[Rama Set]

I would never disagree that there is strong or good chance the universe would unfold in the way it did. I would also never claim a statistic falsely to prop up my argument.

[Rama Set]

Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

So who anticipated it?

What did: the laws of physics.

[DDDDAts all folks]

Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

Why do laws have to predict the set of possible outcomes?

The theory of quantum mechanics relies on the fact that you can't predict it's outcome but it's bounded by a set of laws.

[Roundy]

Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

So who anticipated it?

What did: the laws of physics.

How did an insentient concept anticipate something?

[spank86]

The vast majority of people have always believed in a deity or deities.

and presumably you believe that the vast majority of those people are wrong at least in their choice of deities?

I don't need sources to continue to do what humans have always done. It is the atheist who is proposing that I reject belief in the guiding philosophy of my people for the last 5,000+ yrs.

yes, go out, eat shellfish, have fun.

I suggest that the onus of proof is on the atheist. As far as making up statistics, I don't think I'm stretching or being desperate when I say that all the universe happening by accident is unlikely. Ever play 52 Pickup?

If there's enough planets in the universe then the chances of one spawning life could actually be very high no matter what the chances of life occurring. You just need enough planets and enough time.

[Vindictus]

Theoretically possible. Statistically highly unlikely. For every single atom to be just right even on Earth to allow for intelligent life is a 1 in several million chance. That it happened elsewhere also? Much harder to conceive. But, I weary of the battle since neither of us is likely to win the other over to our point of view. What say we change the topic?

Even assuming this random figure, life would have to happen somewhere and who is to say Earth isn't it?

Also, abiogenesis doesn't require "every single atom to be just right".

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I didn't make up a statistic. I merely said the odds are about as likely as winning the Iowa lottery (please play responsibly).   If I'd wanted to make that up, I'd have used real numbers. As re: the majority of the world being wrong about its choice of deity, neither I nor any other Jew ever said that. I know what God has revealed to us, & how I must live to please him. What he may or may not have revealed to Gentiles is beyond my capacity to know. I can't evaluate non-Jewish revelation, except to see how it makes sense w/ what we have.

[Rushy]

I didn't make up a statistic. I merely said the odds are about as likely as winning the Iowa lottery (please play responsibly).

Yes, that is called making up a statistic. I was under the impression most Jews are college educated.

[Rama Set]

Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

Why do laws have to predict the set of possible outcomes?

The theory of quantum mechanics relies on the fact that you can't predict it's outcome but it's bounded by a set of laws.

Quantum mechanics does not predict a single outcome, but it definitely predicts the set of possible outcomes.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Like I said, I was making a general statement. Making up a statistic would be saying something like '1 in 6,596,312 chance'. But if you prefer, drop numbers. I believe the odds are small that an ordered universe could come from nothing. Like I said, ever play 52 Pickup? You believe otherwise. Since theism is the default position of most people in the world, the onus is on the atheist to prove us wrong. Ultimately, the question can't be resolved w/ certainty, obviously. And yes, to answer your implied question, I have 2 degrees & a graduate degree, thank you.

[Rushy]

Like I said, I was making a general statement. Making up a statistic would be saying something like '1 in 6,596,312 chance'. But if you prefer, drop numbers. I believe the odds are small that an ordered universe could come from nothing. Like I said, ever play 52 Pickup? You believe otherwise. Since theism is the default position of most people in the world, the onus is on the atheist to prove us wrong. Ultimately, the question can't be resolved w/ certainty, obviously. And yes, to answe your implied question, I have 2 degrees & a graduate degree, thank you.

Ah, in that case I have two graduate degrees and a doctorate. I mean, if you're going to make shit up, might as well do it full steam ahead, eh? Look, your posting history paints the picture for me. Your incessant trolling isn't even amusing anymore.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, if I were a complete fool, I would give you the name of the institution, my Gentile name, & date of graduations. But I'm not such a fool. Believe me or not as you choose. I don't need to prove anything to you. As for trolling, that's a very subjective thing to say.

[Rushy]

Your post history is sort of like a computer driver related discussion I had with PizzaPlanet and Parsifal. I mean, I had no idea what I was talking about, and they knew that, but did I know that? Looking back on it I know that, but I didn't know that at the time. One day you'll look back on this discussion and think to yourself "well, I didn't know it at the time, but I was dumb, and everyone knew it but me."

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Well, alrighty then! That's pretty poor sport, even from you. If you don't wish to continue a discussion, you may say so. Insults are unnecessary. The argument is unwinnable for either of us, since winning would entail one's interlocutor accepting certain premises that he won't by definition.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

As far as the accusations of racism, your point is? I have said nothing untrue. Fine, call them Arabs. The fact is they want Israel destroyed, & have tried doing it 5 times. So no, I don't trust them, & it is my right to choose who I associate w/. & frankly, if I want to call them names, that's also my choice. Let them stop blowing shit up, & then maybe I'll treat them w/ respect.

[Roundy]

The act is starting to unravel, Yaakov.  It was fun while it lasted. 

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Ah, ok.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

& now my damn feet hurt! I'm going to need the ice packs.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Sorry, I know that sounded a bit random. But I have poor circulation in my lower extremities, which causes considerable pain.

[Rama Set]

Like I said, I was making a general statement. Making up a statistic would be saying something like '1 in 6,596,312 chance'. But if you prefer, drop numbers. I believe the odds are small that an ordered universe could come from nothing. Like I said, ever play 52 Pickup? You believe otherwise. Since theism is the default position of most people in the world, the onus is on the atheist to prove us wrong. Ultimately, the question can't be resolved w/ certainty, obviously. And yes, to answer your implied question, I have 2 degrees & a graduate degree, thank you.

Well for someone with so many degrees you seem to have a terrible understanding of how proof works. Let me help you: it is impossible to conclusively prove something does not exist. That being said, I have never experienced a conclusively supernatural event in my life, humans are clinically proven to create false positives in their cognition, humans are prone to wishful thinking and neuroses as well. Based on these facts, it seems plausible that humans imagine supernatural beings and events, and this seems much more plausible than there being a short period of time when a god intervened and no longer does.