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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13200 on: June 14, 2025, 04:06:50 PM »
The entire exchange:

Quote
REPORTER: Mr. President, for Americans going to Washington on Saturday —

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It’s going to be a great day.

REPORTER: What would you like folks to take away from that day? What would hope that they would remember? And also, Mr. President, and —

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: How strong our military is, we have the strongest military in the world.

You know, it’s very interesting. Three weeks ago, it was the end of world — uh anniversary, end of World War II. And I called France and Macron — a good man.

I said, “What are you doing?”

He goes, “We’re celebrating World War II, our victory.”

I said “Your victory, your victory. Tell me about that.”

And then I called somebody else and I happened to speak to President Putin at the time. Now, in all fairness to him, he lost 51 million people, and he did fight.

Russia fought, sort of interesting, isn’t it? He fought with us at World War II and everybody hates him.

And Germany and Japan, they’re fine, you know. Someday somebody will explain that. But I like Germany and Japan, too.

But Putin is a little confused by that. You know, he said, we lost 51 million people, and we were your ally. And now everybody hates Russia, and they love Germany and Japan.”

I said, “Let’s explain that sometime, okay?”

But it’s a strange world.

But I will say this. Look, I want them to go away saying how great our country and how great our military is.

And I was making all these calls for some reason. I spoke to like four different places. “Sir, are you celebrating?”

And I said, you know, we won World War II and World War I, right? We won them. And yet we’re the only country that doesn’t celebrate. Everybody’s celebrating except us. And I said we should celebrate too.

I think Tom's interpretation is fair. It's easy to jumble up your pronouns a bit when you're talking a lot. Of course, during Biden's presidency, conservatives disingenuously insisted that every similar verbal slip-up from Biden was actually what Biden really believed (e.g. Biden saying he plans to build a railroad "across the Indian Ocean" must mean that Biden actually thought he could build an underwater railroad spanning the entire Indian Ocean, rather than the more reasonable interpretation that Biden simply had meant "across to the Indian Ocean"), but I won't stoop to such dishonest tactics. It's just a verbal slip-up.

The real problem with this exchange, and one that I hope won't be buried under a wave of "lol Trump thinks that Putin was alive and fighting during WWII!" is that this is yet another reminder of Trump's general ignorance and his malleability at Putin's hands. A few minutes on the relevant articles on Wikipedia would tell anybody who's willing to find out that the Soviet Union, especially under Stalin, was a brutal, oppressive regime that killed far more innocent people than Hitler. The ethics of aligning with such a country, far from being taken for granted, are hotly debated by historians to this day. This is not obscure, niche stuff. It's pretty mainstream. And this would be bad enough if it was Trump once again embarrassing the country by stumbling onto a basic historical controversy and thinking that he's the first person to pose an obvious, sophomoric question, but as Trump tells us, it was Putin who brought this up, meaning that this is once again Putin manipulating Trump. And it's so childish. There really is no better word for it than that. Only a child would think that "But if Russia was our ally in WWII, shouldn't it be our ally now?" is a good, pertinent point.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13201 on: June 14, 2025, 06:44:36 PM »
Russia in WWII was more of a "the enemy of my enemy" alliance of necessity. 
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13202 on: June 14, 2025, 08:03:41 PM »
I think Tom's interpretation is fair.
And how do you think Tom would have interpreted it had Biden said it?
And this is the issue with Tom and the MAGA lot in general. The ones deep in the cult don't care what happens or what is said, they only care who did it. If it's Trump or Vance or one of the other MAGA then it's ThisIsFine.jpg, no matter how egregious what is said or done is. If it's Biden or any other Democrat then it's interpreted in the most unkind and malicious way possible.
It's a level of delusion and intellectual dishonestly which makes debate impossible.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13203 on: Today at 07:15:00 AM »
I think Tom's interpretation is fair.
And how do you think Tom would have interpreted it had Biden said it?
And this is the issue with Tom and the MAGA lot in general. The ones deep in the cult don't care what happens or what is said, they only care who did it. If it's Trump or Vance or one of the other MAGA then it's ThisIsFine.jpg, no matter how egregious what is said or done is. If it's Biden or any other Democrat then it's interpreted in the most unkind and malicious way possible.
It's a level of delusion and intellectual dishonestly which makes debate impossible.

Again: addict.  So addicted to the idea of Trump that logic and reason just does not exist.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13204 on: Today at 09:29:00 AM »
A railroad across any ocean or to any ocean is not just unreasonable, it is simply stupid.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13205 on: Today at 03:53:27 PM »
And how do you think Tom would have interpreted it had Biden said it?

I probably wouldn't have commented. After watching the video or reading the transcript anyone can see that argument that Trump thinks that Putin was in WWII is weak.

I'm not sure why you are still attempting to put Joe Biden on an even level though. Joe Biden's reelection candidacy was rejected by his own party because he was mentally unfit for president. It was an embarrassment.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13206 on: Today at 04:06:31 PM »
And how do you think Tom would have interpreted it had Biden said it?

I probably wouldn't have commented.
Past experience of your posts after every misspeak by Biden tells me different. Or, at the very least, if someone else had brought it up you’d have piled on. That isn’t speculation, there’s a clear pattern in your posting.
Any slight misstep from the people you like and it’s defend and deny. If it’s someone on the other side then it’s all out attack.

I’m not particularly defending Biden, he clearly was mentally unfit for office. But Trump is unfit for office too - in a different way - but because he is your guy the mental backflips you will do to find no fault in him and defend everything he says and does are ridiculous. It’s intellectually dishonest. You must at some level acknowledge that Trump is human and therefore fallible. And yet I don’t recall ever seeing you criticise or condemn anything he says or does. And it’s that which makes you appear like a cult member who is so far gone they can find no fault in their glorious leader. And that’s what makes any honest conversation with you impossible.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13207 on: Today at 04:09:22 PM »
A railroad across any ocean or to any ocean is not just unreasonable, it is simply stupid.
Right?
I mean, once trade cargo gets off the boat at the port, its stupid to use a train to transport it across the country.  Right?
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13208 on: Today at 04:26:26 PM »
Past experience of your posts after every misspeak by Biden tells me different. Or, at the very least, if someone else had brought it up you’d have piled on. That isn’t speculation, there’s a clear pattern in your posting.
Any slight misstep from the people you like and it’s defend and deny. If it’s someone on the other side then it’s all out attack.

I’m not particularly defending Biden, he clearly was mentally unfit for office. But Trump is unfit for office too - in a different way - but because he is your guy the mental backflips you will do to find no fault in him and defend everything he says and does are ridiculous. It’s intellectually dishonest. You must at some level acknowledge that Trump is human and therefore fallible. And yet I don’t recall ever seeing you criticise or condemn anything he says or does. And it’s that which makes you appear like a cult member who is so far gone they can find no fault in their glorious leader. And that’s what makes any honest conversation with you impossible.

This is a terrible argument. You come to us with a constant stream of lies and partisan smears, and are wondering why I never agree with you. I never agree with you because all of your content comes from partisan journalists with a long history of smearing conservatives in the most dishonest ways possible. Your information comes from a single, mud throwing side. If you came up with your own unique arguments, or posted the conservatives criticisms, I would have much more respect for them.

I do have criticisms about Trump, but they are entirely unrelated to everything you post. You post the most low brow, alarmist content and think that it's good as any other.

Ultimately, this is a psychological problem. Your over-emotional liberal nature keeps you and your journalists from operating within reason. A great many liberals operate in an emotional, childish manner, like the man in the below video.

« Last Edit: Today at 04:40:25 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13209 on: Today at 07:05:54 PM »
I do have criticisms about Trump...
You do?  Would you care to share some of them?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13210 on: Today at 08:45:11 PM »
This is a terrible argument.
I'm not making an argument. I'm simply highlighting your clear pattern of behaviour. Your assessment of actions and words depends entirely on who did or said them rather than on their own merits. Which renders honest discussion impossible. I'm uncertain whether you are being dishonest with us (and therefore trolling) or with yourself (and simply deluded)

Quote
You come to us with a constant stream of lies
A claim which cannot be taken seriously given the above and your last accusation of me lying was a response to my quoting Trump verbatim.
Now, I don't think Trump really believes Putin fought in World War II - I thought his phrasing was odd, but I know what he was trying to say. But even what he was trying to say was pretty dumb - he was basically saying it's odd that Russia was our ally in WWII and now people don't like them. How could that be? How about because of the EIGHTY YEARS of geopolitics since then.

Quote
I do have criticisms about Trump
No, you don't. Because you're in his cult and you cannot bear to hear any criticism of him. The mental backflips you do to defend him and his cronies are ridiculous. But OK, prove me wrong - what are your criticism of him? Come on, this is a safe space, Trump won't read this.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #13211 on: Today at 10:07:40 PM »
Come on, this is a safe space, Trump won't read this.
Unless Tom is sending daily reports and we're all on the anti-trump revenge list.


Tho... Trump doesn't even read daily briefings so .... You're probably right.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.