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Offline junker

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2060 on: December 26, 2020, 04:17:46 AM »
Rogue One is better than 7/8/9 and it isn't particularly close.

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2061 on: December 26, 2020, 11:55:00 AM »
I know how it feels to be part of a vocal dissent to general acclaim, but I just can't bring myself to sympathize with these fans. They're actively pushing back against attempts at more thoughtful storytelling, and are instead loudly clamoring for shallow, nostalgia-fueled pandering to them, and them specifically. It's such an unhealthy attitude to have, and I think Disney is making a big mistake in catering to them so heavily.
It's the age old debate of "Please don't change our franchise beyond recognition, and go make your own if you'd like to watch something else". People like consistency, and Star Wars is still largely associated with the old trilogy. It's naive, shallow, predictable, and that's fine. Many people enjoy that. Let them keep enjoying it instead of insisting that it needs to suddenly become dEePeR.

I'm sure JJ Abrams is perfectly capable of creating a space drama with deep, thoughtful storytelling and thought-provoking stunning-and-brave characters without hijacking Star Wars. Hell, I'm sure most of the die-hard SW fans would enjoy it, too. Luckily, that discussion happened, and Disney quietly acknowledged their error and went back to making Star Wars. I hope your niche gets filled too at some point.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 11:59:05 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Online honk

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2062 on: December 26, 2020, 10:27:04 PM »
It's the age old debate of "Please don't change our franchise beyond recognition, and go make your own if you'd like to watch something else". People like consistency, and Star Wars is still largely associated with the old trilogy. It's naive, shallow, predictable, and that's fine. Many people enjoy that. Let them keep enjoying it instead of insisting that it needs to suddenly become dEePeR.

I'm sure JJ Abrams is perfectly capable of creating a space drama with deep, thoughtful storytelling and thought-provoking stunning-and-brave characters without hijacking Star Wars. Hell, I'm sure most of the die-hard SW fans would enjoy it, too. Luckily, that discussion happened, and Disney quietly acknowledged their error and went back to making Star Wars. I hope your niche gets filled too at some point.

Of course it's still associated with the old trilogy, because that's all there is to mainstream audiences - that and the prequels, which everyone but Lucas agrees were terrible. The franchise will never grow and attract new fans if the main purpose of the new movies is to just reaffirm how great the OT is and how great you are for being a fan of it. Imagine if Nolan's Batman movies were just nostalgic remakes/remixes of the Burton movies, or if the Daniel Craig Bond movies were just nostalgic remakes/remixes of the Connery movies. I also take issue with your labeling of SW as our franchise, because that sort of gatekeeping and claimed ownership of certain types of media is just a toxic mindset. SW was originally meant for kids/families, so shouldn't new SW movies be aimed at new generations of kids/families, rather than the adult fanboys who remember watching the first SW movies as kids?

In any case, The Mandalorian has been acclaimed, and so have scenes of dudes with lightsabers mowing through waves of enemies, despite a conspicuous lack of them in the OT, so I think this less a case of true SW fans simply rejecting that which is unfaithful to the OT and more of the loudest voices in geek media - Gen. X/millennial men who love violent action movies and video games - being treated as if they're representative of SW fandom.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2063 on: December 26, 2020, 11:12:37 PM »
A substantial portion of people love the prequels. I’ve found it depends on what you grew up with.
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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2064 on: December 27, 2020, 06:25:44 AM »
I'm sure JJ Abrams is perfectly capable of creating a space drama with deep, thoughtful storytelling and thought-provoking stunning-and-brave characters without hijacking Star Wars.

Don't you dare blame JJ for this. JJ is wonderful and brought us amazing shows like Fringe and Lost, and semi-passable spaceshit with episodes 7 and 9. Rian Johnson did meme movies like Looper and then ruined spaceshit with TLJ; followed that up with Knives Out which was junk beginning to end.

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2065 on: December 27, 2020, 01:17:36 PM »
I also take issue with your labeling of SW as our franchise, because that sort of gatekeeping and claimed ownership of certain types of media is just a toxic mindset.
As an entryist who cheered when they tried to fuck up SW - yeah, you would take issue with that. Luckily, these attempts are very rarely successful, as we keep finding out time and time again.

I won't take your accusations of toxicity too seriously. Previously, you accused me of being toxic for claiming that Holdo's character was obvious SJW pandering, and we both know how that went. But, just in case, I'll try to rephrase:

Don't turn old franchises into le meme culture war. Make your own franchises, and let people decide how much they care for them. If this means that old franchises "will never grow" - great, that leaves more space for the franchises you'd like to see to grow in their place! No toxicity, no gatekeepers, just a wonderful breath of fresh air. Of course, there is a reason some creators fear this sort of level playing field and keep trying to hijack existing stuff. I wonder what it might be.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 01:21:12 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline beardo

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2066 on: December 27, 2020, 02:17:27 PM »
sadaaming hard ITT
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Online honk

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2067 on: December 28, 2020, 03:34:58 AM »
I also take issue with your labeling of SW as our franchise, because that sort of gatekeeping and claimed ownership of certain types of media is just a toxic mindset.
As an entryist who cheered when they tried to fuck up SW - yeah, you would take issue with that. Luckily, these attempts are very rarely successful, as we keep finding out time and time again.

I won't take your accusations of toxicity too seriously. Previously, you accused me of being toxic for claiming that Holdo's character was obvious SJW pandering, and we both know how that went. But, just in case, I'll try to rephrase:

Don't turn old franchises into le meme culture war. Make your own franchises, and let people decide how much they care for them. If this means that old franchises "will never grow" - great, that leaves more space for the franchises you'd like to see to grow in their place! No toxicity, no gatekeepers, just a wonderful breath of fresh air. Of course, there is a reason some creators fear this sort of level playing field and keep trying to hijack existing stuff. I wonder what it might be.

I'm not in favor of turning SW into a vehicle for divisive political messaging. Surely the fact that, as you noted, I didn't even believe at first that the dumb Holdo plot was a political allegory was a pretty good indicator of my not being keen on putting weird political messages into the movies? The backlash to TLJ involved a lot more than objecting to perceived political content, and you can almost see a laundry list of them being checked off in TRoS. Vocal fanboys disliked Rose, so she was demoted to a bit part with only a minute of screen time. Vocal fanboys disliked seeing Luke as a broken-down cynic, so he appeared as a ghost to explicitly spell out that he was totally wrong about everything in TLJ and that his infamous establishing character moment of throwing away his old lightsaber was definitely a mistake on his part. Vocal fanboys didn't like the heroine being revealed to be of truly humble origins, so they retconned her backstory to include a dumb "I am your father" twist and (perhaps unintentionally) reinforce the idea that the Force is something reserved for a select few chosen ones and special bloodlines. And vocal fanboys didn't like that the Palpatine-like Snoke had been killed and Kylo positioned as the main villain, so (in what I still maintain is TRoS's single worst concession to fanboys) Palpatine himself was resurrected to be the main villain of the trilogy. The common denominator in these complaints isn't a rejection of unwelcome political messages, it's wanting a nostalgic retread of the original trilogy for the benefit of adult fans of those movies. That is, in my view, a very poor and short-sighted creative decision. It's not unreasonable to hope for something newer and more thoughtful than that. They could come up with new characters, new stories, new themes, etc. It would still be SW, just a fresh take on it.

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Kyle Katarn never canonically existed. The real hero(ine) who discovered the Death Star's weakness was a plucky young rebel named Mary Sue, aided by her ragtag band of diverse misfits.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2068 on: December 28, 2020, 03:41:25 AM »
Implying Mary Sue needed help. Cis-male scum.
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Offline junker

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2069 on: December 28, 2020, 09:06:05 PM »
Soul (2020)

Good movie. Off the chains visuals and music. You will probably cry unless you are a sociopath. Still nowhere near Pixar's best works like Coco.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2070 on: December 29, 2020, 06:06:04 AM »
WW84

That movie can eat a dick. It was awful.
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Offline Clyde Frog

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2071 on: December 29, 2020, 11:57:40 PM »
Soul (2020)

Good movie. Off the chains visuals and music. You will probably cry unless you are a sociopath. Still nowhere near Pixar's best works like Coco.
They really nailed the whole "In the zone" thing. They made it look the way it feels in a way I don't think I've seen in a movie before. And Jon Batiste's playing was perfect for what they were doing.

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Re: Just Watched
« Reply #2072 on: January 16, 2021, 05:27:57 PM »
Watched Dredd. Pretty fun bit of violent dumbassery.