Morgenstund

On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« on: April 06, 2018, 11:15:54 PM »
A common argument against a GE is 'the horizon doesn't curve'. But why would we expect it to curve? Where would the highest point on the curve be. The fact is that the horizon would not curve on a GE:
All points on the horizon are at the same level and the same distance from the observer in all directions, thus forming a straight line. Yes, it is that simple.

Offline Tontogary

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Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2018, 07:13:30 AM »
I agree, pretty easy to replicate as well.

Get a ball, gym ball, etc, and put your eye level near the inflation valve. Now look in one direction where the horizon of the ball is, and make a note of what the “horizon” lines up with in the background. Now spin the ball with the axis  through the valve below your eye level(same effect as turning in a circle 360 degrees looking at the horizon) the “horizon will not curve, dip away or rise up.

If you find it hard to keep your eye still then mount a camera on a steady surface in the same location, spin the ball while recording a video or series of stills. Very easy and costs nothing to repeat the experiment.

This is what you see as on observer on the round earth. You are in effect on top of the world, with the world curving away in all directions from you. In relation the world you are on the very top.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Offline Parallax

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Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2018, 01:24:59 PM »
Observations have already been made as to how the earth does not dip. If it was curved, then the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.

Morgenstund

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2018, 01:32:12 PM »
Observations have already been made as to how the earth does not dip. If it was curved, then the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.

So you say... Back to the topic. Do you accept my conclusion that a straight horizon does not disprove a GE? That it is in fact what we must expect?

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2018, 02:35:55 PM »
Observations have already been made as to how the earth does not dip. If it was curved, then the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.
The path of the sun proves the shape of the earth.  Plus measured distances.

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2018, 03:34:41 PM »
Observations have already been made as to how the earth does not dip. If it was curved, then the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.
This is just a bald faced lie. But I've come to expect little better out of you.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2018, 04:03:36 PM »
...  the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.

Various sources I've looked suggest the elevation at its headwaters and tributaries is over 1000 metres (above sea level)

What's the source for "only a foot" ?
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Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2018, 04:22:27 PM »
...  the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.

Various sources I've looked suggest the elevation at its headwaters and tributaries is over 1000 metres (above sea level)

What's the source for "only a foot" ?
I've seen this "only a foot" thing too. Seems to be a flat our lie so I don't know why it keeps getting repeated:



Source:
http://www.warrencountyschools.org/userfiles/3338/Classes/91227/Ch.%2019%20readings.doc

If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2018, 04:35:24 PM »
...  the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.

Various sources I've looked suggest the elevation at its headwaters and tributaries is over 1000 metres (above sea level)

What's the source for "only a foot" ?
I've seen this "only a foot" thing too. Seems to be a flat our lie so I don't know why it keeps getting repeated:



Source:
http://www.warrencountyschools.org/userfiles/3338/Classes/91227/Ch.%2019%20readings.doc
It's from "A Hundred Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe" of which half or more are untrue on the face of things. This one happens to be #4 in that list:

Quote
There are rivers that flow for hundreds of miles towards the level of the sea without falling more than a few feet - notably, the Nile, which, in a thousand miles, falls but a foot. A level expanse of this extent is quite incompatible with the idea of the Earth's "convexity." It is, therefore, a reasonable proof that Earth is not a globe.

I'm not sure where it might have come from before this, but this is the most likely source for anyone repeating it in defense of the flat Earth idea. I suspect it was likely a misconception/myth at the time, but I don't have proof for that.

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2018, 04:45:18 PM »
I see Tom was peddling this lie ten years ago

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25083.0

Weird.

Anyway...original post. Had to think about this but I think that's correct. If we were on a globe (  :D ) then although, as we have shown recently, the horizon dips you are, from your perspective, "on top" of the ball so it should dip equally in all directions and thus the horizon would be a circle. By coincidence this is what is observed when you're out at sea.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline Parallax

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Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2018, 05:42:06 PM »
...  the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.

Various sources I've looked suggest the elevation at its headwaters and tributaries is over 1000 metres (above sea level)

What's the source for "only a foot" ?
Dr Rowbotham mentioned it, as did WM Carpenter.

It falls a foot, no crappy diagram is going to change that.

Morgenstund

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2018, 06:07:55 PM »

Dr Rowbotham mentioned it, as did WM Carpenter.

It falls a foot, no crappy diagram is going to change that.

What do you mean by 'it falls a foot'? Could you produce a diagram, crappy or otherwise, that illustrates what it is you mean, and maybe explain why it is a problem for GE?

And am I right when I assume that you have no intention whatsoever of addressing my original topic, the expected straight horizon? Am I right when I assume that you have dug in, and it's going to be 'the Nile drops one foot' from here on out?

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2018, 07:20:21 PM »
...  the Nile should dip but it falls only a foot. This is proof earth is not a globe.

Various sources I've looked suggest the elevation at its headwaters and tributaries is over 1000 metres (above sea level)

What's the source for "only a foot" ?
Dr Rowbotham mentioned it, as did WM Carpenter.

It falls a foot, no crappy diagram is going to change that.
Neither of whom got any closer than England to the Nile river. How would they have any idea?

As for the horizon, in particular at sea, I can't come up with a reason we would expect to visibly see a curve in some manner.

Offline Parallax

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Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2018, 08:39:58 PM »
What sort of comment is that? So they didn't go, have you? They researched what had been recorded, just like you do now.


Dr Rowbotham mentioned it, as did WM Carpenter.

It falls a foot, no crappy diagram is going to change that.

What do you mean by 'it falls a foot'? Could you produce a diagram, crappy or otherwise, that illustrates what it is you mean, and maybe explain why it is a problem for GE?

And am I right when I assume that you have no intention whatsoever of addressing my original topic, the expected straight horizon? Am I right when I assume that you have dug in, and it's going to be 'the Nile drops one foot' from here on out?
The Nile only drops in height a foot. It does not drop any further. This is proof of a flat earth.

As for the original comment, the horizon should curve on a globe earth. If earth is a globe  then the horizon would curve, instead it does not. Proof is the fact the horizon always rises to eye level, only on a flat earth would this happen.

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2018, 08:59:00 PM »
The Nile only drops in height a foot. It does not drop any further. This is proof of a flat earth.
Fun fact: repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

Quote
As for the original comment, the horizon should curve on a globe earth. If earth is a globe  then the horizon would curve, instead it does not.
Why would the horizon curve on a globe earth? At ground level the horizon would be the same distance from you in every direction so the horizon would be a horizontal circle which is exactly what you can observe when out at sea.

Quote
Proof is the fact the horizon always rises to eye level, only on a flat earth would this happen.
Fun fact: repeating a lie doesn't make it true.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2018, 09:00:49 PM »
What sort of comment is that? So they didn't go, have you? They researched what had been recorded, just like you do now.


Dr Rowbotham mentioned it, as did WM Carpenter.

It falls a foot, no crappy diagram is going to change that.

What do you mean by 'it falls a foot'? Could you produce a diagram, crappy or otherwise, that illustrates what it is you mean, and maybe explain why it is a problem for GE?

And am I right when I assume that you have no intention whatsoever of addressing my original topic, the expected straight horizon? Am I right when I assume that you have dug in, and it's going to be 'the Nile drops one foot' from here on out?
The Nile only drops in height a foot. It does not drop any further. This is proof of a flat earth.

As for the original comment, the horizon should curve on a globe earth. If earth is a globe  then the horizon would curve, instead it does not. Proof is the fact the horizon always rises to eye level, only on a flat earth would this happen.
Rises to eye level, please explain. Modern measurements do not agree.

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2018, 09:16:53 PM »
What sort of comment is that? So they didn't go, have you? They researched what had been recorded, just like you do now.


Dr Rowbotham mentioned it, as did WM Carpenter.

It falls a foot, no crappy diagram is going to change that.

What do you mean by 'it falls a foot'? Could you produce a diagram, crappy or otherwise, that illustrates what it is you mean, and maybe explain why it is a problem for GE?

And am I right when I assume that you have no intention whatsoever of addressing my original topic, the expected straight horizon? Am I right when I assume that you have dug in, and it's going to be 'the Nile drops one foot' from here on out?
The Nile only drops in height a foot. It does not drop any further. This is proof of a flat earth.


Given that airports exist and their elevation is well documented for purposes of having airplanes not crash, you have a serious problem.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_International_Airport

Luxor airport is at 294 feet.

The Nile does not flow through a 300 foot deep gorge at Luxor and yet drains to the Mediterranean at 0 elevation. Please explain.


Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2018, 09:30:35 PM »
The silliest thing about this Nile claim - aside from the fact it is demonstrably untrue - is it doesn't make any sense on a flat earth either.
What would cause the water to flow on a flat earth if the gradient was really that shallow?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

HorstFue

Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2018, 11:48:42 PM »
A common argument against a GE is 'the horizon doesn't curve'. But why would we expect it to curve? Where would the highest point on the curve be. The fact is that the horizon would not curve on a GE:
All points on the horizon are at the same level and the same distance from the observer in all directions, thus forming a straight line. Yes, it is that simple.

mathematically: The projection of a circle is a line, only if the observer is at the same level/same plane of the circle. If the observer is above the center of the circle, he would see part of an ellipse.
Theoretically, but this circle, the horizon, compared to the hight of the observer, is huge. So in practice it's not distinguishable if you see a line or part of an ellipse.

An example: You know a Soccer field? There's a big circle in the center of the field. If you stay in the middle of this circle, you can see, that this is a circle around you - All points on the horizon this circle are at the same level and the same distance from the observer in all directions.

But the distance to the horizon is huge compared to this center circle of the soccer field with 10 yards radius.
E.g. the dip for an observers hight of 2 meters, which gives 3 nautical miles distance to horizon, is about 1 arc minute, which is max. resolution, you could see with naked eye.
And increasing hight of the observer does not help much, as the horizon will also be farther away. E.g. a dip of one degree is found for about 900 meters hight and 60 nautical miles distance to the horizon.
But this is already far beyond, what normal viewing conditions would allow you to see. The horizon would be blurred, so that no precise observation could be made.

Offline Parallax

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Re: On a globe Earth the horizon should not curve
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2018, 12:01:55 AM »
What sort of comment is that? So they didn't go, have you? They researched what had been recorded, just like you do now.


Dr Rowbotham mentioned it, as did WM Carpenter.

It falls a foot, no crappy diagram is going to change that.

What do you mean by 'it falls a foot'? Could you produce a diagram, crappy or otherwise, that illustrates what it is you mean, and maybe explain why it is a problem for GE?

And am I right when I assume that you have no intention whatsoever of addressing my original topic, the expected straight horizon? Am I right when I assume that you have dug in, and it's going to be 'the Nile drops one foot' from here on out?
The Nile only drops in height a foot. It does not drop any further. This is proof of a flat earth.


Given that airports exist and their elevation is well documented for purposes of having airplanes not crash, you have a serious problem.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_International_Airport

Luxor airport is at 294 feet.

The Nile does not flow through a 300 foot deep gorge at Luxor and yet drains to the Mediterranean at 0 elevation. Please explain.
They probably just built Luxor airport a bit higher up.