[Max_Almond]

Been a good discussion FairPlay ... raised loads of interesting questions for me to go off and research.

I done piss all work today though ... gonna pay for that shit tomorrow!

Nah, just do the same again tomorrow - sorted!

[Tumeni]

Also, it appears he was just crossing a peninsula over 913 miles, not a 6,000 mile round trip:

So you agree that he actually completed those 913 miles, by the route shown?

If the map is roughly to scale, where were you expecting him to go to complete 6000 miles? If he completed 913, then it looks to be about 1500 miles top to bottom at the widest part.

[Tom Bishop]

Also, it appears he was just crossing a peninsula over 913 miles, not a 6,000 mile round trip:

So you agree that he actually completed those 913 miles, by the route shown?

I don't agree with that at all. He died along the way.

If the map is roughly to scale, where were you expecting him to go to complete 6000 miles? If he completed 913, then it looks to be about 1500 miles top to bottom at the widest part.

I got the 913 mile figure for his trip from the top right of that CNN illustration. The map may not be to scale; or it depends on how you travel cross it. If you type in "diameter of Antarctica" in google it says 5500 km, or 3417 miles.

[edby]

I got the 913 mile figure for his trip from the top right of that CNN illustration.

But the map is wrong any way, since there is no 'South Pole'. We have to tear the map in the centre, then stretch it out until it turns into the 'wall of ice'.

Presumably the expedition proves that it is possible to penetrate some distance into the wall. Perhaps the supposed camp at the 'pole' itself is an even further penetration. The question is how far you could get, and whether the ice wall is infinitely long, or stops at some point. Would it be possible to finance an expedition? And what sort of instruments could we use? We need to avoid the illusion of getting lost and then turning back by accident and ending up some distance from where we started.

[edit] And here's an even weirder thought. Suppose there is some kind of distortion of space so that measuring instruments underestimate the true distance as you go further south. E.g. a surveyor's measuring chain of one mile. You assume that when you 'measure' the distance between two points using the chain, that the distance is always 'one mile'. But suppose that space contracts so that, say, in a different part it is only a tenth of a mile. You wouldn't notice, because all the objects would have shrunk as a result.

And suppose also that the distance between lines of longitude shrink in the same way. So it would appear as though they were converging, although really they are diverging.

This would explain all the apparent discrepancies. This is blowing my mind. Question everything!

[jcks]

I don't agree with that at all. He died along the way.

He didn't die along the way. He was very much alive when they picked him up.

He died later at the hospital I believe.

[ElTrancy]

Does it really matter? We've proved you are able to go to Antarctica, albeit an expensive way. What's the problem? We've never seen the ice wall, but we have seen Antarctica. We've won this debate, it doesn't make sense to continue it.

[Tumeni]

I got the 913 mile figure for his trip from the top right of that CNN illustration. The map may not be to scale; or it depends on how you travel cross it. If you type in "diameter of Antarctica" in google it says 5500 km, or 3417 miles.

So how do you arrive at "6000 mile round trip"?

[gavisthename]

Does it really matter? We've proved you are able to go to Antarctica, albeit an expensive way. What's the problem? We've never seen the ice wall, but we have seen Antarctica. We've won this debate, it doesn't make sense to continue it.

Who's "we"? Aren't there just different people discussing things here? Are there teams that I'm unaware of here?

[Max_Almond]

Yup. Team A and Team F.

[douglips]

Hey, yeah, that one guy died. This other guy didn't. The link I posted yesterday seems to be not working right now:
https://www.scott-sports.com/in/en/news/wintersports/mike-horn-sets-new-record-for-antarctic-crossing
But here's another link discussing his expedition (solo! Human and wind powered only!)

https://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/mike-horn-on-his-record-setting-trip-around-the-world-and-across-antarctica-attempt-w471465/

And, he chose to cross a longer route as well.

[hexagon]

Reading this page one can have the impression, Antarctica is still a kind of terra incognita like it was 150 years ago. I mean, there people living and working there:

https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/livingsouthpole/station_new.jsp

Last week someone visit our university who is involved in several scientific projects based at the south pole. One was very interesting. They send a balloon equipped with some experiments and measurement devices  up in the sky at the south pole and mapped its path across Antarctica. And that's not a kind of magic, it's application of science and technology.     

[edby]

And there is a road from McMurdo to the pole.

[iamcpc]

I got the 913 mile figure for his trip from the top right of that CNN illustration. The map may not be to scale; or it depends on how you travel cross it. If you type in "diameter of Antarctica" in google it says 5500 km, or 3417 miles.

Tom you have to understand that CNN uses round earth miles and Google uses round earth miles. No one has any idea how many flat earth miles that is.

[Tom Bishop]

The compass doesn't work in Antarctica, not even a dip compass. The magnetic field lines are vertical there. On a Round Earth, when you are at the "South Pole" you then need to go North to get back to the coast. In fact, most of these images show that after staying at McMurdo South Pole station for a while they made a different angle back to the coast. They did not travel in a straight line, and the maps show that.

Without a compass, how did he travel North after reaching the South Pole?

Either: They used markers built by previous explorers who were able to get back to the coast, landmarks, or they used the sun as a guide back Northwards to the coast.

[Tumeni]

The compass doesn't work in Antarctica, not even a dip compass. The magnetic field lines are vertical there. On a Round Earth, when you are at the "South Pole" you then need to go North to get back to the coast.

Yeah, so?

In fact, most of these images show that after staying at McMurdo South Pole station for a while they made a different angle back to the coast. They did not travel in a straight line, and the maps show that.

Yeah, so?


Without a compass, how did he travel North after reaching the South Pole?

Either: They used markers built by previous explorers who were able to get back to the coast, landmarks, or they used the sun as a guide back Northwards to the coast.

Again, so what?

[Tom Bishop]

The compass doesn't work in Antarctica, not even a dip compass. The magnetic field lines are vertical there. On a Round Earth, when you are at the "South Pole" you then need to go North to get back to the coast.

Yeah, so?

In fact, most of these images show that after staying at McMurdo South Pole station for a while they made a different angle back to the coast. They did not travel in a straight line, and the maps show that.

Yeah, so?


Without a compass, how did he travel North after reaching the South Pole?

Either: They used markers built by previous explorers who were able to get back to the coast, landmarks, or they used the sun as a guide back Northwards to the coast.

Again, so what?

So it's not a definite proof that, on a Monopole model Flat Earth, that they ventured out into the infinite plane.

[douglips]

Navigating by the stars/sun has been pretty settled for hundreds of years. Given accurate timepieces and a sextant it's really straightforward.
I linked you to a manual from 1804 that shows how to do this in a previous thread.

Given that the sun is visible most of the day that time of year, you can just use a 24 hour watch, point the hour hand at the sun, and 24 o'clock will point along a consistent meridian depending on what timezone you have set on your watch.

Of course, a modern traveller would just use GPS, but either way you get where you want to go.

Edited because I clicked "post" too soon, added this:
---

So it's not a definite proof that, on a Monopole model Flat Earth, that they ventured out into the infinite plane.

Doesn't matter - what matters is that YOU CAN GO TO ANTARCTICA AND GO OVER ANY ROUTE YOU WANT, you just have to be able to pay, and you better be in good shape and know your way around survival equipment.

The context of this conversation was assertions that people can't go to Antarctica.

You can go. You can test whatever theory you want there.

[Tom Bishop]

Doesn't matter - what matters is that YOU CAN GO TO ANTARCTICA AND GO OVER ANY ROUTE YOU WANT, you just have to be able to pay, and you better be in good shape and know your way around survival equipment.

Really? The video we saw seemed to imply that Antarctica is very highly regulated and there was a ton of paperwork and government approvals, to the point where they approve where you go and the path you travel through.

[Curious Squirrel]

Doesn't matter - what matters is that YOU CAN GO TO ANTARCTICA AND GO OVER ANY ROUTE YOU WANT, you just have to be able to pay, and you better be in good shape and know your way around survival equipment.

Really? The video we saw seemed to imply that Antarctica is very highly regulated and there was a ton of paperwork and government approvals, to the point where they approve where you go and the path you travel through.

The video spun a tale and concluded it was impossible. We've provided multiple sources showing not only is it possible to go there, but many of his claims were false. Why should any of the rest be taken at face value?

[rabinoz]

The compass doesn't work in Antarctica, not even a dip compass. The magnetic field lines are vertical there. On a Round Earth, when you are at the "South Pole" you then need to go North to get back to the coast. In fact, most of these images show that after staying at McMurdo South Pole station for a while they made a different angle back to the coast. They did not travel in a straight line, and the maps show that.

Without a compass, how did he travel North after reaching the South Pole?

Either: They used markers built by previous explorers who were able to get back to the coast, landmarks, or they used the sun as a guide back Northwards to the coast.

When we're you last in Antarctica to gather this information that "The compass doesn't work in Antarctica, not even a dip compass. The magnetic field lines are vertical there"?
Because it is simply incorrect.

The magnetic field lines might be vertical right over the south magnetic pole, but not everywhere in Antarctica.

Yes, the field lines are vertical everywhere in Antarctica. There is only a strip of land where the compass even works.

When you are in Antarctica the magnetic compass needle attempts to align with the field lines and points down into the ground of its tray.

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Had you given actual figures you would have found that, while the inclination is very high and declinations very variable the magnetic is still a valuable navigation tool over much of Antarctica.
You really should take a look at : http://www.usap.gov/travelAndDeployment/documents/FieldManual-Chapt21AntarcticNavigation.pdf, where it says:

21.2 Magnetic Compasses
Magnetic compasses must be modified for use in polar latitudes by reweighting the needle. As the compass gets closer to the South Pole, the south-seeking end of the needle is pulled downward toward the earth and will drag on its enclosure unless the proper nonmagnetic counterweight (copper wire) is added to the northseeking
end.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Field parties may elect to travel by using a Grid North system (see the “Grid North” section), versus a magnetic or truenorth system.

from: GOLF 1-8-2 Antarctica Expedition 2006/2007, Compass Confusion. The following is from McMurdo Station, which is an extreme case, being relative close to the South Magnetic Pole. South magnetic pole    -64.5°N, 137.8°E Our location at the station    -77.8°N, 166.6°E Declination at McMurdo    About 144 degrees Inclination at McMurdo About -81 degrees Declination Declination is the angle between true north and the magnetic north at any given point on the globe. . . . . . . .  Here at McMurdo Station, we are located north of the geographic pole, but south of the magnetic pole! Our compass needles (before being corrected for the 144 degree declination) point to the south! Inclination Magnetic field lines near the equator point more or less horizontal, but by definition, magnetic field lines at the South Pole point vertical up (and vertical down at the North Pole).  . . . . . . . . . .  if we were to use that same compass in Antarctica, the north end of the compass needle becomes pinned up against the glass faceplate! This vertical component of the magnetic field is known as 'inclination'. Thankfully, the Berg Field Center at McMurdo Station supplies us with compasses that are specially weighted to offset this effect, that equates about -81 degrees.

Location of McMurdo Station

And a bit on Amundsen.

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Roald Amundsen's expedition was the first to visit the South Pole at 90°S.
He used magnetic compasses and sun sightings, using sextants, for navigation and verified the final location with very careful sun sightings.

TAKING AN OBSERVATION AT THE POLE

Best read up on it yourself in Amundsen's original South Pole Station. Here is a little bit from it:

Roald Amundsen arrived in the general vicinity of Pole on the afternoon of 14 December 1911, traveling from grid south (he was using the local time of Framheim, which would have been approximately GMT-11; some accounts, including Amundsen's original field notes, use time on the west side of the Date Line which Scott was using, this would make the date 15 December). When their sledge meters indicated they should be at the right place, they stopped at the location marked "Sledge" on the map at right (from The South Pole) to determine their position more accurately from sun shots.

Then Robert Scott's expedition got to the South Pole just a few days later - what a way to spend Christmas in 1911!
Of course, as we all know he and his expedition on the way home.