Offline Tontogary

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Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« on: June 04, 2018, 02:57:03 AM »

So i have had a run in with the Mods, Again.

A few days back, Pete sent me a PM saying i should not call anyone an Idiot, (I think Tom had thrown his toys out of the pram, (buggy/stroller) but no names were mentioned. In fact i think I only suggested Tom was an idiot, and cannot recall doing it to anyone else)

Anyway Junker was obviously having a bout of PMT, so called someone an idiot yesterday, so instead of calling him out in the forum, I reported the post.

Queue another message from Pete saying that Junker might not have been right, but I was still wrong............

I thought mods set the tone of these debates, and when you get told not to do something, which is then directly done by a Mod, it is rather galling.

So ranting here I am, and fully expect to get another nice PM, telling me I cant criticise Mods................

It’s like debating with one hand tied behind your back. FEers can post low content shit posts (think Baby Thork) pretty much with impunity, whilst if I comment on low content posts of a Mod, I get warned. Also warned for replying to a thread because I copied something Tom had written????? (Still cant my head round that one)

Of course I understand that people who ask difficult questions need to be put in their place, after all what audacity we have for questioning the FE Hypotheses of others, but to unfairly use the Mods authority to allow one side free range over dissent is not doing this site any favours.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 04:01:01 AM »
I agree all the mods are crooks.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 06:15:02 AM »
Interesting how you chose to leave any and all meritorious detail out of your post. Let's recap:

First, you wanted us to take action against Thork for the views he espoused. I explained to you that we don't restrict people based on *what* they say. In the upper, virtually all debate is allowed so long as it's done in a civil manner. So yes, Thork can say he thinks feminism is a satanic cult or whatever, because Thork knows how to behave himself.

Then, a number of reports were made against you because you decided to start making posts consisting of little else but childish insults, and by lacing your other posts with hilarious "lol I spelled your name wrong, REKT XD" jokes. I made a personal judgement that you're a sensible enough person that simply asking you politely to stop would be better than the usual approach of immediately warning you and threatening you with a ban.

At that point, you somehow decided that you should report posts containing the word "foolish" from now on. The flaw in your reasoning was that the word is in no way restricted - it's how you use it*.

Finally, and I think that's the most important part, you chose to report junker's post for containing this "magic word". I clarified to you that while I don't agree with what junker has said, he has not broken any rules. This is what you chose to deliberately misrepresent here as "junker not having been right, but you still being wrong".

What you fundamentally fail to understand is the separation between the execution of rules and my personal opinions. You seem to demand that I factor in my personal agreement with someone into whether or not I should take action against them. To be clear, this is not going to happen.

I really don't appreciate you lying here. I can now see that I was mistaken in thinking that I can talk you into following the rules. I'll revert to the default behaviour.

* - this, by the way, is what you still fail to understand. You *can* come here and tell us we're biased. In oft-repeated terms, I disagree with you, but it's not against the rules by default. What *is* against the rules is you rambling about junker's PMS (leave her alone you misogynist! >o<) and self-righteous rants about how you already know the answer to your own question (usually along the lines of "my opponents are stupid and/or evil"). Work on your form, you'll be much happier for it. Not just here, but in life as a whole.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 06:26:17 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 06:38:59 AM »
I don’t have a huge problem with the moderation on here but there is definite bias in the way rules are applied, long-standing FE members are definitely given more latitude than RE members although maybe that is more because of the “long standing” than the FE. I have been given spurious warnings for posts that I am pretty sure other members would not have been warned for.

Also, junker is female?!
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 07:12:06 AM »
There is definitely a problem with Junkers way of "moderating" this forum. A moderator insulting other people by calling them a "moron" (Junker to me: "Don't derail threads, moron.") or accusing them of hate etc. just because they disagree with him or asking him to clarify his statements is a no go (see the last thread where he "joined the discussion").

A moderator should have a neutral position in the discussion, he should not be biased to one side. The later one is very obvious regarding Junker. His friends can do low content posting as they like, can make fun remarks and jokes and he himself can insulting as he likes, while anything that only comes close to this results in accusations by him.   

What you would need is either a really neutral moderator or a so-called "round earther" moderator to compensate for the bias.

Offline Tontogary

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2018, 08:03:36 AM »
The post i was referred to and received a message about was this one referring to our dear Mr Bishop

He is clutching at straws, and makes himself look a fool.

And the post I referred to from junker is;

This will help prevent you from looking as foolish as you do here. Best of luck, friend!

Hmmm, not a lot of difference I recon.

There is a lot of personal bias in the way the “rules” are appl,ied, and it seems like I am not the only one who thinks so.

I have not lied, but i guess if Pete is being over sensitive and upset because i didnt do as he wants (toe the line etc) then i can not help that.
Also look at the post I made in AR, and the response from a MOD, who pretty much told me to post the OP in this section.

Anyway good luck with the Biased Modding, it does not do this site any justice at all.



Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 08:09:02 AM »
there is definite bias in the way rules are applied, long-standing FE members are definitely given more latitude than RE members although maybe that is more because of the “long standing” than the FE.
I think that's unavoidable. The bias is not conscious, but I'd be a fool to pretend that we're not subject to unconscious biases. I'd like to think that it has more to do with the "long standing" than the "FE" - not only are we more used to regulars (and thus perhaps more forgiving of occasional antics?), but also they're much more experienced with the forum's culture, and thus probably able to better navigate the rules.

Junker to me: "Don't derail threads, moron."
Has this happened outside of CN/AR? If so, that's an issue.

What you would need is either a really neutral moderator or a so-called "round earther" moderator to compensate for the bias.
I think we'll be the ones to decide what we need, thanks. That said, I'm in favour of finding a couple of RE mods who would actually enforce the rules (n.b. not "compensate" for anything). I even had two suggestions for candidates recently, but unfortunately they both seem to have left us.

Hmmm, not a lot of difference I recon.
Yes, stripping any and all context from the post would do that. I already clarified this to you, and yet you chose to provide everything but the crucial context. It's almost as if you were trying to spin a narrative and couldn't do so with accurate information.

The difference you're missing is: you were trying to provoke other users. Junker's failure was letting someone else provoke him. Yes, one will be treated differently from the other.
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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 08:32:59 AM »
That said, I'm in favour of finding a couple of RE mods who would actually enforce the rules (n.b. not "compensate" for anything). I even had two suggestions for candidates recently, but unfortunately they both seem to have left us

If only you knew a RE person on here who has experience running his own forum  ;D

(I'd be up for policing the "lol, earth is round" posts or spammers if given rights to do so. I find them as tiresome as anyone)
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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 08:58:57 AM »
If only you knew a RE person on here who has experience running his own forum  ;D
But you're also firmly for flipping the culture of this place on its head. It's not my call, but personally I'd be strongly against modding you for that reason.
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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2018, 09:08:54 AM »
Not on its head, no.
Personally I'd let a little more go in the upper fora but I'm not the one making the rules.
I'd try to be more consistent between FE and RE posters although accept biases are hard to eliminate completely.
I actually think long-standing posters do deserve a bit more latitude as they've earned it.
There have been instances of spammers or people just signing up to post abuse that if I had the power to I'd have dealt with but I don't care that much
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2018, 09:34:58 AM »


Junker to me: "Don't derail threads, moron."
Has this happened outside of CN/AR? If so, that's an issue.


It's part of a reply of him to one of my posts which he obviously didn't liked and then removed together with his reply. But I don't care, where he is personally insulting me. Even if it is a personal message or whatever, he has no right do behave in that way. He needs to show a minimum of respect. But it is obvious that he has problems to keep his personal aversion against people who do not share his world view under control. And this leads to a blatant abuse of his position as a moderator. 

The word moderator has the same origin as the word modest. You and your friends should keep this in mind. 

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 10:01:18 AM »
But I don't care, where he is personally insulting me. Even if it is a personal message or whatever, he has no right do behave in that way. He needs to show a minimum of respect.
Right. Well, that's not how things work around here. The rules provide you with a helpful guide to this:

1. No personal attacks

Keep your posts civil and to the point, and don't insult others. If you have run out of valid contributions, simply do not post. The exception to this rule is in Complete Nonsense and Angry Ranting, where personal attacks are par for the course. If you do not like this, then don't post in those fora.
(Emphasis mine.)
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 12:20:17 PM »
But I don't care, where he is personally insulting me. Even if it is a personal message or whatever, he has no right do behave in that way. He needs to show a minimum of respect.
Right. Well, that's not how things work around here. The rules provide you with a helpful guide to this:

1. No personal attacks

Keep your posts civil and to the point, and don't insult others. If you have run out of valid contributions, simply do not post. The exception to this rule is in Complete Nonsense and Angry Ranting, where personal attacks are par for the course. If you do not like this, then don't post in those fora.
(Emphasis mine.)

Only problem is, that I have not posted in Angry ranting. I have no influence on Junker moving my posts there and insulting me personally. I have not chosen to post there which gives Junker a possibility to insult me according to you guidelines. In my eyes this a abuse of moderating power to move the discussion to a place that allows the moderator to personally attack the poster.

But there many any other examples with borderline post by Junker in the normal forums where he very frankly articulates his aversion against people who do not agree with him. E.g. his accusation of hostility yesterday here: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9854.msg154402#msg154402

A post like that from a "round earther" would lead to immediate banning by him. This is clearly double standards in the moderation of this forum.   
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 12:28:53 PM by hexagon »

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 12:48:25 PM »
Only problem is, that I have not posted in Angry ranting. I have no influence on Junker moving my posts there and insulting me personally.
That's okay. Nobody's forcing you to go there nonetheless. If you're genuinely unwilling to view these posts, there's a simple way of accomplishing this.

A post like that from a "round earther" would lead to immediate banning by him. This is clearly double standards in the moderation of this forum.   
This is categorically false. Outside of spambots, pretty much nobody will get "immediately banned" for anything. Aside from that, I've seen the occasional RE'er tell people to read the FAQ, and I haven't noticed them receiving any flak for it. If anything, I wish more people encouraged it.
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 01:47:00 PM »
The problem of misbehave and insult is not solved but just pretending not to read it. There is pattern in Junkers behavior of moving posts and afterwards insulting the people.

Regarding the thread I linked in my last post. Any of the posts Junker did there done by a "round earther" would be commented by Junker with  a "low contend be warned" post. The forums are full of them. After 2, 3 warnings he is banning the people. The specific post I linked was not his first one in the thread. After so many of them followed by his usual warnings, he would ban the people immediately.

Personally, I can understand that you as long time collaborators are not enforcing all the rules to each other. I also would hesitate to ban a long term friend, but maybe you should try to do this not in such an obvious way.       

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 01:53:06 PM »
The problem of misbehave and insult is not solved but just pretending not to read it.
I'm sorry that you dislike how this place works. It will continue to work the same way. If you don't like the fact that someone's insulting you in AR, you have the option of not visiting AR. If that's not enough for you, you have the option of not being on this site at all. There are plenty of other online forums which may suit you better.

I mean this sincerely - there's no need for you to suffer in an environment that you're not happy in. However, it is also no justification for you to demand that your hosts change everything for you.

Any of the posts Junker did there done by a "round earther" would be commented by Junker with  a "low contend be warned" post.
Well, no. It's the instigator that normally gets warned if he provokes someone - the person being provoked might get privately asked to tone it down, but that's that.

Your approach is an interesting one. You talk about things that "clearly" or "obviously" happen, but when faced with someone who disagrees, you're only capable of repeatedly restating your loaded assessment. It just doesn't inspire much confidence, you know?
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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 02:21:46 PM »
However, it is also no justification for you to demand that your hosts change everything for you.
Bit of a straw man, Pete, and one you've used on me.
No-one is demanding that the hosts change everything any more than claiming I want to flip the culture "on its head".
If I thought things were that bad here I wouldn't have signed up in the first place.
Nothing radical is being suggested here. What is the point of this section of every suggestion is going to be met with "well, this is how it is, if you don't like it you can get lost".
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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2018, 02:48:41 PM »
Nothing radical is being suggested here. What is the point of this section of every suggestion is going to be met with "well, this is how it is, if you don't like it you can get lost".
It's not every suggestion. If your suggestions are like "the designated board for insults and angry shouting should no longer have insults" then yes, that's flipping an aspect of this forum on its head.

Similarly, your proposal for how we handle low-quality RE posters was that we work super extra hard to appease them and give them everything they want. It's not gonna happen, because currently we're pushing in the precise opposite direction. You seemed less-than-ecstatic about it, but you at least acknowledged that we'll do what we want to do.

Hexagon over here is of the opinion that we have no right to have AR in its current format. I genuinely can't muster any response other than "Well, we do have the right." I can see that he's taking it very seriously and personally, but I can offer no advice other than stepping back from the source of his frustrations.
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Offline hexagon

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2018, 02:57:23 PM »
The problem of misbehave and insult is not solved but just pretending not to read it.
I'm sorry that you dislike how this place works. It will continue to work the same way. If you don't like the fact that someone's insulting you in AR, you have the option of not visiting AR. If that's not enough for you, you have the option of not being on this site at all. There are plenty of other online forums which may suit you better.

I mean this sincerely - there's no need for you to suffer in an environment that you're not happy in. However, it is also no justification for you to demand that your hosts change everything for you.

Any of the posts Junker did there done by a "round earther" would be commented by Junker with  a "low contend be warned" post.
Well, no. It's the instigator that normally gets warned if he provokes someone - the person being provoked might get privately asked to tone it down, but that's that.

Your approach is an interesting one. You talk about things that "clearly" or "obviously" happen, but when faced with someone who disagrees, you're only capable of repeatedly restating your loaded assessment. It just doesn't inspire much confidence, you know?

Just have a look a Junker's list of postings and show me the ones that would not be counted as low content posting if done by someone else.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=5232


Or could you explain me the substantial difference in content value between this two posts:

"This is typically the reply of the ignorant round earth logician. All hostility, no humility."

and

"i cant continue a debate with someone that doesnt exhibit intellectual honesty."

For the second one you gave a warning, the first one seems to be acceptable. Maybe you can explain why, so that in the future we have a better understanding of the forum rules and their interpretation by the moderators.   

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Re: Mods on this forum are biased and rubbish
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 03:00:22 PM »
For the second one you gave a warning
I did no such thing. I politely asked the user not to target me personally. I would generally avoid moderating someone if I'm directly involved in the discussion - I'd ask someone else to have a look. In this specific case, I haven't done that either - it doesn't warrant moderator action at all.

That said, there still is a difference, and one I highlighted more than once. In the event where one individual is provoked by another and fails to step back in time, it is the provoker who should be penalised, not the victim.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 03:03:12 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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