Re: Fallout series
« Reply #560 on: May 05, 2016, 06:51:24 PM »
Literally the very first thing we hear is "Please, bring my daughter home."  You know, just in case the parallels to Point Lookout weren't obvious enough.  And it just isn't Fallout unless the main story is a sappy, sentimental family melodrama.  Fuck you, Bethesda.  Also, nice re-using of geckos from NV, you fucking lazy hacks.
I bet you'll still buy it.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

*

Offline beardo

  • *
  • Posts: 4505
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #561 on: May 05, 2016, 06:53:07 PM »
I've already bought it.
The Mastery.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #562 on: May 05, 2016, 09:56:17 PM »
I got the season pass for the game back when I was hoping it would be good.  Last time I ever pre-order a Bethesda game.

*

Offline beardo

  • *
  • Posts: 4505
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #563 on: May 20, 2016, 05:40:41 AM »
Finished Far Harbor main quest tonight. It has some cool looking new mutated giant animals as well as some new weapon and armour types, which is cool, but I was unfortunately not too impressed with the main story. Go figure.
Still haven't explored the entire island, and with all the thick fog and radiation everywhere, the exploration isn't all that fun either.
Protip: Brind Nick with you.
The Mastery.

George

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #564 on: May 21, 2016, 05:03:27 AM »
Holy shit, there are even more Super Mutants in Far Harbor.  I don't believe it.  Why, Bethesda?  Why do you keep rehashing these guys over and over?  They're not particularly interesting (well, the ones on the West Coast are, but the variants that Bethesda has introduced are just mindless savages).  They're not particularly iconic.  There is no reason why they need to be so ubiquitous in the series, and especially not when it stretches the lore's plausibility to this degree.  Oh, but I'm forgetting the wise words of Pete Hines - this is a fanciful universe where things happen that are impossible in ours, which means that there are no rules to how it all works and nothing has to make any sense. ::)

Aside from that bullshit, this add-on isn't too bad, at least so far.  Like beardo mentioned, there are some neat new creatures and gear, and I love the setting.  I really feel like the art team were hampered in the base game by the requirement to make such a generic ruined city that already looked and felt way too similar to what we had in F3.  Here, they were free to be creative, and the big, spooky island they've designed, with its melancholy, foreboding atmosphere, is a welcome departure from the dull Emmerich vibe of the Commonwealth.  I don't expect to be wowed by the story - what I've seen of it so far is really just more of the same "Robots are people too!" theme from the base game - but I think we're all long past caring about that.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 05:27:37 AM by George »

*

Offline beardo

  • *
  • Posts: 4505
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #565 on: May 21, 2016, 06:17:54 AM »
I almost felt bad killing the giant hermit crabs.
The Mastery.

George

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #566 on: May 24, 2016, 05:44:12 PM »
It's a minor point, but I like how the setup for this add-on manages to reduce the sappiness and sentimental factor of searching for a missing family member by having you be a private detective who's formally hired to search for her.  You're not doing this because feeeeeeeeeelings (at least not if you don't want to), you're doing it because it's your job.  It professionalizes matters, much like being a courier in NV did.  Then I got to thinking - wouldn't this have been a much, much better setup for the base game?  You start out as a private detective, you get a very unusual case regarding missing people from a mysterious client, and the main story starts.  Instead of "the Sole Survivor," the PC is "the Detective."  Now there's a good reason why people will give you quests - it's your job.  The ludonarrative dissonance of being free to wander off and do your own thing is resolved if it's no longer your child who's in danger.  And there are plenty of different approaches a detective could take to their work that would support a number of different playstyles.

But if Bethesda's two Fallout titles are enough to show a pattern, then it looks like they don't want to begin a game with the PC already established in the post-war world.  We're always going to have to play as the naïve newcomer who's just emerged from a vault, and I don't understand why.

*

Offline beardo

  • *
  • Posts: 4505
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #567 on: May 24, 2016, 06:51:44 PM »
Because Fallout 1 did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Mastery.

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #568 on: May 24, 2016, 06:57:16 PM »
But if Bethesda's two Fallout titles are enough to show a pattern, then it looks like they don't want to begin a game with the PC already established in the post-war world.  We're always going to have to play as the naïve newcomer who's just emerged from a vault, and I don't understand why.

The narrative benefits of having the player character be clueless are obvious - it ensures that it's always natural for the PC to ask about anything happening in the game world and using it as a device to educate the player in the process. If your character is an already established part of the world and you have them ask who some important figure is or where to go, you'd have to wonder, "why doesn't my character already know this?"

*

Offline Snupes

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1836
  • I summon my love back to me
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #569 on: May 24, 2016, 08:16:17 PM »
tbh they should try just being good at fitting that stuff into the story and world naturally, so they wouldn't have to hamfistedly information kiosk it.
Quote from: garygreen date=1480782226
i also took an online quiz that said i was a giraffe.  and i guess you're dumb enough to believe that i must be because the internet said so.

*

Offline Particle Person

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2868
  • born 2 b b&
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #570 on: May 25, 2016, 05:01:43 PM »
But if Bethesda's two Fallout titles are enough to show a pattern, then it looks like they don't want to begin a game with the PC already established in the post-war world.  We're always going to have to play as the naïve newcomer who's just emerged from a vault, and I don't understand why.

The narrative benefits of having the player character be clueless are obvious - it ensures that it's always natural for the PC to ask about anything happening in the game world and using it as a device to educate the player in the process. If your character is an already established part of the world and you have them ask who some important figure is or where to go, you'd have to wonder, "why doesn't my character already know this?"

amnesia :4)
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

George

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #571 on: May 25, 2016, 10:40:33 PM »
But if Bethesda's two Fallout titles are enough to show a pattern, then it looks like they don't want to begin a game with the PC already established in the post-war world.  We're always going to have to play as the naïve newcomer who's just emerged from a vault, and I don't understand why.

The narrative benefits of having the player character be clueless are obvious - it ensures that it's always natural for the PC to ask about anything happening in the game world and using it as a device to educate the player in the process. If your character is an already established part of the world and you have them ask who some important figure is or where to go, you'd have to wonder, "why doesn't my character already know this?"

There are plenty of ways to provide exposition to the player that don't involve the PC having to ask other characters about it.  In this series, for example, it's long been a tradition that Ron Perlman explains the current state of the world before each game.  Like how before NV, he briefly tells us about the NCR, the Legion, and New Vegas.  That way, there's no need to put in dialogue options where the Courier asks people what's up with this "enseearr" business.  It would have been very easy for Perlman to just explain what's commonly known about all the factions for F4, if they had given him a narration in the first place.

And even if the PC is expected to talk to NPCs for exposition, subtle changes to the dialogue can influence whether or not we would believe that the PC is clueless about the subject.  There's a world of difference between "What do you know about the Institute?" or "Tell me what you know about the Institute," and "What's the Institute?"  The first two options don't necessarily demonstrate that the PC has no idea of what the Institute is - they might just be looking for more information on them.  The final option, however, is the only one that F4 uses, and both the wording and the way that the voice actor speaks in a confused tone of voice make it clear that they're completely ignorant.

George

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #572 on: June 11, 2016, 01:10:30 AM »
I've completed Far Harbor.  It's pretty decent overall.  I mentioned earlier that it has new creatures, new equipment, and a cool new setting, but those aren't the only ways that it improves on the base game.  The bullshit radiant quests are gone, replaced with a number of sidequests that were properly scripted out.  Even the story, despite my previous misgivings, isn't all that bad.  You have to deal with three factions that are at each other's throats, like the base game, but unlike the base game, you actually have options on how to resolve the situation peacefully, and aren't forced to take part in a genocide if you don't want to.  Is there more bad cribbing from Blade Runner, of course, but at least this time you aren't given a prescriptive role in the story, and thank God, there's no weepy family melodrama forcing itself front and center this time.  Seriously, I know I've complained about that last point a lot, but it deserves stressing.  Bethesda is the last dev in the world that should be trying to tell these personal, emotional stories about love and family.  You can't half-ass a story like that.  To do it well, you really need to go all in and focus on that element.  For a dev like Bethesda, which doesn't even bother hiring professional writers to do their writing, the idea of prioritizing good writing like that is a joke.

One thing that I will criticize, although it's a minor point, is how companions are handled.  You're expected to bring Nick along, because part of his backstory is revealed on the island, and so there's a lot of dialogue with him to that end and all that, but he's the only one.  None of the other companions - except for one guy whom you meet there, but he doesn't really add much to anything - have any situational dialogue or anything to contribute to what's going on.  I suppose it would be pretty difficult to make it so every companion has their own little subplot there, but picking and choosing one doesn't feel right to me.  I prefer what NV did in offering you new companions in its add-ons.

*

Offline Ghost Spaghetti

  • *
  • Posts: 908
  • Don't look in that mirror. It's absolutely furious
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #573 on: June 13, 2016, 08:10:01 AM »
Quote
You can't half-ass a story like that.  To do it well, you really need to go all in and focus on that element.  For a dev like Bethesda, which doesn't even bother hiring professional writers to do their writing, the idea of prioritizing good writing like that is a joke.

This. I wake up having just witnessed the apocalypse, my spouse murdered and my potatochild kidnapped, and apparently I'm supposed to care about some douchebags in power armour or the plight of some nobodies living in shacks?

*

Offline beardo

  • *
  • Posts: 4505
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #574 on: June 13, 2016, 09:53:40 AM »
no, you don't have to.
The Mastery.

George

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #575 on: June 14, 2016, 11:45:54 PM »
As far as your character's dialogue is concerned, you pretty much do have to.  You're either a good guy who's eager to help out, or a good guy who makes sarcastic comments, but is still willing to help out.

*

Offline beardo

  • *
  • Posts: 4505
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #576 on: June 15, 2016, 12:20:06 PM »
You don't have to join any faction. You can deny all their invitations.
The Mastery.

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #577 on: June 15, 2016, 11:59:04 PM »
As far as your character's dialogue is concerned, you pretty much do have to.  You're either a good guy who's eager to help out, or a good guy who makes sarcastic comments, but is still willing to help out.

So, this new fallout prevents you from being evil? How did they manage to make it really that much worse than Fallout 3?

George

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #578 on: June 16, 2016, 03:34:29 AM »
You don't have to join any faction. You can deny all their invitations.

You have to side with one to complete the game, and you have to work your way up the ranks doing shitty radiant quests (or quests that might as well be radiant) before they give you the option of completing the game.

So, this new fallout prevents you from being evil? How did they manage to make it really that much worse than Fallout 3?

A small handful of "evil" options are offered throughout the game, like the chance to sell the kid in a fridge (I winced typing that) to the Gunners, but it's very much the least the game could have done.  Speaking of the Gunners, another thing that bothers me about Bethesda's run on this franchise is their obvious lack of interest in fleshing out and providing context to enemy factions beyond the fact that they're trying to kill you.  Just like in F3, the majority of enemy NPCs are "raiders," who are apparently all allied with one another despite being scattered all over the map.  Another big group is the Gunners, who are, once again, scattered all over the map and still all allied with one another.  Who are these people?  Where did they come from?  Where did they get their equipment?  Do they have leaders?  Why do they all want you dead?  Occasionally you'll find a terminal entry establishing some motivation for a local group, which is nice, but it's very slim.  Bethesda seems to care more about giving you cannon fodder to blast through than making sure that these factions make sense and feel like a natural part of the world.

*

Offline beardo

  • *
  • Posts: 4505
    • View Profile
Re: Fallout series
« Reply #579 on: June 16, 2016, 06:11:49 AM »
You don't have to join any faction. You can deny all their invitations.

You have to side with one to complete the game, and you have to work your way up the ranks doing shitty radiant quests (or quests that might as well be radiant) before they give you the option of completing the game.
You need their help getting the equipment set up. But obviously they won't help you unless you also help them with something, which makes perfect sense. A favour for a favour. If you don't want to feel like you have to "join" them, just pretend you're using them to further your goal. After that, you don't have to give a shit about that faction anymore.
The Mastery.