[AATW]

I don't agree with the people giving even grudging credit to Trump over this. Trump clearly said that there was a ceasefire, and Israel and Iran clearly disregarded him and continued their war. The fact that at a later time Israel and Iran really did agree on a ceasefire doesn't somehow ripple back through time and imbue Trump's impotent declaration with retroactive relevance. No, Trump was bullshitting, because he's a thoroughly stupid man and a habitual liar, and he almost certainly played a very limited role (at best) in the actual ceasefire.

I dunno. While I certainly agree that orange man bad, it's not like he announced a ceasefire, then the war continued for another few weeks and then there was a ceasefire. After Trump announced the ceasefire there were some subsequent skirmishes, he yelled at them both and since then the ceasefire has held. Whether it will continue to hold remains to be seen of course. And of course like always he's massively exaggerating how effective everything he does is. But the timing is such that I don't think you can entirely detach the current ceasefire from his actions.
Don't get me wrong, this wasn't some brilliant strategic move from Trump. He operates entirely by gut feel. So if he did get this right it was more luck than judgement. But there are some tentative signs that he might have got it right.

[Action80]

If someone else was asking the question, I would reply, " Ask harder."

But, I don't think you want a war.

of course i dont. what normal human would actually want a war (aside from people who get paid to talk about how there should be a war). maybe i need to switch to journalism, id love to make 20% 70%+ or less than i do now to yell at people why war is coming. also, trump bad, two more weeks, etc...

There are a lot of regular posters here clamoring for war, demanding the US continue to support Ukraine and Israel in their wars.

I am glad you don't view them as normal.

[Lord Dave]

https://www.tpr.org/border-immigration/2025-06-25/ice-arrested-a-6-year-old-boy-with-leukemia-at-immigration-court-his-family-is-suing

Welp, explains the rush of ICE detainments...

The Trump administration has set a goal of 3,000 immigration arrests per day, or one million per year, claiming that it is targeting violent criminals. ICE data obtained by the Cato Institute show that over 93 percent of immigrants arrested this fiscal year were never convicted of any violent offenses.

Know how y'all hate ticket quotas?  Yeah, this is worse.  Its likely an unrealistic number so they take anyone and everyone they can.  Once again, Trump exaggerated the problem and now everyone has to scramble to find a solution.

Also, they hire assholes who love to be racist.

[Rushy]

3000 per day? Rookie numbers. We need to pump those numbers up.

[markjo]

Before too long, they might have to start letting the illegals in again so that they have someone to deport.

[Lord Dave]

Before too long, they might have to start letting the illegals in again so that they have someone to deport.

Nah.  That'll show up.  They'll kidnap Mexicans and make them cross the border, then arrest them.

[Lord Dave]

Oh hey, something we all missed.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-hits-iranian-government-targets-day-after-u-s-strikes-on-iranian-nuclear-sites

Apparently, Israel wanted to attack an already obliterated site.  Weird, right?  Almost like Trump is lying about how much damage was done.  Probably why he's blocking congress from seeing the reports.

[markjo]

Oh hey, something we all missed.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-hits-iranian-government-targets-day-after-u-s-strikes-on-iranian-nuclear-sites

Apparently, Israel wanted to attack an already obliterated site.  Weird, right?  Almost like Trump is lying about how much damage was done.  Probably why he's blocking congress from seeing the reports.

Or, maybe the US and other previous strikes didn’t take out every possible target. 

[Lord Dave]

Oh hey, something we all missed.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-hits-iranian-government-targets-day-after-u-s-strikes-on-iranian-nuclear-sites

Apparently, Israel wanted to attack an already obliterated site.  Weird, right?  Almost like Trump is lying about how much damage was done.  Probably why he's blocking congress from seeing the reports.

Or, maybe the US and other previous strikes didn’t take out every possible target.

But Trump said they did.  Hit that site and obliterated it.  Then Israel hits the same spot again.

[Tom Bishop]

From the above PBS article:

The Israeli military also confirmed it struck roads around Iran’s Fordo enrichment facility to obstruct access to the site.

They took out the roads to prevent emergency responders from trying to help people who may have been trapped or dying in the rubble. This is reprehensible, and likely a war crime. Attacking the survivors of a bombing is distinctly different than the bombing of the infrastructure itself.

[markjo]

But Trump said they did.  Hit that site and obliterated it. 

Trump also said that there was a cease fire.  Apparently neither side got the memo.

Then Israel hits the same spot again.

The article said that they hit the roads going to that spot, among other targets.

[Lord Dave]

From the above PBS article:

The Israeli military also confirmed it struck roads around Iran’s Fordo enrichment facility to obstruct access to the site.

They took out the roads to prevent emergency responders from trying to help people who may have been trapped or dying in the rubble. This is reprehensible, and likely a war crime. Attacking the survivors of a bombing is distinctly different than the bombing of the infrastructure itself.

But the site was obliterated, according to Trump.  Shouldn't have BEEN survivors.  And if Israel just wanted to kill anyone who tried to assess damage just because they can... yeah, that's a war crime.

[markjo]

From the above PBS article:

The Israeli military also confirmed it struck roads around Iran’s Fordo enrichment facility to obstruct access to the site.

They took out the roads to prevent emergency responders from trying to help people who may have been trapped or dying in the rubble. This is reprehensible, and likely a war crime. Attacking the survivors of a bombing is distinctly different than the bombing of the infrastructure itself.

But the site was obliterated, according to Trump.  Shouldn't have BEEN survivors.  And if Israel just wanted to kill anyone who tried to assess damage just because they can... yeah, that's a war crime.

Trump had been talking about the strike for days, so the site was most likely already evacuated, therefore it's doubtful that anybody was trapped or dying in the rubble.

[DuncanDoenitz]

If we accept that the Fordo site was a weapon production facility, which seems to be the position of both Israel and USA, then it is was a legitimate military target. 

"Obliterated" or not, unless the enriched uranium has been vapourised, it may still exist in some form.  Any attempt at rebuilding, recovery or salvaging of either the product, or its means of production, is also a legitimate military target. 

[markjo]

"Obliterated" or not, unless the enriched uranium has been vapourised, it may still exist in some form.

Again, with all of the advance warning, it's fairly likely that the stockpile of enriched uranium was moved as well.  The centrifuges might be a different story.

[Lord Dave]

Early reports, like the leaked, classified report, indicates that not only did the strike not obliterate the sites, but the uranium was moved to other locations.

The fight now is: What does obliterate really mean?