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Messages - Tumeni

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: August 01, 2021, 08:39:34 AM »
Its so weird to watch conservatives jump and attack liberals with arguments that fit Trump.

"Biden hid in his basement"

Trump spent one-quarter of his term hiding at his golf clubs. He was invisible in the lame-duck period.

"Biden is cognitively challenged"

Trump simply makes up stories about his life. "Someone came up to me and said; "Sir ...". Hogwash. He was the POTUS, living in the Whitehouse. Nobody casually "Comes up to him" apart from his own staff and those with clearance.

... and so it goes on.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 30, 2021, 05:29:05 PM »
That will tell you whether or not the chord is 150km.

I believe the capsule was roughly above point X when Felix jumped. The first few seconds of his descent, from the camera above,
show him plummeting toward this point.

The camera in the arc photo appears to be aimed roughly North. The RH end of land feature A is slightly West of North from X, and is off-centre to the left in the photo, as is Fort Sumner (red dot), at the bend in the Pecos River where it bears West, and just in front of Felix's visor, having run North up to this point. This indicates a general Northerly aim of the camera.

The starting points for reference are A, A1 and A2. Their locations are determined by reference to distinctive land features.

A is the dark valley (?) just left of centre, and reference point A is roughly the centre of the RH 'ball end' of it.

Go left, and there's a distinct 6-dot pattern of light areas meeting the inverted "V" of a dark valley. A1 is the light patch to the left of this.

Above A is the "ridge with a V", and above this the dead-straight line of I-70. If we work right from A, there's an unclassified
road running North/South, a cluster forming an approximate V on its side, pointing right, an oval dark area, and a triple cluster of light ground at A2 with highway 42 to the right.

So the base edge of the photo frame, a rough line through A1, A and A2 is around 28km from the point directly under the camera. As per first and third photos above.

Point B in my original is the distinctive cluster of bends in the river, south of Fort Sumner, which is shown with a red dot above. Zoom out on the map a bit, and;

The second red dot, above Fort Sumner in the picture, but to North North West of it, is Turkey Mountains, West of the junction of I-25 and highway 120 at Wagon Mound. You can see the forest areas which broadly encircle it in the photo. The dark area of forest beyond it is, broadly speaking, Carson National Forest. On the map, with a purple line from Fort Sumner to Turkey Mountains;

(Original A/B/C line in green, line to LH edge of picture below that)

From maps

A to A1 is around 26km
A to A2 is around 26km to the highway

A to B is around 55km
A to Fort Sumner is 103km, measured to the Dallas Park Stadium, which seems fairly central in the town

A to Turkey Mountains is around 280km.
We can extend these lines beyond these targets to establish what would be at 706km distance, beyond these landmarks.

Taking a line from X to the leftmost edge of your arc would go through the top of the Cibola Forest, then Valles Caldera, and
the limit of 706km would be around Moab and Grand Junction, south-east of Salt Lake City.

If we extend the upper line through Turkey Mountains, 706km leads to a point just North of Aspen.

Add these two vectors to the large-scale map, and -

I reckon the angle between the two to be around 20 degrees out of the camera's FoV.

The complete circle with a radius of 706km would have a circumference of 360 degrees, length = 4,436 km

20 degrees out of 360 = (20/360)*4436 = 246km.

This tallies broadly with Google Earth's distance from Aspen to Moab, around 265km. Derivation of the width of this arc from landmarks and sightlines therefore tallies broadly with textbook distance.

I reckon the arc you described, from left of the frame to where it is obscured by the capsule, to be approx. 48 degrees of the camera's  FoV, therefore approx. 590km.  (48/20 * 246) If the left-hand sector is 20 degrees, as determined above, the right-hand one is, by visual estimation, around 28.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 29, 2021, 03:59:51 PM »
Well, you gave an FOV in your original submission, stating why water couldn't be seen. How large a radius did that reflect?"

No, I showed the limit of visibility from the camera and capsule, along the axis of the camera, not a Field of View.

The FoV across the picture depends on the focal length of the lens used, and I don't have that available. I know it was a GoPro, but without knowing which one...
I reckon, as stated above, the limit of visibility (from camera to that limit point, measured in a straight line from camera to surface) to be around 706km. The arc on the surface below this, and the chord below that, will be approximately the same, but will differ.

That will tell you whether or not the chord is 150km.

I don't see how you can calculate the arc/chord across the frame without knowing the angle covered by the camera across its FoV, or by reference to landmarks in the frame. I don't see that can be derived from the distance to the limit of visibility along the axis of the camera. If we had the camera FoV in degrees, we can calculate the arc/chord easily with simple geometry.

We can clearly see how the distances on the surface take up different lengths within the frame, depending on whether they are closer or further away.

Do you agree with the identification of landmarks and features so far, and the distances between them?

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 29, 2021, 09:15:13 AM »
I believe it to be roughly the same length because it appears to be the same length.

but you would agree, surely, that regardless of whether the scene is curved or flat, that things further from the camera appear proportionally smaller than those near to it?

A surface length of X km close to camera occupies more of the field of view than a similar X km far from the camera?

Example using height difference rather than length on the surface;

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 28, 2021, 05:15:06 PM »
The red line you have drawn is what I am referring to.

I believe the red line you drew is roughly the same length as the distance between A-C.

Can you tell us why? Have you identified any features or landmarks which would show the distance on the surface?

I think I have a few reference points, but I'm not complete on it. Later.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 28, 2021, 02:02:00 PM »
I am stating that if the distance you claim for A-C is 150km, the distance for the chord that could be drawn for intersecting the surface below the arc depicted in the picture would be approximately the same distance, rendering your analysis faulty.

Are you talking about the chord below the arc you described across the picture, like this;

... or the chord below my line A-C?

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 27, 2021, 04:40:58 PM »
So, you are claiming the arc I described is 150 km of the sphere, forming a 20 - 25 degree portion of the entire globe?

No, I'm showing the approx size of the spherical cap in total is 20-25 degrees, as I said, casually ESTIMATED from the images, but as I edited above, calculating it results in approx 12 degrees.

I have not assessed the arc you described. What landmarks do you see that would help us in this respect? Do you agree with the landmarks I have shown, and the approximate distances between them?

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 27, 2021, 03:24:30 PM »
So, you are claiming that nearly 180 arc of a 360 degree sphere only takes 150 km worth of land to form. If you are claiming a spherical cap can be visually detected

No, I'm not claiming that at all. The cameras upon the craft absolutely could not "see" 180 degrees of the globe, that's the whole point. The waters of the Pacific, Gulf of California, Gulf of Mexico, etc. are not in view because an observer at that height cannot see beyond the spherical cap below him, and the landmarks seen match up with the limited view of the spherical cap

I showed the circle over New Mexico which depicts the approximate size of the spherical cap.

I estimate from my diagrams that includes around around 20 - 25 degrees or so of latitude and longitude. Nowhere near 180.

EDIT - I overestimated - per AATW's method above, around 12 degrees

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 27, 2021, 08:09:48 AM »
Looking at the photo Action80 posted, we can cross-reference to maps and make out the salient geographical features;

Feature A is North-East of Roswell, between the 70 and the 380, North West of "Mescalero Sands North Dune OHV Area"

From there, we can find A1 and A2, then work out from there to see B, C, etc

The distance between points A and C is of the order of 150 km.

A1 to A2 is around 30 - 35km

Look at the circle around the launch site that I posted above, and you can see that the Carson Forest and associated darker greenery is around half to 2/3rd of the way toward the edge of the circle; which tallies with the view from the capsule. There's still some land visible to the horizon beyond point C.

By all means, if anyone sees any inconsistency in this, please say so.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 26, 2021, 11:50:58 PM »
The camera view from the red bull jump tried to depict the entirety of the US Portion of the NA Continent as occupying 100 percent portion of the arc on a nearly 90 percent cutaway of the sphere in the background.

Did anyone actually claim to be "trying" to do this, or is this just your claim? 

If you are able to see a sphere at the red bull apogee, where's the water?

First, I said nothing about being able to "see a sphere". I said that the various landmarks as seen from the craft clearly show a spherical cap consistent with the height of the craft, and the stated textbook size of a globe Earth. The maths of this is in the first part of AATW's post above

Just project upward along line h to place the craft above the surface.

The fact that we see no water is sorta the point. The water is out of view BECAUSE we're looking at a Spherical Cap

Taking the stated height of the craft, the extent of visibility is roughly this;

The water is out of visibility, because of the limits of the Spherical Cap.

One can look at the map, and establish landmarks which are within that circle, then spot them on the footage and photos. We can clearly see which are below the craft, and which are toward the extremity of the Spherical Cap. First, there's the distinctive land features near the launch site, as seen in google maps;

As seen from the craft, in stills I grabbed from the official video;

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 26, 2021, 04:05:17 PM »
Provide the math that backs up your specious claim you can see a curve at 35 km or higher.

My preferred maths involves calculating the maximum viewable distance on the surface for a spherical cap, the size of which is dictated by the observer height.

Ideally, in order to compare this with the footage, one needs cameras which provide a view all around the craft, so I'm not sure if this can be applied to Bezos/Branson flights, but I did consider this extensively for the Red Bull Space Jump, where Felix B free fell, then parachuted to the ground, having jumped out of the Red Bull capsule.

The method is simply to determine what range would be visible to the horizon, and compare that with visible landmarks on the ground. If the visibility of the landmarks matches the predicted visibility based on the spherical cap calculations, that would appear to confirm the presence of a sphere. 

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 23, 2021, 12:38:07 PM »
So the Nazi's just had to say "it was to save lives" and their forced medical experiments would be okay?

False equivalence.

Germany had invaded Poland first, and then other countries within Europe. There was a war on, with France, UK, and latterly the USA, all joining as allies to fight back the Germans, defend their own countries, and halt what the Germans were doing to the Jews and others.

None of that applies here and now.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 22, 2021, 08:09:02 PM »
The vaccines haven't been tested long term.

For blatantly obvious reasons. One of which was the loss of 600k American lives. Many others worldwide.

They are new, and involve never before deployed genetic programming which permanently reprograms our bodies to produce a substance it does not normally produce. How in the world is that not experimental?

It is not for the purpose of an experiment. It is to save lives.

It usually takes a long period of time to test drugs and vaccines: .... 10 to 15 years normally. Why is that? Because they don't want to give people things which might cause adverse effects down the line.

600k deaths in less than a year should make it clear to you that the standard 10 to 15 years were not available.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 22, 2021, 10:27:27 AM »
The repeated word/phrase in the code is experiment/experimentation.

Applying a vaccine to prevent the spread of a pandemic is not experimentation. It's a treatment.


"The Nuremberg Code (German: Nürnberger Kodex) is a set of research ethics principles for human experimentation created by the USA v Brandt court as one result of the Nuremberg trials at the end of the Second World War. In a review written on the 50th anniversary of the Brandt verdict, Katz writes that "a careful reading of the judgment suggests that" the authors wrote the Kodex "for the practice of human experimentation whenever it is being conducted.""

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 21, 2021, 11:10:31 PM »
Please familiarize yourself with the Nuremberg Code.

That's not what the New England Journal of Medicine think it's for.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 21, 2021, 11:01:32 PM »
The ISS or the Space Shuttle didn't have larger windows.

So you agree that the ISS and Shuttle have both been to space? Really?

Mexico City has had success with its cable-car system.

I think if, post-COVID, cities return to masses working in offices as opposed to from home, that a lot of cities could and should consider this. The support pylons have a small footprint, with little impact on the ground, both in terms of ground works and inconvenience to dwellers. No pollution, beyond the source electricity generation.

For particularly scenic cities, the tourist trade will help offset the build cost.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: VFX Artists React to the Moon Landing
« on: July 16, 2021, 10:49:08 PM »
You only have to look at the Apollo 11 conference to see that not one of the team had been to the moon.

... or, more likely, to see that they had just emerged from a three-week quarantine, and had not yet been with their families since leaving for the start of the mission.

They didn't mention the VABs even once during the conference when the belts are the No.1 NASA given reason why we can't get into deep space today.

Van Allen's instrumentation went into space on NASA rockets. The only reason you know the VABs are there is because of NASA, yet you cite them as if they prove some fakery on NASA's part.

Also, I think you're misquoting the "reason why we can't get into deep space" ... NASA has said that the Orion craft will need testing to ensure that its instrumentation will survive longer exposure than the Apollo craft had, but that's it.

Moore asks ; "could you see stars IN THE SOLAR CORONA"

The video author appears to miss the joke in Collins' response. ("I didn't see any") He was the only one not on the surface, and not doing the experiment concerned.

EDIT footnote

The astronauts said farewell to their families prior to mission start.

Mission start July 16, 1969, 13:32:00 UTC

Splashed down July 24, 1969, 16:50:35 UTC, transfer to quarantine trailer

Return to land, transfer to quarantine suite at NASA to begin three weeks of quarantine, until August 10

The press conference took place on August 12, long after the initial euphoria would have worn off

I think we can excuse them a little fatigue and weariness with the whole thing...

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: June 23, 2021, 08:05:59 AM »
The thing that gets me is that most of the Jan 6th rioters seem to be regular folks. Regular folks with a lot of disposable income, since a lot of them seem to have travelled from far and wide to get there.... but;

I don't get the impression that they thought they would storm the building, stop the process, then actually DO something. I get the impression they thought they would stop the process, then go back home, go back to work, and it would then be someone else's problem.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 14, 2021, 09:56:27 PM »
The Former Guy, looking "gaunt and pale" at Trump Tower, and still looking as though he's been sleeping in his suit....


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