[Tom Bishop]

Here I will collect notes which I will later use for the Conspiracy chapter. Here is a post I made today:

Remember that space travel was birthed from the space race. America's main desire to get into earth orbit was so that they could send rockets up there and threaten the world into submission with ICBMs.

The US attempted and failed at building a rocket capable of getting into earth orbit for a long time. When Russia started claiming that they could send rockets into orbit, America's only choice was to claim that they could as well. After WWII America emerged as the world's biggest superpower. Do you really think 1950's America, a rich and paranoid government of the atomic era, would let an aggressor like Russia hold the hand of God over on them with ICBMs?

An entirely new, never before seen technology which does something physically impossible is something that all the  money and power in the world simply cannot buy. America already had rockets that could launch up into the air until they were out of sight, and come back down unseen and the government did not shy away from deception.

Consider the secret war of the Vietnam era in which the public and Congress were systematically lied to about the scale of the war and reckless disregard for civilian casualties for over 20 years between 1945 to 1967. The Secret War was administrated by the Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson administration, the same people who were in charge around the time when NASA started making all of its fantastic claims.

From the wiki link --

President Johnson had decided to expand the war while promising "we seek no wider war" during his 1964 presidential campaign,[8] including plans to bomb North Vietnam well before the 1964 Election. President Johnson had been outspoken against doing so during the election and claimed that his opponent Barry Goldwater was the one that wanted to bomb North Vietnam.

[Tom Bishop]

Some notes on how government contractors work from the org site:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=54230.80#.VWPEdM9VhBe

A real space agency wouldn't build a crudely thrown together space ship easily mistaken for the handiwork of a 13 year old child.

NASA didn't build the LEM.  Grumman did.

We've gone over this already.

Grumman contractors build and design things for the government under the auspices of government managers, and do so on government research bases. Grumman contractors are basically government employees. Contracting companies like Grumman and Lockheed are really just the government version of KForce or Volt staffing. It's a temp agency. They're headhunters which contract your services to the government. Most of the time the contracting company does not really know, nor have an interest in, what their contractors are doing for the client.

NASA designed the LEM, because Grumman temps are de-facto NASA employees.

It's like the DoD. Very few people at military research bases actually work for the government (only managers and security). The actual people designing and building the equipment on the government base are government contractors.

Look at the NAVY's new Rail Gun weapon for instance. Would you say that the NAVY designed their new Rain Gun, or would you say that so-and-so temp agency designed it? The answer is that the NAVY did, because the contractors are de-facto government employees receiving instructions from and working directly under government managers. They're the hired help.

IBM hires contractors to build their chips, Nestle hires contractors to process their candies, Gerber hires contractors to maintain their equipment, but it's still IBM, Nestle, and Gerber pulling the strings and who are responsible for the end result.

It's absurd that a zetetic would judge the space worthiness of the LEM from a photograph.

A photograph of a crudely built spacecraft is photographic evidence that it is crudely built. I don't know what your problem is.

You need to stop denying and face the facts.

[Tom Bishop]

Some hoaxing during the cold war:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59690.msg1532608#msg1532608

I believe that the "Cold War" existed, but that it was really a war of hoaxes. It should be noted that during the Cold War, Russia went around parading fake ICBMs for decades:

Moscow paraded dummy missiles

MANY OF the huge strategic missiles displayed in Red Square parades during the Soviet era were only dummies, but they scared the West into an expensive response, a Russian magazine reported yesterday.

One such fake, GR-1, an acronym for Global Missile, showed during a parade in 1965, prompted the United States to build an anti- missile defence system worth billions of dollars, said the weekly Vlast (Power). In fact, the Soviets had abandoned the GR-1 project long before the parade.

Another two mobile ballistic missiles shown in the same parade were also fakes, their test launches having been a failure, the magazine said. "Foreign military attaches were scared to death, triggering panic in Nato headquarters," it said. "A huge international uproar followed, and only those who prepared this demonstration knew they were dummies." One of the authors of the Vlast report worked as a missile engineer and said he had worked on a support system for one of the fake missiles to prevent it from bouncing on the stone-paved Red Square in Moscow. The magazine said the Soviet leader Nikita Krushchev first bluffed the West with the legend of powerful Russian missiles, saying the Soviet Union was making them "like sausage". "Such comparison sounded ambiguous for the Soviet people, because the sausage was in deficit, but it duly impressed foreigners," it said. At the time of Krushchev's comment, the Soviets had only four intercontinental ballistic missiles on duty, while the United States had 60. "The myth about the Soviet missile superiority was convenient for both the Soviet leadership and the American military industrial complex, which was getting huge contracts," the magazine said.

Another article on the subject:

http://www.cdi.org/russia/may1499.html#6

There's also a book about their fake ICBM programs:

[Tom Bishop]

NASA uses Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret classifications, indicating that they are not truly a civilian organization.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59487.msg1524485#msg1524485

NASA is not civilian. The concept of a "civilian" space agency is just lip service to hide the fact that NASA's true agenda from the very start was to perform rocket research for ICBM's. Those "civilians" at NASA are military defense contractors - Northrop Grumman, Boeing, Raytrheon, DynCorp, etc.

Again, as NASA stands, it is civilian.  It's great that people suspected from the very beginning that it's intent was to research ICBMs, even though that was pretty much ARPA's entire purpose and reason of formation.  That may even be true, I can't say it's not granted the state of the world at the time.  We only have speculation to support that claim, however likely or unlikely it may seem, though.

If NASA is civilian then why do they use Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret classifications?

[Tom Bishop]

Some notes for what may happen after a rocket prop malfunctions which was supposedly full of astronauts:

Evelyn Husband still has her real name and is not in any kind of "relocation program."  She has done interviews and even wrote a book about her late husband.
http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/evelyn_husband_012804.aspx

Or maybe that's just what they want you to think.

Then my former youth group leader is part of "they."  Sorry, but that's an awfully silly notion and it's downright insulting to the families of the dead astronauts.  By the way, she married Bill Thompson this year and was a keynote speaker at this year's memorial ceremony at the space mirror at the Kennedy Visitor Center.  Sorry Tom, she's still in the public eye, your theory doesn't work.

When she's not weeping at memorial ceremonies and speaking to the media she probably flies down to Arizona to visit her husband for a couple months. I don't care about the particulars. Of course the family would make an appearance at the memorial ceremony. Her tears are forced and her interviews are false. The woman should be ashamed for conspiring with the military to fake her husband's death.

She should be even more pissed at herself for being able to cry on cue and act perfectly but not getting paid the millions of dollars she could have with a lucrative acting career.

The woman was likely coached by federal agents on how to act, what to say, and how to force herself into a crying wreck by thinking of her dead childhood dog. It doesn't matter how or why, all that matters is that she's in on it.

Wow Tom, wow. Good luck winning that whole acting argument. That is honestly one of the most stupid theories I have ever heard. What about the fact that her husband has dissapeared from the face of the Earth? Oh ya it's because he's dead.

He's not dead. NASA just relocated him away from the public eye. I'm sure once the media hype dies down his family will be reunited with him if they haven't already.

Now, I suppose it's possible that his family doesn't even know that he's still alive, but I doubt that NASA is that cruel.

Ski postulates that the astronauts may have actually died in the prop:

It's more likely that several astronaut fatalities have been due to actual failures of the flights or launches.

[Tom Bishop]

On NASA manipulation of Lunar Laser Ranging experiments:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52207.msg1280771#msg1280771

The lunar ranging equipment at the Apache Point Observatory seen in the show is supported and funded by NASA --

http://physics.ucsd.edu/~tmurphy/apollo/

"Finally, we thank NASA for supporting APOLLO and enabling it to get "off the ground", and more recently, a joint effort by NASA and the National Science Foundation to fund APOLLO at a level that will allow project completion and production of the first science results."

NASA could have easily built or modified the equipment or software to show the results they wanted, which is what a fake space agency would do to "prove" themselves. You're asking us to trust NASA that NASA is honest.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=53387.msg1308582#msg1308582

The two Lunar Ranging observatories NASA often cites are the APOLLO (the Apache Point Observatory Lunar Laser-ranging Operation), as discussed in my first link, and the McDonald Observatory lunar ranging experiments.

The McDonald Observatory lunar ranging experiments are also funded by NASA. See: http://www.archive.org/stream/nasa_techdoc_19750066483/19750066483#page/n0/mode/2up

Flip to the second page and you will find "This work is supported by NASA Grant NGR-44-012-165"

So you have innuendo about two observatories. Now try again with proof for all experiments using the all of the lunar retroreflectors (from Apollo 11, 14 or 15, and Lunokhod 1 and 2.)

Which other lunar ranging observatories are you referencing? Those are the main two that NASA cites when confronted with accusations of scam. The other one they cite is the Goddard Laser Ranging Facility, which is owned and operated by NASA themselves.

How very convenient of NASA, when defending its scam with Lunar Ranging claims, to neglect to disclose they they themselves fund those experiments.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=1380244;topic=55364.20;last_msg=1519545

Actually the soviets used the ruby laser. The laser used in america was not a ruby laser. I simply just googled the subject and found the information so it is not hard to do.

Your Googling skills are in need of better refinement.

http://spie.org/x38304.xml

"McDonald Observatory was the premier LLR station during the 1970s and early 1980s. The 2.7-m system, using a Korad ruby laser, routinely produced normal point data with an accuracy of 10-15 cm. After 15 years of operation the 2.7-m system was replaced by a dedicated 0.76-m system, built around a frequency-doubled Nd:YAG laser that produces LLR data approaching 1 cm normal point accuracy."

The McDonald Observatory lunar ranging experiments were the star attraction through the 70's and 80's, often championed as proof that NASA went to the moon. However, what the news articles don't tell you is that the experiments were funded by NASA.

Flip to the second page of that link and you will find "This work is supported by NASA Grant NGR-44-012-165"

I also came across this bad boy right here. seems legit, but I am no expert.
http://www.w7ftt.net/laser1.html

At the bottom of that article:

"Table Mountain Observatory, operated by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), is located just west of the
town of Wrightwood, California at an elevation of 7500 feet."

The Jet Propulsion Laboratory happens to be a NASA facility.

[Tom Bishop]

Many countries claim to be "space powers", but many just pay NASA  a lot of money to put astronauts on the ISS or do things for them in space. Also, some countries run a space hoax of lesser quality than NASA's.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=59139.msg1514660#msg1514660

Every space-capable nation consistently lies about space explorations

There are really only a few nations which claim launch capability. The majority of the "space nations" contract out either NASA/ESA/RSA to build run their spacecraft. Countries like Denmark may claim to be a "space power," but they have no rockets, no satellites, and only make that claim because they once paid NASA a lot of money to put a Danish national on the ISS. Hardly a space power.

These space programs are usually blatantly phony. See these videos on China's space program for example:

China's Space Walk Was FAKE (part 1)
Proof China Faked Their Spacewalk (Part 2)

[Tom Bishop]

Skepticism is a more rational approach to the topic of the conspiracy:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=1301151;topic=53073.0;last_msg=1314924

In The Mist by Stephen King, the name Flat Earth Society is used as a derogatory term to describe a group that refuses to accept the presence of monsters in the mist outside.

In both the book and movie of the same name the skeptics against the fantastic and paranormal are portrayed as outcasts and somehow less rational than others who are quick to jump on the supernatural bandwagon. As if "a tentacle monster beat him up and ate him in the back room when no one was looking" is the most rational explanation, and should be readily accepted as truth.

Flat Earthers are skeptics, and rightly so. NASA's claims of the fantastic and extraordinary need to be peer reviewed by an unconnected party, just as claims of a tentacle monster in the back room needs to be peer reviewed by an unconnected party. The evidence needs to be readily seen and cumulative.

We're not the ones supporting fantastic ideas like NASA can send men to the moon, robots to mars, and space ships to explore the solar system. You are. Those science fiction claims are extraordinary and absurd. You are blindly believing in things which cannot be confirmed by an unconnected third party. You are putting your faith in government, which on other subjects, you will do a 180^o turn and almost universally call them liars and corrupt.

Why does blind belief win out over skepticism?

[Tom Bishop]

A good question on the topic of peer review:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=24213.msg524560#msg524560

I can't remember who peer reviewed "Earth Not a Globe". Maybe Tom can tell us?

After Rowbotham published ENAG there was a monthly journal published called "Earth Not a Globe Review" which peer reviewed Rowbotham's claims.

What unconnected third-party peer reviewed NASA's claims?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=26775.msg614280#msg614280

If NASA were to allow skeptics to peer review their claims, research, and materials it would go a long way to giving them a modicum of credibility. Peer review is a fundamental tenant of modern science.

If NASA's work is not peer reviewed by an unconnected party it's not science. It's a story.

[Tom Bishop]

Some more on defense contractors, stratellite discussion, some things about NASA history.

I find this US-centric discussion rather amusing. All I hear is NASA, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, SpaceX. We get it; US defense companies are big baddies in cahoots with the US governemt. I also understand that NASA plays a big role in the Conspiracy; hell, the wiki page on the motive of the Conspiracy mentions no one but NASA.

That's because US defense companies are NASA. If NASA fired all of their contractors they would be firing something like 95% (actually probably more) of their workforce. When we reference NASA we are referencing those US defense companies.

This Conspiracy is a fantastic piece of international cooperation.

Most of those countries put up satellites through US defense contractors. NASA entities have putting up satellites for foreign countries from day one. In reality the "satellite" is probably a high altitude dirigible known as a Stratellite.

Boeing, for example, claims to have giant sea platforms from which it launches rockets conveniently out of sight of the world, taking orders from international clients to put up "Satellites".

P.S. What's also interesting is that the FES wiki page I linked above makes a big point of Lyndon Johnson's resolution to establish NASA in 1958, seemingly implying the Conspiracy began with NASA. However it was the Soviets that first claimed to put a satellite in space in 1957, when NASA didn't even exist yet.

Is it the Soviets that initiated the Conspiracy, then? Did the US merely go along with it?

They were likely separate conspiracies. The competition started in 1951 when the US NAVY unsuccessfully tried to reverse engineer one of Hitler's V2 rockets and send it into space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_in_spaceflight

As you can see the American rockets were mostly failures, while the Russian rockets were mostly successes. Over the span of 7 years of competition the Americans lagged behind in Russian claims. When Russia claimed to put up Sputnik into orbit late 1957, and thus able to reach America with its rockets, it was a breaking point where the US realized it needed to do something drastic, such as start a phony space program early the next year.

Don't you think it's convenient that the US launched a successful satellite in under 3 months after Russia's satellite, despite 6 years of failure?

[Tom Bishop]

Thank you for those resources, Dionysis.

Some notes on Wernher Von Braun:

I am leading a campaign to demand a public apology from NASA for harboring the Nazi War Criminal Werner Von Braun. During the war he was a colonel in the SS and directly oversaw the slave labor camps which built the V2 ballistic rockets. Von braun was also a personal acquaintance of Hitler.

After the war Von Braun was brought to the US he was made director of the Marshall Space Flight Center and served as the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle. His history was whitewashed and it is claimed he either that he knew nothing of the atrocities committed at Dora and Mittelwerk or that he was powerless to stop it. He is portrayed in his NASA biography as a jolly scientist who resented the Nazis, was apolitical, and was only pursuing his life-long interest in rocketry.

This is, in fact, false.

A survivor's account from Wernher von Braun, the SS, and Concentration Camp Labor: Questions of Moral, Political, and Criminal Responsibility:
 

Like the good Nazi he was, he immediately started shouting that it was
sabotage, when just at that point VON BRAUN arrived accompanied by
his usual group of people. Without even listening to my explanations, he
ordered the Meister to have me given 25 strokes in his presence by an SS
[man] who was there. Then judging the strokes weren't sufficiently hard,
he ordered that I be flogged more vigorously, and this order was then
diligently carried out, which caused much hilarity in the group, and
following this flogging, VON BRAUN made me translate that I deserved
much more, that in fact I deserved to be hanged, which certainly would be
the fate of the "Mensch" (good-for nothing) I was.

A quote from an article called  The Rocket Man’s Dark Side, published by TIME:

Indeed, some 20,000 died at Dora, from illness, beatings, hangings and intolerable working conditions. Workers, scantily clad, were forced to stand at attention in the biting cold during roll calls that went on for hours. Average survival time in the unventilated paint shop was one month. One prisoner told of being bitten on his legs by guard dogs. Presumably to test the effectiveness of a new medication, one of his legs was treated, the other allowed to fester and deteriorate.

For reasons best known to von Braun, who held the rank of colonel in the dreaded Nazi SS, the prisoners were ordered to turn their backs whenever he came into view. Those caught stealing glances at him were hung. One survivor recalled that von Braun, after inspecting a rocket component, charged, "That is clear sabotage." His unquestioned judgment resulted in eleven men being hanged on the spot. Says Gehrels, "von Braun was directly involved in hangings."

Hangings were commonplace, and Dora inmates remember von Braun arriving in the morning with an unidentified woman, having to step between bodies of dead prisoners and under others still hanging from a crane. These were not ordinary hangings, Gehrels says, "not hanging that breaks the neck of the prisoner, but they were slowly choked to death with a kind of baling wire around their neck."

The above pieces are well researched and paint a bleak picture of Von Braun. Why couldn't NASA have taken the high road and focused on its own rocket scientists? Werner Von Braun should have been put in prison and sentenced to death as a war criminal, not made a director of NASA.

[sandokhan]

The Western secret societies had no idea who Hitler was or what the forces behind the Thule and Vril organizations represented, that is why Hitler did receive some financial help, but it was not really needed.

The Nazi party was financed mostly from private donations made by high ranking Thule secret society members.

Thyssen himself denied authorship of the book I Paid Hitler (1941), and the book contains other unsupported assertions.

The Vatican and the city of London had wanted to use Hitler to go to war against the USSR, but Hitler had no intention of attacking Stalin.

As was made abundantly clear in the classic work The Icebreaker, it was Stalin who attacked Germany in the summer of 1941, with the Nazis reacting at the very last moment.

Stalin wanted to conquer Germany very rapidly and then attack Western Europe with the full might of the Red Army, but the Nazis spoiled his initial plan.


Without Wernher von Braun's expertise, there would have been no Nasa and no Soviet space program: the Americans and the Soviets had no idea how to make a rocket fly without problems.

The most important Nazi scientists escaped to Antarctica where they continued the most secret of all projects: Projekt Kronos.

In fact, Rudolf Hess had to leave Germany and arrive in Antarctica in 1941 in order to lead the entire program.

Rudolf Hess was NOT in the plane headed for Great Britain:

http://www.leninimports.com/rudolf_hess_and_the_royals.html
http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Theory_About_Hess.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20080224123306/http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2106/hess/herald02.htm
http://everything2.com/title/Rudolf+Hess

In his book The Murder of Rudolf Hess, Hugh Thomas casts doubt on the man who was locked up in Berlin's Spandau Prison for so long and offers fairly persuasive evidence that the figure held prisoner there was not the real Hess, but an imposter. Yet if that were the case and the evidence is quite startling why was he not executed at Nuremberg, as so many of his contemporaries were, or simply released as a harmless stooge, before his death there in 1981? Other characters served long prison sentences, such as Albert Speer, a civilian figure who might arguably have had a more heinous war record than Deputy Fuhrer Hess, who, after all absconded to Britain in 1941 before the war had taken a more serious turn for the worse. So why such a long sentence? It has been suggested that Hess was in some way connected to BASE 211 did the real Hess abscond in 1941 to Base 211 itself, simultaneously using a loyal double, with instructions to fly to Scotland and thereafter take the brunt of ridicule and long incarceration? If so, Hess would have effectively disappeared to oversee the development of a fourth Reich in the southern hemisphere.

A. Hitler did not die at all in May 1945, in Germany...on the contrary...

http://tst.greyfalcon.us/Introduction.htm

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/antarctica/antartica22.htm

http://tst.greyfalcon.us/

http://myth.greyfalcon.us/hitler.htm