Offline Mock

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Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« on: June 19, 2016, 06:06:32 PM »
So you claim the sun and the moon are two (compared to the earth) rather small orbs circling above us. On some wiki page (not sure, but probably the FAQ), I also read that you explain gravity with the Earth being accelerated upwards by dark energy or aetheric winds or something like that. It doesn't even matter, as long as when I drop objects, they "fall down" and land on the ground - which they obviously do.
Now I was wondering: How can sun and moon levitate in the air above us without falling down, the same way a stone I drop will fall down? If we apply gravity to a flat Earth like you say it is, sun and moon will be accelerated downward and crash into the Earth. If we use your concept of the earth being carried by some sort of aetheric wind or whatever, the Earth will be accelerated upwards and crash into the sun and moon, which gives us the exact same results.

What am I missing? It seems like such a stupid question that I'm sure there must be a mistake, but I can't find any ???
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 06:22:16 PM by Mock »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 11:47:01 PM »
Unknown.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 02:46:08 AM »
Unknown.
Well if UA affects the earth, but not the objects on it (us, aircraft, balloons etc), somehow also affects the sun, moon and stars!
What decides if something oi accelerated with UA and what is not? Altitude, composition aetheric winds?

Should we be careful sending rockets up that they don't get "sucked up" to the stars?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2016, 10:24:15 AM »
Unknown.
Ok then, is there an explanation to apsis of the Sun and Moon?
Like how there is a super Moon and mini Moon, and the Sun being larger in January than in July?
The size of the Solar system if the Moon were only 1 pixel:
http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 12:34:18 PM »
Unknown.
Well if UA affects the earth, but not the objects on it (us, aircraft, balloons etc), somehow also affects the sun, moon and stars!
What decides if something oi accelerated with UA and what is not? Altitude, composition aetheric winds?

I really thought that was pretty straight forward.
How does your UA know to accelerate the earth, the sun and moon and stars but NOT the objects ON the earth?

And as an extension, do objects gradually get affected by UA as they get further above the surface?

How else can I ask it?

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2016, 12:51:41 PM »
Unknown.
Well if UA affects the earth, but not the objects on it (us, aircraft, balloons etc), somehow also affects the sun, moon and stars!
What decides if something oi accelerated with UA and what is not? Altitude, composition aetheric winds?

I really thought that was pretty straight forward.
How does your UA know to accelerate the earth, the sun and moon and stars but NOT the objects ON the earth?

And as an extension, do objects gradually get affected by UA as they get further above the surface?

How else can I ask it?
I've tried to ask this before Rab:
What I think is an amazing coincidence is that somehow the moon and sun don't collide with the flat earth, yet a ball I throw into the air comes back down again.
Is there some magic distance required to negate the UA?
No response!

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2016, 02:30:57 PM »
As I said, the matter is unknown.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline Mock

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2016, 06:15:41 PM »
But that might disprove your strange gravity-replacement theory about something accelerating Earth upwards from below, like aetheric wind or something (don't know what UA means, but my guess would be "unknown acceleration"? Please correct me if I'm wrong) - either that, or there must be some other force keeping Sun and Moon away from Earth. Then again, if that is the case, I'm surprised that a) we never knew about this unknown force and b) it doesn't seem to influence us, just the celestial bodies, which sounds strange.

Wow, didn't think that was such an important question :o

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2016, 10:24:19 PM »
(don't know what UA means, but my guess would be "unknown acceleration"? Please correct me if I'm wrong)

The "U" is for "Universal", which in practice means "Universal (except for everything that isn't an earth, moon, sun, or celestial object)"  No explanation has been given for why "universal" acceleration does not accelerate loose objects.  If it were "universal" it should accelerate everything.
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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2016, 11:38:44 PM »
As I said, the matter is unknown.

Strange that you can hypothesise so many explanations for things needed to prop up the Flat Earth with no basis at all.
The one and only reason gravitation is denied in the flat earth hypothesis[1] is that it conflicts with the idea of a finite disk earth[2].

At least with gravitation in the Globe model, while there may questions as to the cause of gravitation, it has been verified experimentally many times;
see What did Henry Cavendish Measure? « on: March 14, 2016, 04:53:13 PM », which everyone conveniently ignores.

Actually, while magnetic and electrostatic forces seem more tangible, can you explain at a fundamental level just why these can attract or repel? Gravitation seems so elusive simply because it is really such a minute force[3] - but is exactly right to explain gravity, orbital motion etc.


[1] Yes I know you claim a "celestial gravitation" that somehow doesn't cause gravity on earth - are celestial objects composed of a different type of matter?

[2] BTW "TheFlatEarthSociety - the other one" seems to be scrapping the whole idea of UA in favour of an infinite plane earth, which leads to a uniform vertical "gravity"! Ask John Davis.

[3] In particular, while you can "feel" magnetic and electrostatic forces between everyday objects, gravitation is far too weak to sense in this way.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2016, 11:47:56 PM »
Again, the matter is unknown.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline CableDawg

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2016, 04:29:57 AM »
Unknown.

Come on Tom!  You can do better than this.  You are one of the most vocal proponents of FE theory making valid predictions.

Seems to me that one of the most important tenets of FE theory would be able to make predictions on how everything, other than the FE, is affected by the force which keeps everything in place on the FE.

Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2016, 05:08:11 AM »
No one can explain why the earth hasn't careened into the sun either. Why the moon hasn't fell to earth. They'll tell you a hundred different implausible reasons why after a big bang things began to just spin and rotate around each other, and the only way it makes sense is suspension of disbelief.

Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2016, 05:16:01 AM »
The matter is not unknown.

I have explained clearly the nature of planetary/stellar gravity in my messages here.

The UAFE cannot use the ether/aether in any way, shape or form, that is why it becomes very difficult to provide answers to the ring laser gyroscope, beam neutrinos, gravitational anomalies threads...

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2016, 05:20:03 AM »
Unknown.

Come on Tom!  You can do better than this.  You are one of the most vocal proponents of FE theory making valid predictions.

Seems to me that one of the most important tenets of FE theory would be able to make predictions on how everything, other than the FE, is affected by the force which keeps everything in place on the FE.

We work from experiment to experience here. We have standards. Whatever keeps the sun up is not testable or observed, and making a prediction of something so beyond the range of human experience is antithetical to the empirical tenets of Zeteticism, and is more in line with Round Earth ramblings about gravitons and black matter.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2016, 05:57:50 AM »
Unknown.

Come on Tom!  You can do better than this.  You are one of the most vocal proponents of FE theory making valid predictions.

Seems to me that one of the most important tenets of FE theory would be able to make predictions on how everything, other than the FE, is affected by the force which keeps everything in place on the FE.

We work from experiment to experience here. We have standards. Whatever keeps the sun up is not testable or observed, and making a prediction of something so beyond the range of human experience is antithetical to the empirical tenets of Zeteticism, and is more in line with Round Earth ramblings about gravitons and black matter.
But it is observed, the sun does not fall back to Earth, ergo something holds it up.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2016, 06:25:44 AM »
The sun is observed to be in the sky. However, the answer for the mechanism which keeps the sun in the sky will be along the same lines with how Rowbotham answers why the sun travels North-South through the year:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za25.htm

Quote
That such is the sun's annual course is demonstrable by actual observation; but if it is asked why it traverses such a peculiarly concentric path, no practical answer can be given, and no theory or speculation can be tolerated. At no distant period perhaps, we may have collected sufficient matter-of-fact evidence to enable us to understand it; but until that occurs, the Zetetic process only permits us to say:--"The peculiar motion is visible to us, but, of the cause, at present we are ignorant."

We would never hear anything like this from a Round Earth scientist or scientific journal.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Offline Unsure101

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2016, 07:23:10 AM »
The sun is observed to be in the sky. However, the answer for the mechanism which keeps the sun in the sky will be along the same lines with how Rowbotham answers why the sun travels North-South through the year:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za25.htm

Quote
That such is the sun's annual course is demonstrable by actual observation; but if it is asked why it traverses such a peculiarly concentric path, no practical answer can be given, and no theory or speculation can be tolerated. At no distant period perhaps, we may have collected sufficient matter-of-fact evidence to enable us to understand it; but until that occurs, the Zetetic process only permits us to say:--"The peculiar motion is visible to us, but, of the cause, at present we are ignorant."

We would never hear anything like this from a Round Earth scientist or scientific journal.
I can provide you with a pretty conclusive justification that explains the paths of the sun and moon...
I doubt you'd listen though.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2016, 07:36:10 AM »
I can provide you with a pretty conclusive justification that explains the paths of the sun and moon...
I doubt you'd listen though.

Don't bother. We likely know much, much more about Round Earth Theory and the history of astronomy than you do.
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy