[FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralized P2P Blockchain
« on: January 23, 2018, 05:10:48 PM »
Ive been working on a decentralized peer to peer blockchain with its own currency for the Flat Earth community. This could later include features like encrypted file sharing, encrypted messages, even a voting mechanism helping to provide an additional form of democracy amongst the community as a whole. [FEND] would be a distributed ledger created by users joining their computer's cpu power together to form a network capable of handling its own currency transactions and payment processing- outside of and without the help of tyrannical governments and banks.  [FEND] Flat Earth Network Dollars are distributed as block rewards for exchange of one's cpu power that creates the [FEND] blockchain, block by block. These blocks can later be used as a record storage for important Flat Earth data, helping to preserve the truth for many generations to come. Interested in what you all think..
-AV
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 12:20:05 PM by Avante Vandaleur »

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Offline Rushy

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Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 05:31:46 PM »
1. We don't need a currency, we're the Flat Earth Society, not the Flat Earth Central Bank.

2. This website already supports encrypted file sharing, encrypted messaging, and voting features. Why should we use a blockchain to do what this website already does more efficiently?

3. Blockchains are just databases. Very inefficient, decentralized databases. This website is a very efficient centralized database (which has many dozens of backups!). Replacing it with a blockchain would be meaningless.

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Offline Parsifal

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Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 05:36:22 PM »
2. This website already supports encrypted file sharing, encrypted messaging

For some definition of "encrypted"...
How the hell am I supposed to be a moron if I keep educating myself?  >:(

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 05:53:18 PM »
Rushy,
Thank you for your comment. You have provided a great amount of information about bitcoin on this forum. Great work.

I do not propose a central bank. The Flat Earth community deserves its own currency as much as every society or group or community.. as most all will implement some kind of future community currency. [FEND] is proposed as a decentralized currency distributed FAIRLY to its community through the mining process. (Not a token created and sold to the community) And while bitcoin's network has been a success in security- it has failed in decentralization of its currency. [FEND] would be accessible to mine by the average PC user and resistant to ASIC.


Blockchains are databases, true. But decentralized databases. Centralized databases are single point of failure. I do not propose a replacement to anything. Merely a supplemental tool to assist in the preservation of truth for all. Shouldn't we all, especially as Flat Earthers, have a duty to support such tools?   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 08:43:24 PM by Avante Vandaleur »

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 06:31:21 PM »
Why?
We produce nothing worth selling and such a currency would really only be usable inside the society.

You might as well try to sell arcade tokens from Chuck E' Cheeses.

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 06:44:58 PM »
Why?
We produce nothing worth selling and such a currency would really only be usable inside the society.

You might as well try to sell arcade tokens from Chuck E' Cheeses.
thank you for your comment.


The currency would be usable inside the community, as well as outside, by converting to bitcoin or other digital currency, and even fiat if desired.

Any content contributed in the community that is forwarding of the Flat Earth movement should be considered as having value.  See Steemit platform for an example.

Also, once again- my proposition does not involve selling anything to anyone. Users are rewarded thru block rewards as they contribute hash power to the network. 

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 06:49:44 PM »
Why?
We produce nothing worth selling and such a currency would really only be usable inside the society.

You might as well try to sell arcade tokens from Chuck E' Cheeses.
thank you for your comment.


The currency would be usable inside the community, as well as outside, by converting to bitcoin or other digital currency, and even fiat if desired.

Any content contributed in the community that is forwarding of the Flat Earth movement should be considered as having value.  See Steemit platform for an example.

Also, once again- my proposition does not involve selling anything to anyone. Users are rewarded thru block rewards as they contribute hash power to the network.

Now, I may not know how digital currency works but I strongly suspect that converting it would require the currency in question to have some value or can be backed by some value.  Ex: The Norwegian kroner is used in Norway to purchase goods and services.  Outside of Norway, it's useless but can be converted to Euros or Dollars because the Norwegian government guarantees the value and that someone will want Norwegian Kroner.

The question then is: who would want FEND?  How would we ensure it's value?  What value would it have to others?

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Offline junker

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Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 06:59:48 PM »
I love my scamcoins, but even I wouldn't touch this particular scamcoin.
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Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 07:03:53 PM »

Now, I may not know how digital currency works but I strongly suspect that converting it would require the currency in question to have some value or can be backed by some value.  Ex: The Norwegian kroner is used in Norway to purchase goods and services.  Outside of Norway, it's useless but can be converted to Euros or Dollars because the Norwegian government guarantees the value and that someone will want Norwegian Kroner.

The question then is: who would want FEND?  How would we ensure it's value?  What value would it have to others?
Value is merely perception, (as with most things) but it will mostly be created by the total currency supply and will be backed by the energy it takes to produce a FEND currency unit, as well as the security & strength of the network of users.
Also the currency's usability, and of course exchange market traders will have a speculative effect on price/value just as any other market currency or commodity. 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 08:36:26 PM by Avante Vandaleur »

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 07:14:19 PM »
I love my scamcoins, but even I wouldn't touch this particular scamcoin.
thanks for your comment.


The state of cryptocurrencies are indeed littered with scams. Most all of these scams have the origins of an ERC-20 "token" which is created in total supply instantly (premined) and later sold to distribute the "shares"

What I propose is a mineable currency that is distributed equally and fairly based on user participation in powering a network for the community. These block rewards will be available to anyone mining over an emission course of the next 30 years.

This is to include- not exclude.
To prosper not one, or few- but rather the Flat Earth community as a whole
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 08:40:47 PM by Avante Vandaleur »

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 11:33:00 PM »
anyone interested in mining a little bit?
Start a currency/network to last for generations..?

JohnAdams1145

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 08:55:41 AM »
You won't get encrypted file sharing because blockchain state is public, and there's no feasible way to establish a decentralized PKI without substantial human intervention. The same goes for encrypted message sending: without face-to-face interaction you're placing the same trust in some out-of-band communication to bind keys to identity to stop MITM impersonators.

As for file storage, one may consider something like IPFS or Dat that is far more robust and economical. Public data like forum posts may be stored more cheaply this way, but storage is already very cheap.

You also need to be aware of a 99% attack. Round Earthers have thousands of times more computing power.

An ERC-20 token at least wouldn't have that problem.

Any sort of Proof-Of-Work currency is going to be very hard to mine on a CPU because it inherently involves a lot of parallelizable things that could get run on a high end GPU, which has a reasonable ISA. So even if you make it memory hard, the RE people can execute it much faster than you.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 09:01:01 AM by JohnAdams1145 »

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2018, 06:11:38 AM »
You won't get encrypted file sharing because blockchain state is public, and there's no feasible way to establish a decentralized PKI without substantial human intervention. The same goes for encrypted message sending: without face-to-face interaction you're placing the same trust in some out-of-band communication to bind keys to identity to stop MITM impersonators.

As for file storage, one may consider something like IPFS or Dat that is far more robust and economical. Public data like forum posts may be stored more cheaply this way, but storage is already very cheap.

You also need to be aware of a 99% attack. Round Earthers have thousands of times more computing power.

An ERC-20 token at least wouldn't have that problem.

Any sort of Proof-Of-Work currency is going to be very hard to mine on a CPU because it inherently involves a lot of parallelizable things that could get run on a high end GPU, which has a reasonable ISA. So even if you make it memory hard, the RE people can execute it much faster than you.


Dig it man. Thanks for your insight. Very valuable and valid points.
An ERC-20 token is nothing but a ticket to sell. Most truly created from nothing, but sold for something..? Unless it offers a dividend..
it is a scam.

The F.E.N.D. acronym has more meaning and relevance to the project than just being a perfect acronym. ;) By using the proof of work algorithm, it will assist in fair distribution of Flat Earth Network Dollars for many years to come- (60+years, not just early adopters) this will allow Flat Earth community members a way to 'fend' for ourselves- creating value by helping secure a decentralized and private blockchain network, while being rewarded for it. Later using the Flat Earth Network Dollar as a form of transferring value across and outside the network in exchange for goods, services, etc.

51% attack on the network should be a massive undertaking once the network reaches a decent level of users. Even a fair amount of users. Cryptonight hashing algorithm is asic resistant and gpu limiting. It is designed to become inefficient in parallel ops and makes use of random access speeds instead. Boulderhash is a cool algo that fully reaches to new levels of memory hard hashing.. uses 13gb of ram to avoid the zombie farm botnet mining scenario. While not everyone has 13GB of ram laying around or installed... it would still be a very small investment in hardware to become a miner for the network. Though we are still speaking in theory, not practice. We all know such a Flat Earth network would be attacked at some point. We must learn to not only expect it... but welcome it. An additional meaning of the word FEND is actively protecting, not defending.


Encrypted p2p messaging is already active in-wallet features in quite a few blockchain networks..Digitalnote, espers, etc

As for file sharing, I do not disagree. But to think what is possible and available today will be the same tomorrow - is incredibly short sighted. You seem to have a great mind for networking protocols. Im not proposing anything that has already been done. Theres an ERC20 token for that. Im here to assist in tearing the roof off this mother.
How much is a p2p blockchain's connections different from a p2p file sharing network's connections....? Not enough to be deterred. If nothing else a private connection to IPFS could suffice.

The internet has already changed, my friends. Only the reboot is yet to come.

-AV
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 06:12:34 PM by Avante Vandaleur »

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2018, 10:17:47 PM »
or as MJ so elequently ruint.. "the ceiling is the roof, guys."

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2018, 11:03:51 PM »
Are you creating a blockchain because you like ponzi schemes or is your blockchain going to do anything useful?

Ethereum eats contracts
Bitcoin eats piggybanks
Civic eats identity fraud
Filecoin eats file storage
Ripple eats transactions

What does FEND eat and how valuable is that as a useful service?

Alternatively why don't we just create turtlecoin.

My whitepaper
Turtlecoin is designed to get you a lamborghini.
You buy the coins and hodl until you have enough to cash out and buy a lamborghini.
You buy for pennies and you sell for dollars.
The next wave buy for dollars and sell for hundreds of dollars.
The next for for hundreds and sell for thousands.
Everyone gets a lamborghini.
But what happens to the last people to buy, you ask? Don't they get screwed? No, its lambos all the way up and turtles all the way down.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 12:34:16 AM by Baby Thork »
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Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2018, 11:43:31 PM »
Are you creating a blockchain because you like ponzi schemes or is your blockchain going to do anything useful?

Ethereum eats contracts
Bitcoin eats piggybanks
Civic eats identity fraud
Filecoin eats file storage
Ripple eats transactions

What does FEND eat and how valuable is that as a useful service?

Alternatively why don't we just create turtlecoin.

My whitepaper
Turtlecoin is designed to get you a lamborghini.
You buy the coins and hodl until you have enough to cash out and buy a lamborghini.
You buy for pennies and you sell for dollars.
The next wave buy for dollars and sell for hundreds of dollars.
The next for for hundreds and sell for thousands.
Everyone gets a lamborghini.
But what happens to the last people to buy, you ask? Don't they get screwed? No, its turtles all the way down.

Hey,
I like that. Rare tact, sir.

"I like turtles."

Id probably even mine on the network to get some.  Might not 'buy' em BUT only because Im savvy enough to know how the mining technology works.... and that I can earn them if I can support the network with enough hashrate / processing power.

F.E.N.D eats the veil
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 01:26:21 AM by Avante Vandaleur »

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Offline Rushy

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Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2018, 12:27:35 AM »
Ripple isn't a blockchain or cryptocurrency, Thork. You might be thinking of XRP, which isn't anything like those others you listed because it's a centralized transaction scheme. There's two different ledgers that Ripple (the company) keeps track of. There's Ripple, the system used by banks, and XRP, the open source system centralized to their verification servers.

It's a common mistake, but it's important to point out that neither Ripple nor XRP are decentralized blockchain services.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 12:30:27 AM by Rushy »

Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2018, 01:11:01 AM »
Ripple isn't a blockchain or cryptocurrency, Thork. You might be thinking of XRP, which isn't anything like those others you listed because it's a centralized transaction scheme. There's two different ledgers that Ripple (the company) keeps track of. There's Ripple, the system used by banks, and XRP, the open source system centralized to their verification servers.

It's a common mistake, but it's important to point out that neither Ripple nor XRP are decentralized blockchain services.
It wasn't a mistake. It is needless extra explanation that would not have served to highlight my point.

By the way, have they taken your house away yet or are you waiting for $5000 bitcoin?
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Offline junker

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Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2018, 01:46:01 AM »
It wasn't a mistake.

It literally was a mistake. I'd suggest thanking Rushy for the correction and free info he gave you.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: [FEND] Flat Earth Network Decentralised P2P Blockchain
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2018, 01:58:21 AM »
It wasn't a mistake.

It not being a mistake doesn't make it correct information.

It is needless extra explanation that would not have served to highlight my point.

How does including something that isn't a blockchain highlight a point you're trying to make about blockchains?  ???

By the way, have they taken your house away yet or are you waiting for $5000 bitcoin?

Could you rephrase this into a point?