Offline Parallax

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #80 on: April 08, 2018, 08:22:08 AM »
Parallax, you are asking someone to prove a negative, which i have been told one should not expect.

Please supply proof that Rowbotham had gained a doctorate.

You are correct, Edinburgh is in Great Britain, and is also a part of the UK. And as such no PHDs were awarded until the 20th century.

https://www.vitae.ac.uk/vitae-publications/blogs/history-of-phd.pdf/@@download/file/History%20of%20PhD.pdf

He might have travelled outside of the UK, but if he did in fact actually obtain a doctorate, do you not think he would have proclaimed this very loud to try to give credence to his arguments? It has been said that he was very forcefull, often “steamrollering” and even bullying his opponents. A person with a Doctorate would have used that information to back up his claims.

If he was a medical doctor, how in any way does that qualify him to look at the physics that he claimed to have disproved?
Why? You are the ones who keep saying he wasn't a real doctor yet are unable to provide proof. You are the ones claiming it to us, yet asking us to prove he was, but actually it's on you to prove he wasn't.

The very fact his grave references it is good enough. As is the fact the books of the day by his followers referenced him to being a doctor. Also if he was faking it, surely his opponents of the day would have shouted it from the rooftops instead of, well, not doing that at all. What better way to discredit a man than to announce he wasn't a real doctor. But they didn't.

I also don't know where this rubbish about him not leaving the country comes from. You are trying to find a needle in a haystack with that one. You have no passport, and no records to back up that claim. Did he leave Britain? It's quite possible he did not. That doesn't mean he wasn't a doctor, but can you find records that show him leaving the country and entering another one? You think the records of every single person from those days are still around? Bearing in mind there was no restriction of travel across the British empire and Britain's population grew from 10 million in 1800 to 40 million by the end of the century, you really are grasping at straws trying to find a record of him leaving here.

Besides, doctors didn't have to leave the country. Many of them trained in Britain. Dr Rowbotham would have been registered with the royal college of physicians most likely, quacks didn't all leave Britain to get training. In those days they certainly didn't need to.

And no, he wasn't someone who 'steamrolled' his opponents. On the contrary, it is well recorded in the papers of the day that he conducted himself with dignity and respect yet showed up those in the scientific community to be poor at handling a man well versed in his arguments.

You are correct though, being a medical doctor would not qualify him to look at what he wrote, but you don't need to be a scientist to do scientific research and experiments. Besides, what was he supposed to do?

"I do say, my good fellows, I am a medical doctor, so who better to prove the flatness of the earth than I?"

I think not. What would he have to gain by bragging about himself being a doctor? As you have mentioned, a doctor isn't qualified in physics, so he had no need to do that. He let his facts and experiments speak for themselves.

Offline Tontogary

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #81 on: April 08, 2018, 11:45:00 AM »
It doesn’t work like that, and you know it. It is not expected to prove a negative, as your mentor Tom pointed out to me. You claim he was a doctor, then the burden of proof is on you.

Please supply proof that Rowbotham had gained a doctorate.

As for the references to him being called a doctor by other authors, i am willing to bet they were the likes of Blount, Smith, Holden, Dowie, Hampden, Winship eat al, lackeys and blindly following his unscientific and poorly done experiments, and no doubt also bringing in the coin by selling books, and charging people to attend lectures, as Charlatan Rowbotham did.

I mention that his experiments were poor;lay done, and made massive jumps to conclusions, as i am in the process of reading EnaG and have yet to see any evidence of real experiments, other than a series of annecdotal third hand eye witness accounts, or a series of observations (i cant call them experiments, as experiments are scientific, repeatable and produce results, not wildly inaccurate observations) that come to some wild conclusions as the very basis of them are wrong. He mixes Nautical miles with Sttute miles, he does not adequately account for refraction, knows little about magnetism, yet makes wild claims about each, all with one aim. To prove his theory.

He starts of with a closed mind, ie the earth is flat, and not a globe, and makes up a series of observations to give credence to his already formed opinion, the very thing that he talks about in Chapter 1

“None can doubt that by making special experiments, and collecting manifest and undeniable facts, arranging them in logical order, and observing what is naturally and fairly deducible therefrom, the result must be more consistent and satisfactory than the contrary method of framing a theory or system--assuming the existence and operation of causes of which there is no direct and practical evidence. “.   ( Ref Charlatan Rowbotham 1881)

How can one look at his observations on magnetic fields, and explanation of a “dipping needle” on the horizon and give any any credence to what he says when he gets a very fundamental basic proinciple of magnetism wrong, and then extrapolate that exponentially to disprove the world is round, when if you in fact use the correct magnetic flux lines on his diagram it proves the world MUST BE round!

When you suggest he might be a MD, then you are right to acknowledge that he has no knowledge of the physics, navigation, or magnetism, and are you referring to the Rowbotham who claimed he could cure everything, and sold an abundance of snake oil, and fake cures, for profit? Certainly no MD, but as you pointy out records were not well kept and any quack could call himself an M.D., and gullible, uneducated and desperate people would bear suckeered into his web!

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Offline jcks

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #82 on: April 08, 2018, 06:54:46 PM »
Parallax, you are asking someone to prove a negative, which i have been told one should not expect.

Please supply proof that Rowbotham had gained a doctorate.

You are correct, Edinburgh is in Great Britain, and is also a part of the UK. And as such no PHDs were awarded until the 20th century.

https://www.vitae.ac.uk/vitae-publications/blogs/history-of-phd.pdf/@@download/file/History%20of%20PhD.pdf

He might have travelled outside of the UK, but if he did in fact actually obtain a doctorate, do you not think he would have proclaimed this very loud to try to give credence to his arguments? It has been said that he was very forcefull, often “steamrollering” and even bullying his opponents. A person with a Doctorate would have used that information to back up his claims.

If he was a medical doctor, how in any way does that qualify him to look at the physics that he claimed to have disproved?
I would add on to this, there has been no presented evidence he ever left the UK. The two locations that offered PhD's (Germany and the US) have no records of someone by his name entering them during the time period he was most likely to have visited. As well feel free to peruse this thread as well https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62919.0

Read through that thread. When Ski contacted Rowbotham's university they said that without his dates of attendance or major it would be unfeasible to look through the records because of lack of manpower.

When the university was contacted again there was a woman who claimed to have looked at the records in the same day and proclaimed that there were no records. She did not reply to later queries on whether she was looking at the limited online digitized records, or was going through the archive Ski was told was not feasible to go though without more specific information.

There are numerous references to Rowbotham being a doctor. To claim that he is not a doctor is pretty absurd.

It wasn't just the woman (Rona). There was this as well:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61409.msg1606905#msg1606905

That's two people who have searched and came up with no results. There's also the fact that PhDs were not granted until 1917, and the only other places that offered them before then were Germany and the United States.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #83 on: April 08, 2018, 07:14:35 PM »
It wasn't just the woman (Rona). There was this as well:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61409.msg1606905#msg1606905

That's two people who have searched and came up with no results.

Recall, Ski had contacted the university and was told that only a portion of the records were digitized. The majority were in paper archives. The university denied the request to search for Rowbotham due to not knowing the dates of attendance or major, and that it would require a lot of manpower to look through all of the documents.

The person you linked claims that Rowbotham does not exist in the records, nor variants of that name. The fact that he mentions "variants" of the name suggests that he did not look through the paper records and it was a digital search.

Quote
There's also the fact that PhDs were not granted until 1917, and the only other places that offered them before then were Germany and the United States.

MDs were offered before 1917; it is not the same thing as a PhD.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 07:19:59 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline jcks

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #84 on: April 08, 2018, 07:38:13 PM »
It wasn't just the woman (Rona). There was this as well:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61409.msg1606905#msg1606905

That's two people who have searched and came up with no results.

Recall, Ski had contacted the university and was told that only a portion of the records were digitized. The majority were in paper archives. The university denied the request to search for Rowbotham due to not knowing the dates of attendance or major, and that it would require a lot of manpower to look through all of the documents.

The person you linked claims that Rowbotham does not exist in the records, nor variants of that name. The fact that he mentions "variants" of the name suggests that he did not look through the paper records and it was a digital search.

Quote
There's also the fact that PhDs were not granted until 1917, and the only other places that offered them before then were Germany and the United States.

MDs were offered before 1917; it is not the same thing as a PhD.

He also mentions " in the period concerned" which suggests whatever records were being searched were relevant to any PhDs awarded ast that time.  If he needed to search paper records for that information I imagine he would have done so.

Also I didn't mention MDs because I am specifically following the claim of him holding a doctorate.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #85 on: April 09, 2018, 02:26:28 PM »
Dr Rowbotham proved that the earth is a flat plane with the Bedford level experiment. He also explained why ships hulls disappear before the mast.
More recently we have proved the earth is round.

And by actual Doctors, no less!

Exactly, Rowbotham was no doctor but was a known con man.

This is false. Rowbotham held an MD and conducted himself honestly.

Then you should have no problem providing proof.
Nothing Guest has ever said should be taken as representative of anything other than Guest's own delusions opinions.

Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #86 on: April 09, 2018, 02:37:38 PM »
Dr Rowbotham proved that the earth is a flat plane with the Bedford level experiment. He also explained why ships hulls disappear before the mast.
More recently we have proved the earth is round.

And by actual Doctors, no less!

Exactly, Rowbotham was no doctor but was a known con man.

This is false. Rowbotham held an MD and conducted himself honestly.

Then you should have no problem providing proof.
If you look through the other threads linked, the proof boils down to other people calling him doctor. No records of his graduation or acquisition of said degree have been found/located however. It however does seem plausible that he had some medical knowledge, and the title was self bestowed or similar to reflect this, rather than having an actual MD or PhD.

Offline edby

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #87 on: May 13, 2018, 10:41:03 AM »
Amazingly, I have managed to work out by now that objects get smaller as they go away from me.
Ahem, objects don't get smaller as they go away from you. Unless bits are dropping off them.

I am not sure they even look smaller.

I agree that the projection of the object onto the retina, or a camera, gets smaller.

Offline ShowmetheProof

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #88 on: May 14, 2018, 01:45:04 PM »
I would like to mention that he wasn't the most trustworthy guy.  He proposed that moonlight was cold and translucent,  said that he could cure every disease, and that he could prolong human life.  Once he was defeated in the realm of science, he started a new hobby of conning people.  Not a nice guy.

Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2018, 08:27:14 PM »
Dr Rowbotham proved that the earth is a flat plane with the Bedford level experiment. He also explained why ships hulls disappear before the mast.
Agreed.
It's funny actually, round d earth heretics say that the ship's hull disappearing 'proves' that earth is flat, but look through binoculars, like you've said and... there is the hull. If earth was round and you looked through binoculars, you wouldn't be able to see the hull.
Nah.
It's called a vanishing point. Obviously you are unaware that the further something gets, the smaller it is.

Dr Rowbotham proved that the earth is a flat plane with the Bedford level experiment. He also explained why ships hulls disappear before the mast.
More recently we have proved the earth is round.
Who has? Corrupt governments hiding the truth? NASA keeping stock of its massive yearly budget? There is no proof, its flat. The maths don't add up to a round world.

Dr Rowbotham proved that the earth is a flat plane with the Bedford level experiment. He also explained why ships hulls disappear before the mast.
More recently we have proved the earth is round.

And by actual Doctors, no less!
You keep saying that, Dr Rowbothams work was revolutionary, proved by the fact people like you are debating it now rather than ignoring what you are claiming to be a load of rubbish.

Yes, It gets smaller, but how do you explain why it sinks into the horizon.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2018, 11:39:16 PM »
I would like to mention that he wasn't the most trustworthy guy.  He proposed that moonlight was cold and translucent,  said that he could cure every disease, and that he could prolong human life.  Once he was defeated in the realm of science, he started a new hobby of conning people.  Not a nice guy.

Totally wrong.

Rowbotham didn't propose the concept of moonlight having a cooling effect upon bodies. He quoted conventional sources. There is a following of people who are performing those type of experiments. Do a search for "cold moonlight" on YouTube.

Rowbotham listed about 8 or 9 diseases Phosphorous could help with. Hardly "every disease". There are thousands of diseases known to medicine. Nor was it only Rowbotham who promoted the health benefits of Phospherous.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 11:47:28 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Flat Earth Math, and what you should see, shall the Earth be round
« Reply #91 on: June 01, 2018, 07:32:53 PM »
if you go to a beach and watch a ship disappear than pull of you binoculars and zoom in past the horizon you should see the ship. If there was a curvature, you shouldn't be able to see the ship because the curve would have already gone over it. Ladies and Gentleman its all about perspective. I rest my case. The curvature has been debunked.

that is a mighty big leap to make there.  i have been following this forum for a number of months and i live near the ocean.  I have heard this line quite a few times about using a telescope to see the ship again.  so, last time i was at the beach i brought my 4" telescope with the most powerful eyepiece i had.  guess what....the portion of the sailboat that you couldnt see...still couldnt see.   i find it interesting that you say "it should" which implies you have never tried.  this is a very simple exercise to do.   and before you ask, i have tried this on a second trip as well.
Quote from: SiDawg
Planes fall out of the sky all the time