Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #340 on: October 25, 2014, 11:32:42 PM »
I don't think the problem is so much that the story "ended" the game.

Neither do I.  The problem is that the game very abruptly presents you with a clear-cut, black-and-white choice of "Be a martyr or be a selfish asshole," completely ignores the fact that there are other options that ought to be available to you (stacking up on radiation resistance, for example, or sending an immune companion in), and then gives you an ending cutscene that consists of nothing more than condescendingly patting you on the head for being good or condescendingly frowning and shaking its head at you for being bad.

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I think the Broken Steel ending was an improvement.

I agree, but only for the reasons I mentioned above.

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This is a game, first and foremost. I prefer open-world games to be open-ended even after the main story is completed.

I strongly disagree, at least as far as Fallout is concerned.  By having a concrete ending where the futures of the settlements and characters that you encounter are explained, it confers a powerful sense of responsibility on the player.  Your actions have consequences, and if you care at all about the world you're exploring and impacting, you need to use your considerable power wisely to make sure that everyone gets the ending they deserve.  In F1, F2, and NV, if a particular ending popped up that I hadn't planned for, say, as the result of a quest I forgot or didn't bother completing, it felt like a punch to the gut.  It wasn't that the game itself was outright calling me an asshole, unlike F3 (seriously, that game was way too judgmental, especially with Three Dog pretty much chronicling your every move), it was that I felt responsible for neglecting something that needed my attention.

That all goes out the window if the game just keeps on going.  It's back to the usual "just do whatever, whenever" that most open-world games already adhere to.  I'm sure that some people prefer that to the distinct ending, but personally, I felt that it was unique and cool, and I'd hate to see the franchise drop it.

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The problems is how Bethesda handled it. Your actions throughout the story don't really impact the Capital Wasteland, not because the game continues after the ending but because Bethesda simply didn't code it that way. If Fallout 3 was designed better it wouldn't be a problem. I feel like laziness on the developers part is to blame here. Oblivion made the same mistakes.

At least blowing up Megaton had a noticeable change on the game-world, although that wasn't handled very well either.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about here, or how it's any different to any of the other games in the franchise.  The big changes happen after the events of the game.  Years and years after.  They're long-term changes, not immediate ones.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 04:57:16 AM by Saddam Hussein »

Ghost of V

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #341 on: October 26, 2014, 12:48:11 AM »
Didn't the original ending give you an option to sacrifice your aide and save yourself? I haven't played Fallout 3 since Broken Steel was released.

Ghost of V

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #342 on: October 26, 2014, 02:17:36 AM »
Vauxhall I hate you now. But don't worry nobody likes me.

Where is this coming from?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #343 on: October 26, 2014, 02:19:07 AM »
Didn't the original ending give you an option to sacrifice your aide and save yourself? I haven't played Fallout 3 since Broken Steel was released.

Yes, but you still "died" and the game ended. Also, for whatever reason, Fawkes would never help you, despite the fact he is fucking immune to radiation and his going in there was the single most logical choice to make.

Where is this coming from?

Just add him to your ignore list. It saves you scroll room, time, and brain cells. You're not missing out on some sort of awesome addition of content to the site by doing so. There is literally no downside.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #344 on: October 26, 2014, 03:21:53 AM »
Vongeo'd.  Anyway, you can send Sarah Lyons instead of yourself, but you can't send a companion.  Even though some of them are immune to radiation and could easily do it without anyone getting hurt, they'll still just say no.  Now, when Broken Steel was added, they would agree to do it.  But the funny thing about taking that option is that Bethesda was too lazy and/or cheap to get Perlman to come back and record some new dialogue for the "ending" cutscene, so they left that unchanged, and the only question the game asks itself before triggering the cutscene is whether or not the player went in themselves.  So the game will still call you a cowardly asshole simply for doing the smart thing and making sure that nobody gets hurt.

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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #345 on: October 26, 2014, 05:34:07 AM »
If anyone hasn't noticed by now, my opinion of F3 has gone down dramatically over the past year or so, partially due to Crudblud's wise words, but also because I've played through the original two games and realized firsthand just how much Bethesda screwed up with the franchise.
Another victory for FO!

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #346 on: October 26, 2014, 07:35:47 PM »
Also, I really hope they keep the speech/skill checks as they were in NV.  The probability-based system was just a huge invitation to save-scum, while the new system was far more realistic and provided a lot of great humor.  (My favorite skill check was yelling "Robot!  Let me past!" at the Securitrons guarding the Strip.  How I laughed.)  That being said, Bethesda would have to improve their writing considerably for them to be able to match the comedy of the failures or the genuine intelligence/persuasiveness of the successes in NV.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #347 on: October 26, 2014, 07:53:23 PM »
And NPC's should have appropriate responses to dumb dialogues by player characters with low intelligence.
The Mastery.

Ghost of V

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #348 on: October 26, 2014, 07:58:44 PM »
Is it apparent to anyone else that Fallout was obviously inspired by the Deathlands novels?

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Offline beardo

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #349 on: October 26, 2014, 08:01:44 PM »
Maybe to those who have read them.
The Mastery.

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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #350 on: October 27, 2014, 07:16:13 AM »
Is it apparent to anyone else that Fallout was obviously inspired by the Deathlands novels?
I don't know. I doubt anyone who invests the time to read through all that shit (by 1996 there were already 30 novels in the series) has time to make a video game. It is possible, however, that Pilgrimage to Hell from 1986 had an influence on the 1988 Wasteland, to which Fallout was intended as a spiritual successor.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #351 on: October 29, 2014, 01:40:24 PM »
I love Fallout 3. I like it way more than I ever liked Oblivion. I don't know which I like better; NV or FO3. NV plays better for sure, but I preferred FO3's story to NV. It just felt more personal. I could relate more to hunting down my dad than I could to saving/destroying/whatever a Vegas strip.

The story was fine with me but I'm not like you guys- I'm just a filthy casual who really doesn't care that much about an epic story with lots of options or the first two games. It was just a fun game.

Ghost of V

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #352 on: October 29, 2014, 07:52:34 PM »
I like it way more than I ever liked Oblivion.

Must... resist... the... urge... to kill

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #353 on: October 29, 2014, 08:44:37 PM »
I like it way more than I ever liked Oblivion.

Must... resist... the... urge... to kill

That doesn't even come close to being a controversial opinion.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #354 on: October 29, 2014, 09:14:05 PM »
But this one is controversial: I like Oblivion more than I like Morrowind. That one always upsets the bf.

Ghost of V

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #355 on: October 29, 2014, 09:15:00 PM »
But this one is controversial: I like Oblivion more than I like Morrowind. That one always upsets the bf.

confidence restored.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #356 on: October 29, 2014, 09:24:41 PM »
But this one is controversial: I like Oblivion more than I like Morrowind. That one always upsets the bf.

Can something really be considered "controversial" if one side of the issue only has one supporter in the entire world, though?
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #357 on: October 29, 2014, 09:25:06 PM »
I like it way more than I ever liked Oblivion.

Must... resist... the... urge... to kill

That doesn't even come close to being a controversial opinion.

He didn't imply that it was, only that he disagreed.  I don't like it when people pretend that their own dumb and/or obscure opinions are the conventional wisdom or majority opinion either, but that's not what happened here.

Ghost of V

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #358 on: October 29, 2014, 09:26:17 PM »
But this one is controversial: I like Oblivion more than I like Morrowind. That one always upsets the bf.

Can something really be considered "controversial" if one side of the issue only has one supporter in the entire world, though?

Incorrect. I also enjoy Oblivion more than Morrowind, and I also consider it a better game. That makes two supporters. Checkmate morrowfag.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #359 on: October 29, 2014, 09:30:02 PM »
I like it way more than I ever liked Oblivion.

Must... resist... the... urge... to kill

That doesn't even come close to being a controversial opinion.

He didn't imply that it was, only that he disagreed.  I don't like it when people pretend that their own dumb and/or obscure opinions are the conventional wisdom or majority opinion either, but that's not what happened here.

Yes, fair enough. I was just suggesting that it would be in poor taste to kill somebody for having a very reasonable opinion.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.