[Ghost Spaghetti]

Surely encouraging more people to look past the lines that divide them and love one another is only going to improve situations for Jews and Muslims alike?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Surely encouraging more people to look past the lines that divide them and love one another is only going to improve situations for Jews and Muslims alike?

Personally, I choose to disagree with you. I consider Islam to be outright dangerous. I would never contemplate marriage to a Muslim. In fact, I would normally, like any Jew, have planned on marrying another Jew. But I fell in love with the most capital woman on the planet, who is, incidentally, a Gentile. Sometimes, events take one by surprise.

But marriage to a Muslim of any variety, Arab or otherwise, is unthinkable for any religious Jew. It is the policy of the Muslim Faith to convert non-Muslims or to force them to live as second-class citizens and pay the Jizyah tax. No Jew should marry into that kind of a mindset. They should be left alone to live with their own kind.

[Rushy]

Wow.

[Rama Set]

Surely encouraging more people to look past the lines that divide them and love one another is only going to improve situations for Jews and Muslims alike?

Personally, I choose to disagree with you. I consider Islam to be outright dangerous. I would never contemplate marriage to a Muslim. In fact, I would normally, like any Jew, have planned on marrying another Jew. But I fell in love with the most capital woman on the planet, who is, incidentally, a Gentile. Sometimes, events take one by surprise.

But marriage to a Muslim of any variety, Arab or otherwise, is unthinkable for any religious Jew. It is the policy of the Muslim Faith to convert non-Muslims or to force them to live as second-class citizens and pay the Jizyah tax. No Jew should marry into that kind of a mindset. They should be left alone to live with their own kind.

You do understand that there is a whole spectrum of adherence in the muslim faith right?  And that there are 1.6B Muslims?  And that they are mostly not extremists?  I am sure there is a muslim out there for you somewhere.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Surely encouraging more people to look past the lines that divide them and love one another is only going to improve situations for Jews and Muslims alike?

Personally, I choose to disagree with you. I consider Islam to be outright dangerous. I would never contemplate marriage to a Muslim. In fact, I would normally, like any Jew, have planned on marrying another Jew. But I fell in love with the most capital woman on the planet, who is, incidentally, a Gentile. Sometimes, events take one by surprise.

But marriage to a Muslim of any variety, Arab or otherwise, is unthinkable for any religious Jew. It is the policy of the Muslim Faith to convert non-Muslims or to force them to live as second-class citizens and pay the Jizyah tax. No Jew should marry into that kind of a mindset. They should be left alone to live with their own kind.

You do understand that there is a whole spectrum of adherence in the muslim faith right?  And that there are 1.6B Muslims?  And that they are mostly not extremists?  I am sure there is a muslim out there for you somewhere.

I am well aware of that. But reading the Qur'an, as I have done three times, and the Sunnah of the Prophet, the minimum level of observance calls for two choices for three choices for non-Muslims in a land ruled by them: conversion, second-class status, or death. I dated a Muslima many years ago, and studied Islam quite thoroughly. I hardly need educated into the ins and outs of said belief structure. Anywhere that they are in power is a threat to anyone else.

[Rushy]

Not all Muslims take the Quran literally. A lot of them, yes, but not all. We would be equally screwed if Christians or Jews took the Bible literally.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Not all Muslims take the Quran literally. A lot of them, yes, but not all. We would be equally screwed if Christians or Jews took the Bible literally.

The problem is, MOST Muslims do. Especially countries that are ruled by them. Try being a Christian anywhere in the Middle East. Egypt, for example, which is 10% Coptic Christian, the largest single Christian minority nation in the Muslim world.

[Rama Set]

Not all Muslims take the Quran literally. A lot of them, yes, but not all. We would be equally screwed if Christians or Jews took the Bible literally.

The problem is, MOST Muslims do. Especially countries that are ruled by them. Try being a Christian anywhere in the Middle East. Egypt, for example, which is 10% Coptic Christian, the largest single Christian minority nation in the Muslim world.

Citation required.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Not all Muslims take the Quran literally. A lot of them, yes, but not all. We would be equally screwed if Christians or Jews took the Bible literally.

The problem is, MOST Muslims do. Especially countries that are ruled by them. Try being a Christian anywhere in the Middle East. Egypt, for example, which is 10% Coptic Christian, the largest single Christian minority nation in the Muslim world.

Citation required.

None required. Try talking to a few. And observe the laws of Egypt, which state clearly that Sharia is the basis for law in Egypt. That in and of itself indicates that mistreatment is the order of the day. In fact, every single Copt I have ever spoken to has indicated that  they are happy as all hell to be out of Egypt, since it is not at all uncommon for Christian girls to be kidnapped and forcibly converted to Islam, and then married against their will to their kidnappers. If the family attempts to do anything about it, the father has been known to be crucified to his house door as an example to others. Also observe that they treat Jews so well that there are only 500 of us left there at present, and we are wise enough to keep a very low profile.

Of course, at least in Egypt it is legal to be Christian. In Saudi Arabia it is not, if you are a citizen of the Kingdom. In fact, being anything other than a Muslim will get you the death penalty. Foreigners are allowed to be other than Muslim, but their churches are not allowed to be visible to the citizens. No Jew is EVER permitted to enter the Kingdom for any reason whatsoever unless he is part of the American military forces protecting said Kingdom. And if your passport contains a stamp from Israel in it, even if you are not a Jew, you are denied entry to the Kingdom unless you are part of the American military force protecting the Kingdom.

Granted, Saudi Arabia is a shithole bar none, aside perhaps from North Korea. And yet we protect it for the sake of its oil. What we ought to do is invade the shithole and conquer it and make it a colonial possession, and if they give us any shit, we ought to turn it into Swiss Cheese. They brutalise one-half the population (ie, females, who are not even allowed to drive by law, cannot get bank accounts without the permission of a mahram [the husband or nearest male relative], their testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court [it takes four women vs two men for valid testimony], along with a host of other bullshit restrictions), aside from not permitting voting that means a damn thing (they do have a Shura, an advisory council to the King which is elected, but that is all it is, is advisory), their King is an Absolute Autocrat Monarch, shall I go on? Oh, by the way, women just this year got permission to vote for the Shura. How magnanimous.

And yet we support these assholes. And of course, the so-called Human Rights Council in the UN, which is made up of such luminaries as Sudan and Iran, spends time criticising the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel, for the way it treats "Palestinians", who are hell-bent on destroying the place. Perhaps if the assholes stopped throwing rockets all over G-d's creation it wouldn't be necessary to militarily occupy "Palestine", not that such a region actually exists on any real map that I've ever seen.

Show me a historical map with a political entity called "Palestine" on it. What kind of government did it have? What currency did it use? Who were its leaders, even one of them, before Arafat the Arch-Terrorist? The fact is, no independent "Palestine" ever existed, nor did a nationality known as "Palestinian". They were all Egyptians and Jordanians before 1976, when both those governments gave up any and all claims to the territories in question (the Gaza Strip and the West Bank respectively). Ergo, the people are stateless. Israel provides them with electricity, which they are unable to pay for. In fact, they owe the Israeli State owned electricity company about 5 billion shekels at this point. They also provide water which "Palestine" can't pay for. A so-called "independent state" that can't even provide services to its "citizens". What a joke, and not even a funny one. Hell, Israel wouldn't even need to attack them. Just withhold water and electricity, and starve them out, and solve the problem that way. But that would be a brutally slow way of doing it. Of course, eventually, they would have to come to terms. Its called "siege", last time I checked. It tends to work pretty well.

[Rama Set]

The problem is, MOST Muslims do.

Try talking to a few.

Please reconcile these two statements.  It appears there is some sort of incredible statistical analysis taking place to get from talking to 2 or 3 people to the views of over 800 million muslims.

<Extremely long and irrelevant rant>

So you think that because a government has a law, everyone in that country believes it is just?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Egypt has had several chances lately to change their laws, what with the "revolutions", and has chosen not to. And try more like 10 or 12, rather than 2 or 3, and we are speaking of Copts in Egypt, not Christians elsewhere in the Muslim world, although any perusal of the daily world news will make clear that the situation is dire for Christians pretty much everywhere in the Muslim world, just as it is for Jews.

And my comments on the KSA were relevant. You simply had no adequate response to them. The remarks make it clear that Islam is dangerous to the civilised world wherever it holds sway, as it does in the KSA. It must be prevented from spreading further.

[Rama Set]

Egypt has had several chances lately to change their laws, what with the "revolutions", and has chosen not to. And try more like 10 or 12, rather than 2 or 3, and we are speaking of Copts in Egypt, not Christians elsewhere in the Muslim world, although any perusal of the daily world news will make clear that the situation is dire for Christians pretty much everywhere in the Muslim world, just as it is for Jews.

And my comments on the KSA were relevant. You simply had no adequate response to them. The remarks make it clear that Islam is dangerous to the civilised world wherever it holds sway, as it does in the KSA. It must be prevented from spreading further.

Maybe but you are still full of it when you say, "The problem is, MOST Muslims do."  Good try though.

[mister bickles]

what does it mean to be "jewish" ?

(a "religion" based on a disclaimer is a gutter religion    )

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Egypt has had several chances lately to change their laws, what with the "revolutions", and has chosen not to. And try more like 10 or 12, rather than 2 or 3, and we are speaking of Copts in Egypt, not Christians elsewhere in the Muslim world, although any perusal of the daily world news will make clear that the situation is dire for Christians pretty much everywhere in the Muslim world, just as it is for Jews.

And my comments on the KSA were relevant. You simply had no adequate response to them. The remarks make it clear that Islam is dangerous to the civilised world wherever it holds sway, as it does in the KSA. It must be prevented from spreading further.

Maybe but you are still full of it when you say, "The problem is, MOST Muslims do."  Good try though.

Actually, I am not full of it at all. You just have no adequate response. And my good buddy Mister Bickles is back! What fun!

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

what does it mean to be "jewish" (sic) ?

(a "religion" based on a disclaimer is a gutter religion    )

Well, there's an orthographic error in what little you wrote for one. And for two, I actually bothered to listen to the batshit crazy monk, and he is that, quite literally batshit crazy. Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah simply because he didn't do what the Messiah is expected to do, not that we had anything to do with his death, which was a Roman issue. In fact, the "New Testament", which I have read twice, and probably know more about than Bickles does, is so far off accurate it becomes laughable.

1. Jesus is arrested at night, and taken before a partial Sanhedrin of about 15 people.

Problem A. The Sanhedrin never met at night.
Problem B. They never met in a a quorum of less than 71.

2. He is found guilty and sentenced to death and turned over to the Romans.

Problem C. The Jews had the power to execute by stoning for violation of their own Law. Although they needed permission of the Roman Governor, this was rarely if ever denied. Why give Jesus to the Romans when he could have been executed by them? It would have been a lot faster and easier, and far less obvious, to do it themselves.

3. They wait until the next day to execute him.

Problem D. Why? The Jews could have stoned him at pretty much any time. It would have been simpler.

Now let's look at events in the life of Jesus, starting with the Cleansing of the Temple. The Temple was guarded by a cordon of Roman soldiers at all times, which was doubled or even tripled during holidays. If Jesus had tried to go in there with a whip and overturn tables and whip people, the fact is, he would have been turned into Swiss Cheese by an ever vigilant guard.

And that is just for starters. I could go on, but I think my point is made for the moment...

But, lets look at the fact that Jesus did not re-institute the Davidic Kingdom of Israel.

He did not bring about world peace.

He did not rebuild the Temple.

Those are just three things that the Messiah is supposed to do that Jesus did not do. Ergo, Jesus may be many things, a brilliant Rabbi, a mensch (Yiddish for "all around good guy"), a learned fellow, but he wasn't the Messiah. Nor does he ever make a blatant statement indicating such in the "New Testament". Nor does he ever claim to be G-d.

On another aspect of what the batshit crazy monk said, I saw a picture of two homosexuals kissing. Now, I find that as distasteful as Bickles does, although I don't personally give a shit what two consenting adults do in their bedroom. I mean, personally, I find it immoral, but it is not my business to tell other people how to live their moral lives. Moving onward, though, THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THE MEN IN THE PICTURE WERE JEWS. In fact, I have met TWO Jews in my life that were homosexuals. One was male, and one was female. EVERY OTHER HOMOSEXUAL I HAVE EVER MET IN MY LIFE HAS BEEN A GENTILE.

Incidentally, the Hebrew Bible says NOTHING about two women lying with one another. There is nothing on the subject at all in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. Whatever a person's own views on the subject might be, one cannot go there to find an objection to the matter.

The fact remains, however, that, although I myself am a happily married straight male, I have known many gay men, quite a few lesbians, and a few transgendered persons in my time. And every one of them has been a Gentile except for two, unless you count a third who had converted to Christianity, which, by definition, makes him a non-Jew, and thus, a Gentile. So...

And for our wonderful Holocaust denier, a recent notice in the news...

http://news.yahoo.com/ex-nazi-bookkeeper-auschwitz-goes-trial-germany-082003432.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/21/oskar-groening-trial-auschwitz_n_7107032.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[Tau]

Egypt has had several chances lately to change their laws, what with the "revolutions", and has chosen not to. And try more like 10 or 12, rather than 2 or 3, and we are speaking of Copts in Egypt, not Christians elsewhere in the Muslim world, although any perusal of the daily world news will make clear that the situation is dire for Christians pretty much everywhere in the Muslim world, just as it is for Jews.

And my comments on the KSA were relevant. You simply had no adequate response to them. The remarks make it clear that Islam is dangerous to the civilised world wherever it holds sway, as it does in the KSA. It must be prevented from spreading further.

Maybe but you are still full of it when you say, "The problem is, MOST Muslims do."  Good try though.

Actually, I am not full of it at all. You just have no adequate response. And my good buddy Mister Bickles is back! What fun!

No adequate response to what? You don't have an argument for us to respond to.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Most Muslims believe what the Qur'an tells them about non-Muslims. After reading it three times, and studying in a Mosque for two years before becoming observant, I know this. You evidently do not. Read the Sunnah as well, where these beliefs are confirmed. And every Muslim I ever met confirmed that nearly all of them upheld Qur'anic standards. One almost has to.

[Ghost Spaghetti]

If a Muslim is prepared to marry a Jew, it tells me that their particular interpretation of islam is at least flexible enough to ignore the Jew-hating bits. Surely this is the direction that we want to be encouraging Islam to take. Does it matter if 'Most Muslims believe x' if the Muslim doing the marrying doesn't?

It's like the flourishing underground gay scene in Pakistan. Most of the men and women involved are Muslims, but their religion has been flexed to accept them.

[Tau]

Most Muslims believe what the Qur'an tells them about non-Muslims. After reading it three times, and studying in a Mosque for two years before becoming observant, I know this. You evidently do not. Read the Sunnah as well, where these beliefs are confirmed. And every Muslim I ever met confirmed that nearly all of them upheld Qur'anic standards. One almost has to.

I'm not convinced you've ever met a muslim

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Most Muslims believe what the Qur'an tells them about non-Muslims. After reading it three times, and studying in a Mosque for two years before becoming observant, I know this. You evidently do not. Read the Sunnah as well, where these beliefs are confirmed. And every Muslim I ever met confirmed that nearly all of them upheld Qur'anic standards. One almost has to.

I'm not convinced you've ever met a muslim

Ask me if I give a shit what you're convinced of.