[Rushy]

Yaakov, you have a designated thread for Jew battles. This thread is about nuclear weapons and their ability to bring peace and prosperity to a desolate, war-torn region. Either by stopping all wars or making the entire area glow in the dark.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I could report that for insults, but I won't, because I thought it was funny.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

IRUSH, I agree. And Tausami and I are arguing that Israel should not have them, because of how they treat "Palestinians". I submit that he is full of crap, and I think he needs a nap to clear his head a little. "Palestinians" get treated the way they do because they insist on doing horrible things. The conversation actually does not involve either you or Gary.

[Rushy]

I could report that for insults, but I won't, because I thought it was funny.

Then feel free to, it has already been explained to you that calling you a Jew is not an insult because you are literally a Jew.

IRUSH, I agree. And Tausami and I are arguing that Israel should not have them, because of how they treat "Palestinians". I submit that he is full of crap, and I think he needs a nap to clear his head a little. "Palestinians" get treated the way they do because they insist on doing horrible things. The conversation actually does not involve either you or Gary.

Great, so how about you and Tausami having a conversation about genocide and Hitler in a different thread. Thanks.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

No, I am talking about Gary calling me a cunt.

[Rushy]

No, I am talking about Gary calling me a cunt.

Ah, my bad.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

No, I am talking about Gary calling me a cunt.

Ah, my bad.

Its all good. Like I said, it was funny. Crass, but funny.

[garygreen]

No, I am talking about Gary calling me a cunt.

That might have been a little beyond the pale.  My bad.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Why, thank you, Gary. I'll call that a back-handed apology, and carry on. Its all good. Anyway, off the subject of Arabs particularly (which Persians aren't anyway), in general, I would say the world's got enough of the fucking things (nukes). Right now there are 9 countries that have them. Those are if I recall correctly, the United States, Russia, the UK, France, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, and of course, Israel. I think the only country that you actually have to worry about possibly being fucked up enough to use one is North Korea. The biggest risk in Pakistan is that the government might fall and the things might get into the hands of a non-governmental agency like Al Quaida or some other "non-State actor" as they like to call them. And then, all bets are off.

[Vindictus]

It used to exist, before it was subjugated.

Again, same questions.  Tell me about "Palestine". Tell me the name of any leaders it had before Arafat. What kind of government did it have? What currency did it use? Can you show me a political map displaying a country that was ever called "Palestine"?

You don't need any of those things to have a natural claim to the land.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

It used to exist, before it was subjugated.

Again, same questions.  Tell me about "Palestine". Tell me the name of any leaders it had before Arafat. What kind of government did it have? What currency did it use? Can you show me a political map displaying a country that was ever called "Palestine"?

You don't need any of those things to have a natural claim to the land.

International Law would historically disagree with you, not counting the fact that there already IS a "Palestinian" State, called Jordan, which is 70% "Palestinian" in population.

The problem is the following, to wit:

Hamas's charter specifically calls for the destruction of Israel completely. Even the PA says that it will recognise Israel, but NOT as a Jewish State. Well, that is as good as not recognising it at all. What they are asking for is what would eventually become a One State Solution, namely, an Arab Muslim State, with Jews living as a persecuted minority if they lived there at all. Given the history of Jews under Arab rule, that is unlikely. They might have been treated better than they were in Europe, but that is a matter of degree, and it was only a matter of when and where and under which government. Trust me. Knowing the history of my people as I do, I have no desire to live under Muslim rule.

In fact, if you are so keen on us doing it, then I encourage all of you to emigrate RIGHT NOW to Jordan, Iran, or even Egypt. See how you fare as atheists (since it seems that is what most of you are) in a state ruled by Muslims. When your wives are forced to cover everything but their faces (and in some countries everything but their eyes), then come back and tell me how delightful it is to be a non-Muslim in such lands.

[Rushy]

Back on the topic of Iran, I think we've determined it would ultimately calm the situation to give Iran a full fledged nuclear program. Not only would they have cheaper, cleaner power (I imagine right now they burn tons of oil or coal), but it would place them on a level playing field with the countries around them. Pakistan, India, China, and Russia all have nuclear weapons. Iran has been sort of left out in the cold.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Back on the topic of Iran, I think we've determined it would ultimately calm the situation to give Iran a full fledged nuclear program. Not only would they have cheaper, cleaner power (I imagine right now they burn tons of oil or coal), but it would place them on a level playing field with the countries around them. Pakistan, India, China, and Russia all have nuclear weapons. Iran has been sort of left out in the cold.

If they are willing to eliminate the theocracy, I MIGHT be inclined to agree with you. Otherwise, no. A secular government might be trustworthy. The theocracy, that has every intention of bringing on the glorious 12th Imam and the Last Day, is too fucking crazy to trust.

[Tau]

On topics not related to angry money-grubbing jews,

Back on the topic of Iran, I think we've determined it would ultimately calm the situation to give Iran a full fledged nuclear program. Not only would they have cheaper, cleaner power (I imagine right now they burn tons of oil or coal), but it would place them on a level playing field with the countries around them. Pakistan, India, China, and Russia all have nuclear weapons. Iran has been sort of left out in the cold.

You bring up an interesting point about giving them cleaner power. The Middle East largely runs on its oil production. I wonder how a major country's conversion to nuclear energy would effect the regional economy.

To be honest, the only reason I can think of why Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons but Israel or Pakistan should is that the US might end up invading and fucking shit up again if they get them. And that's not really Iran's fault.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Aww. Maybe a bottle, too! Warm milk, Tausami? Again, get rid of the apocalyptic theocracy, and then maybe.

[Vindictus]

On topics not related to angry money-grubbing jews,

Back on the topic of Iran, I think we've determined it would ultimately calm the situation to give Iran a full fledged nuclear program. Not only would they have cheaper, cleaner power (I imagine right now they burn tons of oil or coal), but it would place them on a level playing field with the countries around them. Pakistan, India, China, and Russia all have nuclear weapons. Iran has been sort of left out in the cold.

You bring up an interesting point about giving them cleaner power. The Middle East largely runs on its oil production. I wonder how a major country's conversion to nuclear energy would effect the regional economy.

To be honest, the only reason I can think of why Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons but Israel or Pakistan should is that the US might end up invading and fucking shit up again if they get them. And that's not really Iran's fault.

The middle east is also not lacking for sun and huge swathes of desert landscapes.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I must admit, I have often wondered why the nations of the Middle East haven't tried to make greater use of renewable energy, particularly solar energy, obviously. Especially Israel, which has no oil reserves. Well, they kind of have more than the other countries have, but not near as much as they should have.  And I have often wondered why.

[Tau]

It's probably very much a calculated move to avoid destabilizing the region, even from Israel. When the oil industry starts to implode most of the middle east will probably go with it. Mass unemployment and slow economies don't generally make a region more stable. They tend to make Hitler happen. I'd imagine that the governments of the Middle East live in constant fear of the day renewable energy sources replace oil.

[Rama Set]

It's probably very much a calculated move to avoid destabilizing the region, even from Israel. When the oil industry starts to implode most of the middle east will probably go with it. Mass unemployment and slow economies don't generally make a region more stable. They tend to make Hitler happen. I'd imagine that the governments of the Middle East live in constant fear of the day renewable energy sources replace oil.

But using renewable energy at home would allow for more oil to be exported. That should be pretty beneficial to the region.

[Rushy]

But using renewable energy at home would allow for more oil to be exported. That should be pretty beneficial to the region.

He said "...when the oil industry starts to implode" which is referring to the eventuality that the oil will run out since it is a finite resource. Saudi Arabia won't run out for a long time, but Iran isn't quite so lucky. Iran's limited supply combined with China's outrageous consumption will only end in economic depression sooner or later.