Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2018, 03:13:18 PM »


Hexagon over here is of the opinion that we have no right to have AR in its current format. I genuinely can't muster any response other than "Well, we do have the right." I can see that he's taking it very seriously and personally, but I can offer no advice other than stepping back from the source of his frustrations.

This is not true. I have no problem with this, if anyone decides by himself to go there and make discussion in an insulting form. That's totally fine.

My problem is, that my posts are moved there and then an insulting response by a moderator is added there. It was not my decision to have a discussion with Junker there. I just read it while I was searching for my lost post.

I also have no problem with Junker removing my posts. If he doesn't like them, ok. It's fine. But there is no need to add insulting comments to them.

But my problem is, that posts by long time flat earth forum members that also do not fulfill the forum rules, are not moved and not even getting a warning. 

Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 03:17:14 PM »
Sheesh. Way to double down on the straw manning...

It's not every suggestion. If your suggestions are like "the designated board for insults and angry shouting should no longer have insults" then yes, that's flipping an aspect of this forum on its head.
Which they aren't, but do carry on. Oh, you did...

Quote
Similarly, your proposal for how we handle low-quality RE posters was that we work super extra hard to appease them and give them everything they want.
And I proposed that where? Why are you making stuff up?

All I'd do if I ruled the world (which it is increasingly and inexplicably apparent I do not) is be a bit more lenient in the upper fora and try and achieve a bit more consistency in modding decisions regardless of the poster. That's it. Hardly flipping anything on its anywhere.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2018, 03:19:03 PM »
That said, there still is a difference, and one I highlighted more than once. In the event where one individual is provoked by another and fails to step back in time, it is the provoker who should be penalised, not the victim.

So you think, Junker is always the victim that is only provoked to be insulting or low contend posting?

So if I post something, Junker doesn't like for whatever reason, I should be penalized? Seriously? That's a wired debate culture...   

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2018, 04:55:05 PM »
All I'd do if I ruled the world [...] is be a bit more lenient in the upper fora and try and achieve a bit more consistency in modding decisions regardless of the poster. That's it. Hardly flipping anything on its anywhere.
That's a brand new approach from you, and one that's much less unreasonable than your previous one. Now, it's possible that nobody on the FE side of the fence quite understood what you were saying, but the general understanding seemed to be that you wanted us to do more in order to appease the totally-and-completely-justified RE whine brigade.

Which they aren't
But Hexagon's are. Try to follow the chain of replies.

So you think, Junker is always the victim that is only provoked to be insulting or low contend posting?   
No. We're talking about one specific thread.
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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2018, 05:11:37 PM »
i've been posting here since this forum opened, and i've never even been warned.  it's easy: just don't make posts on the upper boards that aren't directly contributing to the thread or advancing an argument or whatever.  and if you want to make an "omg you're fucking dumb" post, just do it in AR or CN.

sexpest alluded to the only breaks anyone gets around here: if you're a long-time regular, then you usually get a little slack.  but only a little.

ultimately the problem is that a bunch of y'all are taking this place way too seriously.  i don't mean that to sound insulting, but there's just nothing here worth being bothered by.  and don't get me wrong, a bunch of the new folks are cool, fun posters with lots of interesting things to say, and i hope you'll all stick around for some more debates.  i guess i just feel like you'll all have a better time if you stop worrying about convincing anyone that you're right.  tom is never ever gonna tell you how awesome your argument is.  ever.  abandon that pretense.

better yet: come on down to the lower fora and call thork a perv for banging ciri, or explain to rushy why trump is an ape, or make fun of junker's favorite sports teams, or try to prove to tom that prayer can cure cancer, or start a new thread on whatever else.

i don't mean any of this to be insulting.  just like, you know, relax and stuff, and you'll have more fun here.  there isn't any corner of the internet quite like this one.
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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2018, 06:12:47 PM »
That's a brand new approach from you, and one that's much less unreasonable than your previous one. Now, it's possible that nobody on the FE side of the fence quite understood what you were saying, but the general understanding seemed to be that you wanted us to do more in order to appease the totally-and-completely-justified RE whine brigade.
It's not a new approach, in that thread I was talking about something different.
There I was talking about how, in my view, you could improve the standard of debate on here. You disagreed, fine, but that is what I was talking about there.
Here I'm talking about the style of moderation which should ideally treat all posters the same (with a side-dish of some latitude for long term posters - either FE or RE - who have earned it). And I would be a little less strict in the upper fora.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2018, 07:16:11 AM »
So you think, Junker is always the victim that is only provoked to be insulting or low contend posting?   
No. We're talking about one specific thread.

No, just as an specific example. I also linked to all the post of Junker, and at least I couldn't find any post on the first pages of that list by him that would not be regraded as low contend posts if they would be posted by some outside the core team of flat earth believers on this forum. And I don't mean his "you're warned" or "fuck you" posts, I mean the post that seemed be to be contributions to discussions.

Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2018, 07:19:15 AM »
ultimately the problem is that a bunch of y'all are taking this place way too seriously.  i don't mean that to sound insulting, but there's just nothing here worth being bothered by. 

I fully agree, but the problem is, you're in general not allowed to formulate this or discuss about this. Which I think should be be part of a honest discussion.   

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2018, 08:23:10 AM »
I fully agree, but the problem is, you're in general not allowed to formulate this or discuss about this.
Who's stopping you?
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2018, 08:40:51 AM »
I fully agree, but the problem is, you're in general not allowed to formulate this or discuss about this.
Who's stopping you?

You, Junker? Usually threads or posts with meta-discussions about the concept of flat earth as such, perception of flat earth/earthers, mindset of flat-earthers and so on are removed from the standard forums. E.g. yesterday you moved a whole thread to angry ranting, even though no one was either angry or ranting.

Or take the post where Junker called me a moron afterwards, I was just explaining that in the scientific community your whole idea and movement  is neither taken serious nor of any relevance. This is just a description from inside the scientific community. Why is this moved to angry ranting, its just a description of the status quo? For me this looks like, you don't apprecheate this kind of discussion. 

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2018, 10:54:13 AM »
Usually threads or posts with meta-discussions about the concept of flat earth as such, perception of flat earth/earthers, mindset of flat-earthers and so on are removed from the standard forums. E.g. yesterday you moved a whole thread to angry ranting, even though no one was either angry or ranting.
You're trying to conflate "removing" something with "moving" it. Isn't that a bit silly? As far as I can tell, the discussion is still going on.

In the upper fora, we discuss ideas, not individuals. If you want to discuss individuals or talk about who you think is and isn't relevant, that takes place in the "anything goes" boards.

Or take the post where Junker called me a moron afterwards, I was just explaining that in the scientific community your whole idea and movement  is neither taken serious nor of any relevance. This is just a description from inside the scientific community. Why is this moved to angry ranting, its just a description of the status quo?
It doesn't matter whether your insults and ad hominems are mainstream. You're more than welcome to continue them in the appropriate board.

For me this looks like, you don't apprecheate this kind of discussion.
So what? We still allow for it to continue, practically unrestricted. If anything, moving these threads out of the "clean" boards remkces restrictions.

So, I ask again. Who's stopping you from continuing your discussions? It certainly isn't us.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 10:55:51 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2018, 11:15:08 AM »
I don't like places where moderators are fine with commenting posts with "fuck you" etc. If you need this style of discussion for what ever purpose, I'm fine with that. But this style is not for me. In that sense this practically restricts this type of discussions for me.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 11:57:16 AM »
Then I can only repeat my heartfelt recommendation to find a place that suits you better. Unfortunately, your ad hominems will live in AR. If you can't handle being insulted, you'll just have to deal with not insulting people around here.
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 01:04:00 PM »
Then I can only repeat my heartfelt recommendation to find a place that suits you better. Unfortunately, your ad hominems will live in AR. If you can't handle being insulted, you'll just have to deal with not insulting people around here.

It is not insulting to tell you that scientist are not taking the flat earth idea serious. Or do you know a real, active scientist working at a university or equivalent scientific institution taking this idea serious? I don't know any and never heard about one. It's just a description of the status quo, if you like it or not.   

Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2018, 01:09:37 PM »
Beside that I'm still waiting for you pointing out some non-low content posts in the list of Junker's posts to convince me that the moderation on this forum is fair and neutral.

I still have the impression, that the core flat earth believer members of this forum can post whatever they like and don't have to care for the forum rules, while other people get warnings, bans or have their posts and threads removed from the public forums, because moderators, especially Junker, are biased in doing their job.

Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2018, 01:20:44 PM »
Hex, I agree that the moderation is not entirely fair and neutral. Even Pete conceded there is some bias.
But it's not true to say the core flat earth believers can post whatever they like.
It's more that they've become core members because they don't post whatever they like.
I've seen Tom post stuff that I know a new RE member would have been warned for and he hasn't been.
But if Tom went completely postal at someone then I don't think he'd get away with it.
(Much as I have problems with his debating style I have to concede he remains remarkably calm under some serious bombardment).
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2018, 02:57:27 PM »
Beside that I'm still waiting for you pointing out some non-low content posts in the list of Junker's posts to convince me that the moderation on this forum is fair and neutral.
What list of posts? Junker hardly ever posts in the upper. I've addressed the one recent case that you've been whinging about.

I still have the impression
I can't help you with your impressions.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2018, 08:14:06 AM »
So I've read this whole thread and I can't sit by and stay silent any longer.
Hex.  Junker is a mod but he's also a member.  He has all the rights and privledges you do.  Thus, if he wants to call you a moron in AR, he can call you a moron in AR.  He is not bound to some higher standard you've made in your head. 

You also seem to think that you're insulted because you're RE.  Well, that's not true.  I'm RE.  I'm also a long standing member.  I get insulted when I say something stupid or wrong.  You too, I suspect.  Don't like it?  Don't be wrong.

Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2018, 10:35:26 AM »
Beside that I'm still waiting for you pointing out some non-low content posts in the list of Junker's posts to convince me that the moderation on this forum is fair and neutral.
What list of posts? Junker hardly ever posts in the upper. I've addressed the one recent case that you've been whinging about.


See my post here:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9867.msg154653#msg154653

Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2018, 10:53:48 AM »
Hex, I agree that the moderation is not entirely fair and neutral. Even Pete conceded there is some bias.
But it's not true to say the core flat earth believers can post whatever they like.
It's more that they've become core members because they don't post whatever they like.
I've seen Tom post stuff that I know a new RE member would have been warned for and he hasn't been.
But if Tom went completely postal at someone then I don't think he'd get away with it.
(Much as I have problems with his debating style I have to concede he remains remarkably calm under some serious bombardment).

Regarding low content post, they can do. Go to the profiles of them and look through the lists of posts by them and count all the one-liners they post. And then go through the forums and compare their posts with the posts by other people that got a low-content warning by Junker and you will see that the bias is eye-catching.

Or compare the posts Junker moved to angry ranting and compare them to posts by flat-earther believers where they rant about NASA, scientists, etc. calling them liars, fake, stupid, etc.  Good example is the post where this Bishop guy called entire Astronomy non-scientific on the same level as Astrology. On the other hand if you call flat-earth theory a pseudo-science chances are quite high to get a warning. 

Other example I posted above, where Junker insulted a so-called flat earthers as such, while a few posts later a round earther for something very similar got an implicit warning.

The excuse was, that poor Junker was provoked and we have to understand his reaction. But it seems to me, to provoke Junker you just have to disagree with his flat-earth believe. I'm pretty sure that if the roles where assigned the other way round in this dispute, the argumentation would be turned around also.