[Tau]

No one has said any strawmans in this argument but you. It is becoming pretty clear that even you have no idea what your argument is, since the words you are saying so clearly don't match your apparent stance on the issue. Maybe you need to take a writing class.

I said

So how do we change socio-economic disparities in such a way that the people currently dealing with them will see some improvement in their own lives before they die?

This isn't even an argument. It was a question, designed to see if anyone had any good ideas, since I don't. There's no stance here. I'm not advocating for affirmative action or welfare right now. It was then argued against by Rooster. I would consider arguing against a question to be a strawman.

Out of curiosity, what stance do you think I have that I'm failing to support? In what way am I being inconsistent, aside from the fact that my views have evolved a bit since we started this conversation?

[rooster]

Honestly, I don't know how you think I argued against a question. I said there was no immediate fix, just hard work and personal responsibility. That's not an argument, that's an answer.

I want to know how you think that racial issues haven't improved. I am genuinely curious how you don't think we're in a better position now than we were in the 60s and 70s. Hell, we've already experienced a huge change for the better in the lives of any blacks that were born before the 60s.

[Tau]

Honestly, I don't know how you think I argued against a question. I said there was no immediate fix, just hard work and personal responsibility. That's not an argument, that's an answer.

I want to know how you think that racial issues haven't improved. I am genuinely curious how you don't think we're in a better position now than we were in the 60s and 70s. Hell, we've already experienced a huge change for the better in the lives of any blacks that were born before the 60s.

Oh, we're in a much better place than the 60s or 70s. I'd never say otherwise. I'm talking about the last ten years or so. We seem to have stagnated. Wealth inequality between races, for example, stopped decreasing around 2000 according to this graph from Pew Research

[Fortuna]

You'll never change socio-economic disparity. It's just something that sucks that's  always been a part of humanity.

[rooster]

My first assumption would be that the stagnation is due to a certain attitude and mindset rather than a lack of opportunity. There are loans and scholarships aplenty out there for the taking. But now instead of blaming themselves, they choose to blame the government and law enforcement. So I think it might actually keep declining if they refuse to work for their own improvement.

And I'm not judging the poor. I was born into a single parent household of working class. All of my toys and clothes were my brothers' hand me downs. There were several black families in my neighborhood where the kids my age ended up addicted to drugs or having young babies. But I did stay out of trouble, go to college with a scholarship for my good grades, and learn to budget and spend responsibly with no help from my family. So I may not have started from the bottom, but I didn't have even a middle class start yet I still pulled myself up. Of course this is an anecdote, but I just want you to understand that I don't judge them as being inferior and I know it can be done.

[Tau]

My first assumption would be that the stagnation is due to a certain attitude and mindset rather than a lack of opportunity. There are loans and scholarships aplenty out there for the taking. But now instead of blaming themselves, they choose to blame the government and law enforcement. So I think it might actually keep declining if they refuse to work for their own improvement.

And I'm not judging the poor. I was born into a single parent household of working class. All of my toys and clothes were my brothers' hand me downs. There were several black families in my neighborhood where the kids my age ended up addicted to drugs or having young babies. But I did stay out of trouble, go to college with a scholarship for my good grades, and learn to budget and spend responsibly with no help from my family. So I may not have started from the bottom, but I didn't have even a middle class start yet I still pulled myself up. Of course this is an anecdote, but I just want you to understand that I don't judge them as being inferior and I know it can be done.

Oh, I agree. Learned helplessness and lack of motivation are huge pieces of the puzzle. As much as anything else, I'm wondering how we combat those issues, and more importantly what causes them in the first place.

[Hoppy]

My first assumption would be that the stagnation is due to a certain attitude and mindset rather than a lack of opportunity. There are loans and scholarships aplenty out there for the taking. But now instead of blaming themselves, they choose to blame the government and law enforcement. So I think it might actually keep declining if they refuse to work for their own improvement.

And I'm not judging the poor. I was born into a single parent household of working class. All of my toys and clothes were my brothers' hand me downs. There were several black families in my neighborhood where the kids my age ended up addicted to drugs or having young babies. But I did stay out of trouble, go to college with a scholarship for my good grades, and learn to budget and spend responsibly with no help from my family. So I may not have started from the bottom, but I didn't have even a middle class start yet I still pulled myself up. Of course this is an anecdote, but I just want you to understand that I don't judge them as being inferior and I know it can be done.

Rooster is black?

[Tau]

My first assumption would be that the stagnation is due to a certain attitude and mindset rather than a lack of opportunity. There are loans and scholarships aplenty out there for the taking. But now instead of blaming themselves, they choose to blame the government and law enforcement. So I think it might actually keep declining if they refuse to work for their own improvement.

And I'm not judging the poor. I was born into a single parent household of working class. All of my toys and clothes were my brothers' hand me downs. There were several black families in my neighborhood where the kids my age ended up addicted to drugs or having young babies. But I did stay out of trouble, go to college with a scholarship for my good grades, and learn to budget and spend responsibly with no help from my family. So I may not have started from the bottom, but I didn't have even a middle class start yet I still pulled myself up. Of course this is an anecdote, but I just want you to understand that I don't judge them as being inferior and I know it can be done.

Rooster is black?

Just like Jesus

[Rushy]

Not entirely relevant, but a pretty interesting read on culture shock people have when coming to America:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/33vuag/nonamerican_black_people_of_reddit_have_you_ever/

[Saddam Hussein]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html

omg

[Lord Dave]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html

omg

I know right?

Now all those people will think that when you think someone is guilty, a riot will get them arrested and charged.

[Pete Svarrior]

Now all those people will think that when you think someone is guilty, a riot will get them arrested and charged.

Yes, sadly. Even the photos in this article still mention Mike Brown among the people who need justice.

I mean, we can't exactly do more than kill him, so I'd say justice has been served as well as it could have been. :^)

[Saddam Hussein]

And then there's this.  I'm not entirely sure what it means yet.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Although I too am beginning to question some of the deaths in police custody of various people, albeit not all, and I am certainly in favour of people having the right to peaceful protest, the minute it turns to looting and rampage, they should be met with automatic weapons, and their bodies should be left in the street for three days as an example to others who would pull the same shit. Kill the bastards on sight, I don't care if they are black, brown, white, green, or purple, Jew, Gentile, or what.

[Rama Set]

Although I too am beginning to question some of the deaths in police custody of various people, albeit not all, and I am certainly in favour of people having the right to peaceful protest, the minute it turns to looting and rampage, they should be met with automatic weapons, and their bodies should be left in the street for three days as an example to others who would pull the same shit. Kill the bastards on sight, I don't care if they are black, brown, white, green, or purple, Jew, Gentile, or what.

Feel tough?

[Saddam Hussein]

Please just ignore him.  I'd rather not see this turn into yet another "Oy vey" thread.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

This has nothing to do with Judaism or Israel, nor should it. It has everything to do with animals who cannot control their behaviour in the streets of one of our nation's largest cities.

[Rushy]

Killing all of the rioters would cause many, many more problems than it would solve.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Killing all of the rioters would cause many, many more problems than it would solve.

I don't think you would have to kill all of them. Just kill a sufficient number of them to indicate that you are NOT fucking around, and that any further bullshit will be dealt with accordingly. Impose martial law, and go from there. The same thing should be done at our borders. An announcement should be made in the UN. As of this date, at 0800 hours, anyone who crosses the border without authorisation will be shot on site, and the military will be present in force to enforce that command. You would kill the first five that tried. No one else, or at least very few, would be stupid enough to make the attempt. End of story.

[juner]

Yes, the threat of death always stops unwanted behavior. That's why there is no longer murder in places with capital punishment.