[totallackey]

I'm not sure I understand the question.  None of these are mutually exclusive.  Obama could have built wall AND not separated families.  The truth is, he DID separate families but as an exception, not the rule.

Obama would have also built 700+ miles of wall but republicans blocked it from even being voted on in the house.

As for the economy, I give a president two years though usually they do little to affect it.  Trump is different.  He makes stocks fall with a tweet.  No other president has done that because no other president attacks private companies or starts trade wars.

You are correct.

Not mutually exclusive and, in fact, deeply intertwined.

Continuity of long range planning and incrementalist boiling of the frog...

Not sure why all the outrage then...

Not sure they are deeply intertwined.
Also, what long range planning?

Outrage is mostly because of the justification, not the actual plan (in some cases)
Ex:
I've spoken to Border Agents and they feel that 300 miles of additional fencing plus upgrading and repairing of existing fences at these ares will aid them in their patrols and force border crossers to safer, official ports of entry.

Vs

We need a big, beautiful wall to keep out the rapists, drugs, and murderers comming across the southern border.  All of them are evil, horrible people who will destroy America!


One is political, the other is fear mongering.

So, there are no citizens of the US who are being raped, no drug smugglers, or no US citizens being murdered by people illegally crossing the US Southern Border?

And murderers, rapists, and drug smugglers, are not evil and horrible people?

[Lord Dave]

I'm not sure I understand the question.  None of these are mutually exclusive.  Obama could have built wall AND not separated families.  The truth is, he DID separate families but as an exception, not the rule.

Obama would have also built 700+ miles of wall but republicans blocked it from even being voted on in the house.

As for the economy, I give a president two years though usually they do little to affect it.  Trump is different.  He makes stocks fall with a tweet.  No other president has done that because no other president attacks private companies or starts trade wars.

You are correct.

Not mutually exclusive and, in fact, deeply intertwined.

Continuity of long range planning and incrementalist boiling of the frog...

Not sure why all the outrage then...

Not sure they are deeply intertwined.
Also, what long range planning?

Outrage is mostly because of the justification, not the actual plan (in some cases)
Ex:
I've spoken to Border Agents and they feel that 300 miles of additional fencing plus upgrading and repairing of existing fences at these ares will aid them in their patrols and force border crossers to safer, official ports of entry.

Vs

We need a big, beautiful wall to keep out the rapists, drugs, and murderers comming across the southern border.  All of them are evil, horrible people who will destroy America!


One is political, the other is fear mongering.

So, there are no citizens of the US who are being raped, no drug smugglers, or no US citizens being murdered by people illegally crossing the US Southern Border?

And murderers, rapists, and drug smugglers, are not evil and horrible people?

Of course there are.  But thats not the point of what was said.  The amount is very small.  Especially considering the number of people raped and murdered by Americans.  However the wording makes you think that its a huge problem.  I mean, if you need a wall to keep em out, it must be alot of them.  Maybe even most of them, right?

Its all about wording.

[Roundy]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/corey-lewandowski-impeachment-hearing-lies-disaster.html

Ah, Corey. You regularly appear as a commentator on news programs, you plan to run for public office... and you stated, under oath no less, and in front of a national audience, that you feel no responsibility to be truthful to the public through the media.

Well good luck with your future endeavors. I expect your opponents for the Senate will play that clip to death. And the reporter is on the nose when he says any legitimate media outlet would be foolish to the extreme to ever hire you again.

But hey, there's always Fox News. Their commentators care more about protecting Trump than telling the truth too so you guys are kindred spirits.

I fear that both you and the author are being much too optimistic about Lewandowski's chances of political success in the future. A significant chunk of the voting population would disagree with this part of the article:

Let’s be clear: Lying to the press is the same as lying to the public. The press asks questions as proxy for the public. It’s not a defense to say you don’t like the press, or the segment of the population that consumes that press, because you are now not just a public official lying to the public, but a public official admitting to and condoning lying to the public.

To them, lying to the press is absolutely different to lying to the public. They see the media as snooty elitists who mislead the country and deserve to be lied to. It's only statements directly addressed to the public that need to be truthful.

Well that's an insulting and elitist opinion about the intelligence of the American people. Obviously the totallackeys of the country will look on Lewandowski as a hero but I still think most Americans understand that when a public official is being interviewed on a news program their audience is the audience, not the person interviewing them, and therefore when they lie they are lying to the audience. And furthermore, it should be easy for his opponents to hammer that point home.

But we'll find out eventually if you're right about how dumb Americans are.

[totallackey]

Of course there are.  But thats not the point of what was said.  The amount is very small.

Well now, we have a dilemma...

Actually, the amount of drug smuggling (which of course, leads to many overdose deaths of US citizens), the amount of rapes committed by illegal immigrants, and the amount of murders committed by illegal immigrants, vastly outnumbers those of even mass shooters.

If I was to reply to a post made by you concerning a mass shooting with the reply, "But the amount of mass shootings is small," I wonder what your thoughts would be?

Especially considering the number of people raped and murdered by Americans.  However the wording makes you think that its a huge problem.  I mean, if you need a wall to keep em out, it must be alot of them.  Maybe even most of them, right?

I don't desire to see anyone committing illegal acts.

Regardless of locale or ethnic status.

Crossing sovereign nation borders is an illegal act and indicative of a lawless person.

Its all about wording.

No, it's not.

[totallackey]

Well that's an insulting and elitist opinion about the intelligence of the American people. Obviously the totallackeys of the country will look on Lewandowski as a hero but I still think most Americans understand that when a public official is being interviewed on a news program their audience is the audience, not the person interviewing them, and therefore when they lie they are lying to the audience. And furthermore, it should be easy for his opponents to hammer that point home.

But we'll find out eventually if you're right about how dumb Americans are.

I do not look on Corey Lewandoski as any kind of hero...

He is just a part of the dog and pony show being carried on in front of the cameras.

Hammer what home?

The fact that people lie?

People need that hammered home why?

[AATW]

Crossing sovereign nation borders is an illegal act and indicative of a lawless person.

It can be indicative of a desperate person.


"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[Lord Dave]

Crossing sovereign nation borders is an illegal act and indicative of a lawless person.

It can be indicative of a desperate person.


"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

But world, that is how America was founded and expanded.  We crossed soverign nation borders, slaughtered the natives and took their land.  Its the American Way.

[AATW]

But world, that is how America was founded and expanded.  We crossed soverign nation borders, slaughtered the natives and took their land.  Its the American Way.

You stole the idea from us tbh.
#RuleBritannia

[Roundy]

Well that's an insulting and elitist opinion about the intelligence of the American people. Obviously the totallackeys of the country will look on Lewandowski as a hero but I still think most Americans understand that when a public official is being interviewed on a news program their audience is the audience, not the person interviewing them, and therefore when they lie they are lying to the audience. And furthermore, it should be easy for his opponents to hammer that point home.

But we'll find out eventually if you're right about how dumb Americans are.

I do not look on Corey Lewandoski as any kind of hero...

He is just a part of the dog and pony show being carried on in front of the cameras.

Hammer what home?

The fact that people lie?

People need that hammered home why?

The fact that when you lie to someone in the media you are simultaneously lying to the public.

[totallackey]

Well that's an insulting and elitist opinion about the intelligence of the American people. Obviously the totallackeys of the country will look on Lewandowski as a hero but I still think most Americans understand that when a public official is being interviewed on a news program their audience is the audience, not the person interviewing them, and therefore when they lie they are lying to the audience. And furthermore, it should be easy for his opponents to hammer that point home.

But we'll find out eventually if you're right about how dumb Americans are.

I do not look on Corey Lewandoski as any kind of hero...

He is just a part of the dog and pony show being carried on in front of the cameras.

Hammer what home?

The fact that people lie?

People need that hammered home why?

The fact that when you lie to someone in the media you are simultaneously lying to the public.

Meh...

The media lies to the world on a daily basis.

The ENTIRE WORLD knows this.

[Lord Dave]

Well that's an insulting and elitist opinion about the intelligence of the American people. Obviously the totallackeys of the country will look on Lewandowski as a hero but I still think most Americans understand that when a public official is being interviewed on a news program their audience is the audience, not the person interviewing them, and therefore when they lie they are lying to the audience. And furthermore, it should be easy for his opponents to hammer that point home.

But we'll find out eventually if you're right about how dumb Americans are.

I do not look on Corey Lewandoski as any kind of hero...

He is just a part of the dog and pony show being carried on in front of the cameras.

Hammer what home?

The fact that people lie?

People need that hammered home why?

The fact that when you lie to someone in the media you are simultaneously lying to the public.

Meh...

The media lies to the world on a daily basis.

The ENTIRE WORLD knows this.

That includes Fox news and anyone on twitter and facebook.

[honk]

Well that's an insulting and elitist opinion about the intelligence of the American people. Obviously the totallackeys of the country will look on Lewandowski as a hero but I still think most Americans understand that when a public official is being interviewed on a news program their audience is the audience, not the person interviewing them, and therefore when they lie they are lying to the audience. And furthermore, it should be easy for his opponents to hammer that point home.

But we'll find out eventually if you're right about how dumb Americans are.

Most Americans understand that, just like most Americans knew better than to vote for Trump. It's the Trump base that Lewandowski is catering to, and he could easily win a seat in the Senate in certain states with only their support. In other news, here's the latest scandal, because Trump can't let a week pass without reminding the nation of how extraordinarily unfit for office he is:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/us/politics/trump-whistle-blower-ukraine.html

[Lord Dave]

Ohhh... Shocking...

Watch Biden won't be his opponent and this scandle will be for nothing.

[totallackey]

Yeah, don't let the fact Biden is on videotape admitting he would withhold one billion USD if Ukraine didn't fire the prosecutor investigating the oil company employing Hunter Biden get in the way of reality...and forget it was the NYT who reported the story in May of this year...

[Rama Set]

Yeah, don't let the fact Biden is on videotape admitting he would withhold one billion USD if Ukraine didn't fire the prosecutor investigating the oil company employing Hunter Biden get in the way of reality...and forget it was the NYT who reported the story in May of this year...

The entire US administration and the EU wanted that guy gone... as the NYT reported in May as well.

[honk]

As usual with any scandal he's faced, Trump has now changed his story from "I didn't do it," to essentially "It's okay that I did it." This tactic has the side effect of leaving his allies, the people furiously protesting his innocence, looking a little silly when the story they've been sticking to is so unceremoniously discarded, but Trump has never cared about the dignity or credibility of other people, even those trying to help him.

[totallackey]

Yeah, don't let the fact Biden is on videotape admitting he would withhold one billion USD if Ukraine didn't fire the prosecutor investigating the oil company employing Hunter Biden get in the way of reality...and forget it was the NYT who reported the story in May of this year...

The entire US administration and the EU wanted that guy gone... as the NYT reported in May as well.

As usual with any scandal he's faced, Trump has now changed his story from "I didn't do it," to essentially "It's okay that I did it." This tactic has the side effect of leaving his allies, the people furiously protesting his innocence, looking a little silly when the story they've been sticking to is so unceremoniously discarded, but Trump has never cared about the dignity or credibility of other people, even those trying to help him.

The entire US administration wanted him gone for ...?

Because Biden was representing the US Administration and they knew it was a conflict of interest.

And, yeah, Trump did bring it up because so did Biden.

Let's see...

Obama administration says don't investigate or you get no money...

Trump administration says investigate and you get money...

I gotta side with Trump on this one...

[Rama Set]

It wasn’t just the US government that wanted that prosecutor gone, it was the EU, the IMF, the UN. Was there a conflict of interest? Yes. Was there enough pretext to ask the Ukrainian government to fire him? Yes. So it shouldn’t have been Biden making the demand, but that is not a sure sign of bribery either.

Interestingly, Trump threatened to withhold military support if they didn’t do what he asked. So, he employed to same tactics as the Obama administration did but has been evasive about it and is doing it for political gain. Nice ethics Trump, hope it gets you impeached.

[totallackey]

It wasn’t just the US government that wanted that prosecutor gone, it was the EU, the IMF, the UN. Was there a conflict of interest? Yes. Was there enough pretext to ask the Ukrainian government to fire him? Yes. So it shouldn’t have been Biden making the demand, but that is not a sure sign of bribery either.

Interestingly, Trump threatened to withhold military support if they didn’t do what he asked. So, he employed to same tactics as the Obama administration did but has been evasive about it and is doing it for political gain. Nice ethics Trump, hope it gets you impeached.

Whether Trump actually said anything to the Ukrainian govt about any "quid pro quo," is still not clear.

The full transcript of the phone conversation is to be released today.

This is gonna blow up right in front of Nancy's face...

[Rama Set]

He probably didn’t. He probably instructed someone to do it. He certainly tried fucked with a private citizen for personal political gain.