of physics are fundamentally different between models. You'd think that would be obvious, given that FET introduces a whole new concept of dark energy accelerating the Universe.
It's really as simple as a single equation. The inverse square law tells us that the gravitational force due to stars are completely negligible. Indeed the objects in the heavens as you describe it, have no impact on the calculated value of g.
It's interesting how you separate FE physics from RE physics. One of the principal rules of physics is that the laws of physics are the same regardless of location, yet on earth there's an exception?
Quite simply, everything with mass experiences a gravitational force.I have in the past asked people to show to me that bananas exert a gravitational force (I even suggested the Cavendish experiment when people started getting confused). Unfortunately, no one even attempted it. It is claimed that all bodies exert a gravitational force, and we quite simply disagree.
I think this can be summarised withAssumptions, assumptions, assumptions.
1. The earth has zero mass and is hence unaffected by gravity (Which would pull the earth into a sphere). With UA providing the acceleration of free fall.
2. The acceleration of free fall is affected by the gravitational force of stars.Almost. I'm not sure why you'd restrict yourself to just the stars. We're talking about the heavens.
How are both trueThey're not.
I'm so confused.sirTheMore is a Victorian industrial revolutionary gentleman (think Isambard Kindom Brunel, but with a moustache) who somehow ended up travelling to the 21st century. He also happens to hate Linux and free/open-source software, and sometimes gets very upset about it.
I'm sorry but the explanation for the UA is dark energy?Correct.
The heavens have a slight and uneven gravitational pull?Indeed.
But sticking with UA, you're saying the "heavens" have a gravitational pull. So you're saying gravity is true.Yes and no. Let's hope you don't jump into any rash conclu-
And therefore a flat earth contradicts everything we could know about gravity. What...sions. Right, you did jump to rash conclusions. Just because gravitation (not to be confused with gravity) is exerted by some bodies does not mean all bodies necessarily have to exert it.