# The Flat Earth Society

## Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Mock on June 19, 2016, 06:06:32 PM

Title: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Mock on June 19, 2016, 06:06:32 PM
So you claim the sun and the moon are two (compared to the earth) rather small orbs circling above us. On some wiki page (not sure, but probably the FAQ), I also read that you explain gravity with the Earth being accelerated upwards by dark energy or aetheric winds or something like that. It doesn't even matter, as long as when I drop objects, they "fall down" and land on the ground - which they obviously do.
Now I was wondering: How can sun and moon levitate in the air above us without falling down, the same way a stone I drop will fall down? If we apply gravity to a flat Earth like you say it is, sun and moon will be accelerated downward and crash into the Earth. If we use your concept of the earth being carried by some sort of aetheric wind or whatever, the Earth will be accelerated upwards and crash into the sun and moon, which gives us the exact same results.

What am I missing? It seems like such a stupid question that I'm sure there must be a mistake, but I can't find any ???
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 19, 2016, 11:47:01 PM
Unknown.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: rabinoz on June 20, 2016, 02:46:08 AM
Unknown.
Well if UA affects the earth, but not the objects on it (us, aircraft, balloons etc), somehow also affects the sun, moon and stars!
What decides if something oi accelerated with UA and what is not? Altitude, composition aetheric winds?

Should we be careful sending rockets up that they don't get "sucked up" to the stars?
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 20, 2016, 02:48:34 AM
Unknown.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet on June 20, 2016, 10:24:15 AM
Unknown.
Ok then, is there an explanation to apsis of the Sun and Moon?
Like how there is a super Moon and mini Moon, and the Sun being larger in January than in July?
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: rabinoz on June 20, 2016, 12:34:18 PM
Unknown.
Well if UA affects the earth, but not the objects on it (us, aircraft, balloons etc), somehow also affects the sun, moon and stars!
What decides if something oi accelerated with UA and what is not? Altitude, composition aetheric winds?

I really thought that was pretty straight forward.
How does your UA know to accelerate the earth, the sun and moon and stars but NOT the objects ON the earth?

And as an extension, do objects gradually get affected by UA as they get further above the surface?

How else can I ask it?
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Unsure101 on June 20, 2016, 12:51:41 PM
Unknown.
Well if UA affects the earth, but not the objects on it (us, aircraft, balloons etc), somehow also affects the sun, moon and stars!
What decides if something oi accelerated with UA and what is not? Altitude, composition aetheric winds?

I really thought that was pretty straight forward.
How does your UA know to accelerate the earth, the sun and moon and stars but NOT the objects ON the earth?

And as an extension, do objects gradually get affected by UA as they get further above the surface?

How else can I ask it?
I've tried to ask this before Rab:
What I think is an amazing coincidence is that somehow the moon and sun don't collide with the flat earth, yet a ball I throw into the air comes back down again.
Is there some magic distance required to negate the UA?
No response!
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 20, 2016, 02:30:57 PM
As I said, the matter is unknown.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Mock on June 20, 2016, 06:15:41 PM
But that might disprove your strange gravity-replacement theory about something accelerating Earth upwards from below, like aetheric wind or something (don't know what UA means, but my guess would be "unknown acceleration"? Please correct me if I'm wrong) - either that, or there must be some other force keeping Sun and Moon away from Earth. Then again, if that is the case, I'm surprised that a) we never knew about this unknown force and b) it doesn't seem to influence us, just the celestial bodies, which sounds strange.

Wow, didn't think that was such an important question :o
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Rounder on June 20, 2016, 10:24:19 PM
(don't know what UA means, but my guess would be "unknown acceleration"? Please correct me if I'm wrong)

The "U" is for "Universal", which in practice means "Universal (except for everything that isn't an earth, moon, sun, or celestial object)"  No explanation has been given for why "universal" acceleration does not accelerate loose objects.  If it were "universal" it should accelerate everything.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: rabinoz on June 20, 2016, 11:38:44 PM
As I said, the matter is unknown.

Strange that you can hypothesise so many explanations for things needed to prop up the Flat Earth with no basis at all.
The one and only reason gravitation is denied in the flat earth hypothesis[1] is that it conflicts with the idea of a finite disk earth[2].

At least with gravitation in the Globe model, while there may questions as to the cause of gravitation, it has been verified experimentally many times;
see What did Henry Cavendish Measure? « on: March 14, 2016, 04:53:13 PM » (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=66170.msg1766858#msg1766858), which everyone conveniently ignores.

Actually, while magnetic and electrostatic forces seem more tangible, can you explain at a fundamental level just why these can attract or repel? Gravitation seems so elusive simply because it is really such a minute force[3] - but is exactly right to explain gravity, orbital motion etc.

[1] Yes I know you claim a "celestial gravitation" that somehow doesn't cause gravity on earth - are celestial objects composed of a different type of matter?

[2] BTW "TheFlatEarthSociety - the other one" seems to be scrapping the whole idea of UA in favour of an infinite plane earth, which leads to a uniform vertical "gravity"! Ask John Davis.

[3] In particular, while you can "feel" magnetic and electrostatic forces between everyday objects, gravitation is far too weak to sense in this way.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 20, 2016, 11:47:56 PM
Again, the matter is unknown.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: CableDawg on June 21, 2016, 04:29:57 AM
Unknown.

Come on Tom!  You can do better than this.  You are one of the most vocal proponents of FE theory making valid predictions.

Seems to me that one of the most important tenets of FE theory would be able to make predictions on how everything, other than the FE, is affected by the force which keeps everything in place on the FE.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on June 21, 2016, 05:08:11 AM
No one can explain why the earth hasn't careened into the sun either. Why the moon hasn't fell to earth. They'll tell you a hundred different implausible reasons why after a big bang things began to just spin and rotate around each other, and the only way it makes sense is suspension of disbelief.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: sandokhan on June 21, 2016, 05:16:01 AM
The matter is not unknown.

I have explained clearly the nature of planetary/stellar gravity in my messages here.

The UAFE cannot use the ether/aether in any way, shape or form, that is why it becomes very difficult to provide answers to the ring laser gyroscope, beam neutrinos, gravitational anomalies threads...
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 21, 2016, 05:20:03 AM
Unknown.

Come on Tom!  You can do better than this.  You are one of the most vocal proponents of FE theory making valid predictions.

Seems to me that one of the most important tenets of FE theory would be able to make predictions on how everything, other than the FE, is affected by the force which keeps everything in place on the FE.

We work from experiment to experience here. We have standards. Whatever keeps the sun up is not testable or observed, and making a prediction of something so beyond the range of human experience is antithetical to the empirical tenets of Zeteticism, and is more in line with Round Earth ramblings about gravitons and black matter.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Unsure101 on June 21, 2016, 05:57:50 AM
Unknown.

Come on Tom!  You can do better than this.  You are one of the most vocal proponents of FE theory making valid predictions.

Seems to me that one of the most important tenets of FE theory would be able to make predictions on how everything, other than the FE, is affected by the force which keeps everything in place on the FE.

We work from experiment to experience here. We have standards. Whatever keeps the sun up is not testable or observed, and making a prediction of something so beyond the range of human experience is antithetical to the empirical tenets of Zeteticism, and is more in line with Round Earth ramblings about gravitons and black matter.
But it is observed, the sun does not fall back to Earth, ergo something holds it up.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 21, 2016, 06:25:44 AM
The sun is observed to be in the sky. However, the answer for the mechanism which keeps the sun in the sky will be along the same lines with how Rowbotham answers why the sun travels North-South through the year:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za25.htm

Quote
That such is the sun's annual course is demonstrable by actual observation; but if it is asked why it traverses such a peculiarly concentric path, no practical answer can be given, and no theory or speculation can be tolerated. At no distant period perhaps, we may have collected sufficient matter-of-fact evidence to enable us to understand it; but until that occurs, the Zetetic process only permits us to say:--"The peculiar motion is visible to us, but, of the cause, at present we are ignorant."

We would never hear anything like this from a Round Earth scientist or scientific journal.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Unsure101 on June 21, 2016, 07:23:10 AM
The sun is observed to be in the sky. However, the answer for the mechanism which keeps the sun in the sky will be along the same lines with how Rowbotham answers why the sun travels North-South through the year:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za25.htm

Quote
That such is the sun's annual course is demonstrable by actual observation; but if it is asked why it traverses such a peculiarly concentric path, no practical answer can be given, and no theory or speculation can be tolerated. At no distant period perhaps, we may have collected sufficient matter-of-fact evidence to enable us to understand it; but until that occurs, the Zetetic process only permits us to say:--"The peculiar motion is visible to us, but, of the cause, at present we are ignorant."

We would never hear anything like this from a Round Earth scientist or scientific journal.
I can provide you with a pretty conclusive justification that explains the paths of the sun and moon...
I doubt you'd listen though.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 21, 2016, 07:36:10 AM
I can provide you with a pretty conclusive justification that explains the paths of the sun and moon...
I doubt you'd listen though.

Don't bother. We likely know much, much more about Round Earth Theory and the history of astronomy than you do.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 21, 2016, 10:28:29 AM
We work from experiment to experience here. We have standards.

We likely know much, much more about Round Earth Theory and the history of astronomy than you do.

The moon actually does turn a little. In fact, it turns so much that the far side of the moon was mapped by astronomers long before NASA claimed to have gone there.

A moment of silence please, so that we can all appreciate the full irony of these statements.
.
.
.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: rabinoz on June 21, 2016, 12:41:06 PM
Unknown.

Come on Tom!  You can do better than this.  You are one of the most vocal proponents of FE theory making valid predictions.

Seems to me that one of the most important tenets of FE theory would be able to make predictions on how everything, other than the FE, is affected by the force which keeps everything in place on the FE.

We work from experiment to experience here. We have standards. Whatever keeps the sun up is not testable or observed, and making a prediction of something so beyond the range of human experience is antithetical to the empirical tenets of Zeteticism, and is more in line with Round Earth ramblings about gravitons and black matter.
Please carefully explain to me what "gravitons and black matter" might have to do with the shape of the earth! If you want to know the shape of something - measure it!
The shapes of the countries on earth have been measured with nice solid old fashioned things like surveyor's chains and theodolites (no GPS or electronics) and the real shapes of countries is vastly different from those on any map you have proposed.

Please list the "experiment to experience" that provides any evidence that Newtonian Gravitation is false and that what we call gravity is actually caused by Universal Acceleration.

With so many things The Flat Earth Society seem to simply hypothesise something, the bend (sometimes literally) everything else to fit. No-one has yet provided any evidence of how moon phases or eclipses can actually work with your model. All you say is that the behaviour of light (or perspective) over long distances is unknown, yet never give evidence. In particular the "small (5 to 10 miles, I believe) shadow object" explanation of the lunar eclipse is completely impossible.

I have provided reference numerous times that Newtonian Gravitation has been verified and measured, but that has been completely ignored!
Not only that, but the Newtonian Laws of Motion and Gravitation provided a very good explanation of the orbital periods of our moon and the planets.
While the simple orbital calculation are based on simple two-bodied systems, the results are still quite close to the observed values.
The distance computed from these laws agrees for at least our moon and Venus compares well with that measured directly by radar and more recently for the moon by laser methods.

Still, I guess you must follow the infallible word of Rowbotham!
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: andruszkow on June 21, 2016, 01:47:32 PM
We work from experiment to experience here. We have standards.

We likely know much, much more about Round Earth Theory and the history of astronomy than you do.

The moon actually does turn a little. In fact, it turns so much that the far side of the moon was mapped by astronomers long before NASA claimed to have gone there.

A moment of silence please, so that we can all appreciate the full irony of these statements.
.
.
.
Wow.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: CableDawg on June 22, 2016, 05:31:36 AM
Unknown.

Come on Tom!  You can do better than this.  You are one of the most vocal proponents of FE theory making valid predictions.

Seems to me that one of the most important tenets of FE theory would be able to make predictions on how everything, other than the FE, is affected by the force which keeps everything in place on the FE.

We work from experiment to experience here. We have standards. Whatever keeps the sun up is not testable or observed, and making a prediction of something so beyond the range of human experience is antithetical to the empirical tenets of Zeteticism, and is more in line with Round Earth ramblings about gravitons and black matter.

So FE "theory" actually doesn't make predictions then.

Good to see you finally admit it.

On a side note, how, exactly, does experiment to experience actually work?  How does one experiment on/with something without having had an experience (interaction) with it?
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 22, 2016, 03:20:56 PM
On a side note, how, exactly, does experiment to experience actually work?  How does one experiment on/with something without having had an experience (interaction) with it?

It's just an empty phrase that doesn't actually mean anything.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: Charming Anarchist on June 22, 2016, 06:01:06 PM
I am with Tom on this but I like making guesses.

How can sun and moon levitate in the air above us without falling down, the same way a stone I drop will fall down?
--- the same way a rainbow can levitate in the air above us without falling down.

What am I missing?
The sun and the moon are not physical objects.
The sun is a focal point of parabolic rays and the moon is a reflection upon the firmament.
Title: Re: Sun and Moon floating above us - I don't get it
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 22, 2016, 07:00:03 PM
The sun and the moon are not physical objects.
The sun is a focal point of parabolic rays and the moon is a reflection upon the firmament.

What is a "parabolic ray"? What is the source of these "parabolic rays"?
What is the moon a reflection of?