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Messages - Dr David Thork

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1661
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Roles Reversed - seismology
« on: June 13, 2018, 06:41:53 PM »
why would the use of google be prohibited??
You can use google. It isn't going to help flat earthers though, is it?

"OK Google, how do s-waves work on a flat earth?"
See how many useful returns you get.

But for us 'round earthers' ....
"Explain s-waves"
About 165,000,000 results (1.00 seconds)

1662
Flat Earth Investigations / Roles Reversed - seismology
« on: June 13, 2018, 06:33:55 PM »
Read me
This is going to be an unusual thread. Just to mix things up, in it, the Flat Earthers on this site are going to argue the earth is round, and the round earthers have to show it is flat.

I'm going to pick a topic, make an OP ... and lets see how well all you round earthers do without google for help.
You have a 180 year old text book for help http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/index.htm
You have a wiki ... https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Flat_Earth_Wiki
You can use the site search function to find previous threads

Rules ...
You need to make a coherent argument ... you have to have a point to discuss and you need something to back your assertion ... something showing your point is valid
You need to die on that hill. If you get blown up, take it like a man and retire from the thread ... you lost
You are a team ... bail each other out and win at all costs. Don't leave a man behind
Squealing that you think the earth is round anyway so it doesn't matter is the ultimate dishonour. In this thread you think the earth is flat

This is an exercise in debating skill, problem solving and teamwork. FErs don't work alone. You don't want to be in that place either.

Depending on how much this was enjoyed, we can do it on a more regular basis with other topics but this one is about ...

The OP
It is my assertion that the earth can be shown to be round, comparing the difference between P-Waves and S-waves during an earthquake.

Both types of seismic wave can be detected near the earthquake centre but only P-waves can be detected on the other side of the Earth. This is because P-waves (primary waves) can travel through solids and liquids whereas S-waves (secondary waves) can only travel through solids. This means the liquid part of the core blocks the passage of S-waves.

On a flat earth, the s-waves should be able to travel across the plane unencumbered. But they are not registered. What happens to these s-waves and how does flat earth explain them?



Please note the shadow zones. You don't get any s-waves on the other side of the earth. There are shadow zones for p-waves, but they aren't on the other side of the earth. You'll note they tally up nicely with the sections of a round earth with mantle and core layers.

Focus on the s-waves

Absolutely no s-waves after 103 degrees. Why would s-waves abruptly stop on a flat earth?

Indeed it is using these waves that we calculate the epicentre of an earth quake, knowing the propagation times of p-waves and s-waves.


Now a real word example.

KEY
green marks show the arrival of direct P-waves
orange marks show the arrival of direct S-waves
red marks show the arrival of PP-waves (reflected at the surface)
yellow marks show the arrival of ScS-waves (reflected at the boundary with the outer core)
pink marks show the arrival of SS-waves (reflected at the surface)

Source
http://www.bgs.ac.uk/discoveringGeology/hazards/earthquakes/activities/dataFromSeveralStations.html

Note how the yellow and orange s-waves and the green primary p-waves (not reflected) both terminate at 103 degrees as predicted by the round earth model.

How does flat earth explain this phenomenon? Why are your s-waves stopping abruptly at 103 degrees on a flat earth with nothing in the way ... a flat surface right across earth? This is station data from 40 independent stations across the earth. It is no small sample set. How is it your s-waves radiate out from the epicenter exactly 11,465km and come to a dead stop, no matter where the earthquake?

I can pull this type of data from any earthquake. Always the same ... 103 degrees (round earth) or 11,456km (flat earth) from the epicenter.

*NOTE - posting this on https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/ and playing us off one against the other gets you an instant disqualification!  >o<

1663
Flat Earth Media / Re: flatTube
« on: June 13, 2018, 12:48:01 AM »
Phase I should have been done already. This is a quick thing to do. Merge a few boards, some renaming. We just have to come to some descision.

Phase II ... I don't mind helping build the flatTube portal and then handing it over to the admin for integration and to pull out all the malicious code I put in there. I like Phase II because its a way for us to provide great flat earth content without us having to actually make any content.

Phase III ... it'll be a cold day in hell before I endorse John Davis on anything, so you'll be on your own for that one.


Lets finish phase one before we even begin phase 2. We seem to be very good at starting projects around here, delivering them is quite another matter. It would dampen down any apathy to projects from broken dreams in the past and as Tom says, hopefully free up more time for TFES lifers who aren't required to participate so heavily in the upper forums.

1664
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Garlic bread and the curve of the earth.
« on: June 12, 2018, 10:52:57 AM »
On the ground at sea level, the amount of curvature we would see is not noticeable due to the size of the earth. The horizon would be basically flat, no matter which direction you are looking.

Why would you expect to see further to your left or right than you can straight ahead?



The horizon has to curve if you can always see the same distance in every direction. This is pretty basic geometry. There is no 'basically flat'.

1665
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Garlic bread and the curve of the earth.
« on: June 12, 2018, 10:36:40 AM »
I'll make it simpler.

Imagine the earth was a flat square ... what shape is the horizon?


Something like this? With a straight horizon?

Now imagine it is a flat disc. Still got a perfectly straight horizon?


Nope.

Only a lunatic would say "the horizon bends and therefore the earth must be a ball".

Here is me looking out over the edge of a dinner plate.


Its not a ball, is it? But it has a horizon, a curved one.

1666
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Garlic bread and the curve of the earth.
« on: June 12, 2018, 10:17:17 AM »
I made this image for comparison of curvature.


Mostly this video just shows that there is curvature, we can see curvature, which goes against the core princible of flat earth 'the horizon doesn't curve'.

The only thing done to the images is changing the color levels to create lines in the gradient. This easily shows the transition and curve of the gradient (if any), and can easily be done in free image editing software, such as Paint.NET which is used here.
Of course the horizon curves. The horizon wraps around you in a large circle 360 degrees. If the horizon was dead straight you'd have to be able to see further away from you at 45 degrees than you would looking straight ahead and there would be no horizon behind you ... it would be parallel to you. Does the earth fall away at the edges? Your garlic bread doesn't convince me that it does. You want ball like curvature, not dish like curvature.

1667
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Peirce Quincuncial Projection
« on: June 12, 2018, 10:13:25 AM »
my favorite part of these flat earth maps is how latitude and longitude apparently have no real meaning and are treated as just lines on a piece of paper. 
Are you suggesting there are large blue lines painted across the ocean? Or are they just lines on a piece of paper?

1668
Flat Earth Media / Re: flatTube
« on: June 12, 2018, 09:13:47 AM »
Posters on the other site have recommended the Celebrate Truth channel. I took a look at one of their videos and the quality seemed pretty good.


Wait what? They think the government own TFES to provide bad information? I mean that might explain why Daniel is so useless and does nothing, being a civil servant and all, but even civil servants can't take 12 years off.

Apart from the obvious slam to the flat earth society, the rest of the video is good. Why take a pop at the very people who made flat earth a thing on the internet? Where's Pizzaplanet. We need to do some PR!

1669
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Peirce Quincuncial Projection
« on: June 09, 2018, 01:21:22 PM »
You clearly missed what I was trying to achieve.

I took a 200 year old sketch and tried to add some photo realism to it. That's it. That's all it is. To make it more imaginable.

1670
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Peirce Quincuncial Projection
« on: June 09, 2018, 01:16:05 PM »
What is the date and time in either of the two images above?

Also: when does the sun ever cast a perfect circle?
How about you have a go before complaining about my efforts? Only takes 10 seconds to make an objection.

1671
I have no idea where that image was taken, but I assume there is a sea or a lake behind the Mountain.

When the sun is now far away from you at an angle, the light bounces off the water and up to create what you see in this image. Its not like this happens a lot and there are lots of images. You just found a unique example where it is really pronounced.


Edit ... ok, its Mount Rainer in Washington. Right by the sea which is due West of the mountain giving you the same effect over and over again at sunset.



Its always Mt Rainer.






Case closed.

1672
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Peirce Quincuncial Projection
« on: June 09, 2018, 12:20:29 PM »
Meh, someone stole it for pininterest?
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/760475087049538608/

I was trying to show the spotlight sun and the moon with a nice image ...



This is the point I gave up. Imagination was trumped by lack of MS Paint skill.

Since then people have trumped it with far better models
https://www.motionelements.com/stock-video-10004278-zoom-out-and-revolution-rotation-around-flat-earth-3d-model-satellite-map

But back in the day we only had stuff like below


I'd like to think our feeble efforts contributed to spark the imagination of those that came after and made flat earth what it is today.  :)
I've since retired from map and model making.

1673
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Peirce Quincuncial Projection
« on: June 09, 2018, 12:16:24 PM »
Ahhh, someone has done it.





I made the map below myself in 2011 ... I suck at making maps. Nice to see someone improved it.


To all the RErs who always moan "Why don't you lot ever make maps" ... we do! When you google search 'flat earth maps', who the hell do you think made them all? A lot of them come from THIS community.

1674
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Peirce Quincuncial Projection
« on: June 09, 2018, 12:08:47 PM »
Yes, it's true that 100 years ago many prominent FE'ers rejected the monopole model. Since then, 100 years have passed, and most of those guys are pretty dead.
Well that's a new one. An appeal to sentience.  ;)

@David, this contradicts how we are told most flights from the US come up over the North pole on the way to Europe these days. We had a huge hoo-har some years ago about how flights could now go over the North Pole (Santa's shortcut) and how many long haul flights would be doing so. Turns out that was a fabrication.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078301/Mind-sleigh-Airlines-given-permission-fly-North-Pole-time-slashing-hours-exotic-destinations.html

Airlines tend to lie a lot to drum up interest. This week Emirates are claiming that by not having windows, their aircraft will be more rigid and be able to fly higher and faster.
Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44383220
The airline says it paves the way for removing all windows from future planes, making them lighter and faster.
It is clear that this is nonsense. Air liners fly in the trans-sonic range. Taking the windows out isn't going to make them supersonic. And the altitude will be the same because the engines will stay the same so their efficiency isn't going to change. A prime example of Airlines lying to make you think they are doing something to improve your service when they aren't.

I think what your image actually shows it that airlines are risk adverse and avoid wilderness. The don't fly much over the Sahara, the North or South Pole, and they take the shortest route possible over the sea in the case of both the Pacific and the Atlantic.

Another great map though. Really like it.

Can I ask you try this one if you are experimenting?
https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/2916

It is a very famous NASA Composite. Would be interesting to see a version in your 'flat earth' format. I think would be very pretty.

1675
But salad is what food eats.

1676
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Peirce Quincuncial Projection
« on: June 08, 2018, 02:10:47 PM »
You know what I mean. The whole South is the south pole on an FE map.

1677
Technology & Information / Re: Facebook wants your naked photos
« on: June 08, 2018, 02:08:51 PM »
my mom says my littleguy is an average size.
Maybe you should have sex with other women instead?

1678
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Peirce Quincuncial Projection
« on: June 08, 2018, 12:43:34 PM »
Its the kind of map that isn't seen very often, and might therefore lend itself to T-shirts, mugs and other nice things if David wants some of his time back in the form of silver. From flat earth perspective, an alternative might be nice without the lines of longitude. IE without the working ... which can just be enjoyed from its own asthetic layout of the land masses.

David has one North Pole and 4 South Poles. Obviously for flat earth, those 4 points are actually are a single point, all joined by a circle (perimeter) with its centre at the North Pole.

1679
Technology & Information / Re: Facebook wants your naked photos
« on: June 08, 2018, 12:40:16 PM »
They'll have to store the images in order for the team to work through them. They are going to store these images, no matter what they are telling people.

sounds like a bad idea to send nudes to FB...i think i would feel safer to send YOU my nudes and you can just make sure to match it up if you ever stumble across them on the web.  message me your email address and i can send you a download link so you can get my full library of dick pics.  sorry too many to email, will have to do dropbox or something
Well now that I have a 4k monitor, I might be able to pick out your needle in its haystack, but I tend to collect those kinds of pictures for asthetic pleasure, not a game of Where's Waldo?

1680
Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is the current flat earth model?
« on: June 07, 2018, 05:22:02 PM »
It seems like lately all attempts to investigate any proposed flat earth model on here don't really progress because there isn't any model.

I mean, there used to be - the good old Gleason's map with the dome over it, and the sun and moon circling around 3000 miles high, moving in between the Tropics - but now that thinking flat earthers have accepted the impossibility of all that, the whole thing appears out the window.

So what do TFES's flat earthers believe about their model? And I'm talking basics here.

1. It's flat. We've got that much, right? It's like a giant version of Kansas. Not a sphere. A flat plane.
Well it has hills and mountains and valleys, but more or less flat, yes. The clue is in the name.

2. Does it have a dome over it? Many people seem to believe that. Though I don't suppose it matters.
Most FErs would agree the earth has a firmament. It matters a lot if you like breathing.

3. Where is the sun? We can all see it, and we can all measure certain things about it. But how high is it? And where is it in relation to the Earth?
Voliva holds that it is 3000 miles above earth, rowbotham 800 miles. It isn't millions of miles, of that we can be sure.

4. Does the north pole exist? I.e., is there a point in the centre of everything to which all compasses point?
Yup, right in the middle of the earth. The axis munday. Compasses point to the MAGNETIC north pole. That's another place entirely. Close, but not the same.

5. Where is the north star? 90% of us can see it, and we can measure certain things about it. But no one seems to know where it is.
It is directly above the geographic north pole.

6. Where is the moon? How high? Where in relation to the plane? And how does it get in front of the sun to cause eclipses?
Its like the sun. Same size, roughly same altitude. See Earth not a globe for an explanation on eclipses. Its not a one line answer.

7. What about a map? Given how much we all move about on the surface of the planet, and how little difficulty we have doing that these days, why is there no flat earth map? Or even, it seems, the vaguest notion of where countries and cities are? Can the location of any single place on the flat earth be stated with any degree of confidence? Like: how far is LA from the north pole? From Seattle? From San Diego? Are those questions impossible to answer too?
There are plenty of flat earth maps. In fact every map you've ever used is flat. No one pulls out a globe to work out where they are going. And they can be any projection you like. Why do we have to settle on one, when you can use as many as you like?

These are the basics. They really ought to have answers by now.
They all have answers. Just because you don't like the answers doesn't mean the answers aren't there.

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