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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2018, 04:42:41 AM »
Right. This is very rough, but...



For speed I've assumed that AC = 3, the same as the distance travelled. This is not quite correct, 3 is actually the distance around the arc of the circle but the angle is so small that the error is negligible.

And I forgot to state that the 3959.00113... = BC, but it does because of Pythagorus.

So it is about 6 feet.

That's just a standard Pythagorean Theorem earth drop calculation that shows a 6 foot drop over 3 miles assuming an altitude of 0...

The same method is described here under the Pythagorean Theorem section: http://flatvsround.blogspot.com/2015/10/how-to-calculate-earths-curvature.html
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 04:48:41 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2018, 04:57:48 AM »
The first experiment we've covered in some detail. The difference of 6 feet is borne out by a round earth, I've done the maths now and 6 feet is correct, see previous post. This really is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of geometry.

You are using an earth drop calculation. Over a distance of 3 miles, the earth drops 6 feet, assuming a height of 0. You used the Theorem of Pythagoras, the same method we use in places in our Wiki.

You can get the same thing by going to https://www.metabunk.org/curve/ and putting in 3 miles and 0 feet in height. You get 6 feet. This one is also based on Pythagorean Theory.

This method isn't finding the "tilt" of the boat due to Round Earth curvature. It is not based on the alternative approach you were trying to pursue.

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I and Stagirl have also explained why how much of the boat the laser can "see" is different from the height difference in where the laser hits the boat at the two distances if the laser starts parallel to the ground and the earth curves away. I have proven that laser height cancels out and doesn't change this difference. You really have no valid objection to the first experiment.

I just did object. You copied a regular Theory of Pythagoras calculation that is used to find the drop. It's the same thing as the online calculator I've linked above.

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The second one. Honestly, I think the objection here may be more valid. I do think there is a possibility they have over-stated the height of the helicopter when he could see it, although I don't know whether the altimeter measures from the bottom of the helicopter and refraction may be a factor here. There is admittedly some doubt  and I agree the value being exactly 24 feet is suspicious. BUT...the fact is you CAN clearly see the helicopter disappear below a "hill" of water and then rise from behind it.

The value being exactly 24 feet is vary suspicious, considering that is the value we get if we calculate for that distance and leave the observer height at 0.

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All you can really do is grow this slight seed of suspicion about the exact height of the helicopter into a full blown conspiracy about how the makers of the programme are lying about this for...reasons. I guess anything other than modify your beliefs, eh?

It's pretty clear that the experiments were fraudulent to me. They didn't just come up with random numbers. They came up with numbers that would be the case if the observer height were 0. Fraud.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 05:23:51 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2018, 08:16:07 AM »
That's just a standard Pythagorean Theorem earth drop calculation that shows a 6 foot drop over 3 miles assuming an altitude of 0...

The same method is described here under the Pythagorean Theorem section: http://flatvsround.blogspot.com/2015/10/how-to-calculate-earths-curvature.html
Yes. So. If the laser height was 0 feet then the two measured heights on the boat would have been 0 feet and 6 feet.
But the laser wasn't at 0 feet, it was about 2 feet. So the measured heights were 2 feet and 8 feet.
I have proved that so long as the laser is parallel to the ground the DIFFERENCE is the same regardless of laser height, if you still don't understand that proof then find someone better at math than you and get them to explain it to you. I shouldn't really need to explain that with a diagram, that is what parallel means.
I thought after Stagirl did a better version of the diagram I attempted you actually understood this.
You claimed that:

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they say that it reached a point where it should be if it originated from zero altitude. This is wrong in RET, and shows fraud.

I asked you to point me to the bit of the video where they say that and you couldn't, because they don't. The second measurement is clearly much more than 6 feet off the water, the guy has to stand on the side of the boat and reach up to measure it. So what is your basis for claiming that the experiment is fraudulent?

Jerad claims that Stephen Hawking died years ago - too ridiculous to respond to.

He claims that the difference is 10 inches at 500 feet - his only basis for that is a rough estimate from a still and if he was correct then that extrapolates to 24 feet at 3 miles so clearly makes no sense.

He asks why you can see the laser when his own earth curve calculator shows that you should be able to given a viewer height of a couple of feet or more.

He claims that you can see the laser is angling upwards and "shooting off into space" but deliberately ignores perspective. Are these lamps shooting off into space or are they the same height?



He then dishonestly uses that perspective angle to claim the lake must be tilting at a ridiculous angle.

He then claims the difference should have been 1 foot because they didn't take into account viewer height - I have proven this is incorrect and I think you have finally understood the difference between how much of the boat you can see and where the laser hits the boat if it is parallel to the ground and the ground curves away.

I don't know why you're talking about the tilt of the boat, how is that relevant?
There would be a very slight tilt of (3 / 24901) x 360 = 0.043 degrees (24901 being the circumference of earth)
This is not enough to make any significant difference to the calculation of 6 feet or where the laser would hit the boat.

So do you still have any objection to the first experiment?

The second experiment your only hope is that the height they give is incorrect which is possible but doesn't change the fact that the helicopter is disappearing behind a hill of water and rising from it, something your mate Rowbotham says doesn't happen. Where does it go?

You are so desperate to try and find any problem with this because it proves your world-view wrong. Your objections to the first experiment keep changing as I and others show them to to be spurious. Your problem is you don't understand this stuff anywhere near as well as you think you do. All your objections to the first experiment are either based on your own misunderstanding of what the experiment actually is or Jerad's craziness.

What exactly is the motive for fraud anyway?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2018, 10:25:07 AM »
For speed I've assumed that AC = 3, the same as the distance travelled. This is not quite correct, 3 is actually the distance around the arc of the circle but the angle is so small that the error is negligible.

I've calculated it correctly (assuming the Earth is a perfect sphere) and the difference is less than 0.35 milimeters.
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2018, 12:15:34 PM »
For speed I've assumed that AC = 3, the same as the distance travelled. This is not quite correct, 3 is actually the distance around the arc of the circle but the angle is so small that the error is negligible.

I've calculated it correctly (assuming the Earth is a perfect sphere) and the difference is less than 0.35 milimeters.
Wow. I'm impressed. I just looked again at Tom's last post and this comment

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They came up with numbers that would be the case if the observer height were 0. Fraud.

He still doesn't understand that laser experiment.
And here's a thought, maybe if observations match calculations from a theory then it's because the theory is correct.
Just throwing that out there.

It's like calculating how long a body takes to fall from a certain height under gravity and then measuring it, finding the time matches the theory and then declaring that suspicious.

And it's a bit rich coming from someone who claims to have done an experiment where from 23 miles away across a bay he can see from 20 inches high the distant beach all the way down to the shoreline but has provided no evidence of that claim at all. That would also mean across a 23 mile stretch of water there is not a single wave more than 20 inches high in between him and the distant beach. I think it's clear who the fraud is here...
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2018, 01:55:14 PM »

It's pretty clear that the experiments were fraudulent to me. They didn't just come up with random numbers. They came up with numbers that would be the case if the observer height were 0. Fraud.

Saying fraud over and over again doesn't change the fact that you misunderstand the experiment.  The laser is a datum line and can be assumed to be at H=0.  This was shown to be mathematically true earlier in the thread which you have done nothing to rebut.  Perhaps you should try and actually engage the arguments instead of looking like the stereotype of what REers say FEers are?
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2018, 02:22:06 PM »
(...)
Quote
I and Stagirl have also explained why how much of the boat the laser can "see" is different from the height difference in where the laser hits the boat at the two distances if the laser starts parallel to the ground and the earth curves away. I have proven that laser height cancels out and doesn't change this difference. You really have no valid objection to the first experiment.

I just did object. You copied a regular Theory of Pythagoras calculation that is used to find the drop. It's the same thing as the online calculator I've linked above.
(...)

So what?

EDIT: By the way, I didn't use Pythagoras Theorem in my calculations and I got the same results.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 02:25:50 PM by Stagiri »
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2018, 01:56:34 AM »

Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2018, 02:17:00 PM »
One of the effects of mass is that it attracts other mass. For small objects, like your computer, your car, and even a building, the force of gravity is tiny. But when you have millions, and even trillions of tonnes of mass, the effect of the gravity really builds up. All of the mass pulls on all the other mass, and it tries to create the most efficient shape… a sphere.

How can I verify this myself?

Try the Cavendish Experiment. The modern versions of it are not to difficult but you need a bit of equipment.

Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2018, 05:04:15 AM »
Found a wonderful experiment with photos and all to once again confirm everything I posted, check it out: https://www.metabunk.org/stand-up-to-detect-the-curve-of-the-earth.t8364/

Flat-heads: there’s no point in debating anything else here. This alone completely destroys the FE hypothesis. Admit it, you bastards :)

With love,

Obviously

JohnAdams1145

Re: The ultimate proof that the Earth is ROUND...
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2018, 05:34:48 AM »
One of the effects of mass is that it attracts other mass. For small objects, like your computer, your car, and even a building, the force of gravity is tiny. But when you have millions, and even trillions of tonnes of mass, the effect of the gravity really builds up. All of the mass pulls on all the other mass, and it tries to create the most efficient shape… a sphere.

How can I verify this myself?

Try the Cavendish Experiment. The modern versions of it are not to difficult but you need a bit of equipment.

It's harder than you think. If any of the balls are charged in any way, then it could be simply explained as a result of that.