[Desmondo]

I was just wondering how many people you think are in on the conspiracy? I've looked at the wiki, but it doesn't seem to give any figures. Just thinking about it though, you'd have:

1) All the pilots in the world (according to another thread, they are all paid to 'circle around a bit' to make up for the quicker journeys a flat earth would provide) - there are at least 800,000 pilots in the US alone, and there are thus probably at least over a million in the world. And none have ever said anything?

2) Every space agency that has claimed to have launched something into space. Because either they're lying, or they've seen the earth from a satellite/shuttle etc and have been taken in by the conspiracy. Why would countries like N Korea want to be part of the conspiracy. Surely it would be a massive propaganda coup to give evidence that the US has been lying for decades.

3) GPS companies. So how does GPS work then?

4) Phone companies.

5) probably more that I haven't thought of yet

And why hasn't this site been shut down, if the conspiracy has the power to successfully silence so many people?

Thanks in advance for the answers, and sorry for the length

[Ghost of V]

1) Most pilots aren't aware that the Earth is flat. They just go along with their pilot training, which teaches them the "circle around a bit" (as you call it) technique. Many planes are entirely automated in the air as well, so pilots usually just sit back and smoke cigars and whatnot while the plane is actually flying. They don't know, and they probably don't care.

2) Yes, NASA is lying. Every other space agency across the Earth is lying. They're doing it for financial reasons. There are many raw materials littering the ice wall, many of which are very valuable. They're doing it for money, basically. And money is the most legitimate reason to do anything; almost all of society is based on this principle.

3) GPS works by sonar off reflectors on weather balloons high in the sky. It's a pretty simple concept, actually.

4) Why would phone companies be lying? They're using the same weather balloons.

5) Please get back to us.

[jroa]

1)  Pilots don't have to be in on the conspiracy.  They simply follow their instruments and go where the instruments tell them.

2)  Countries pretend do go to space all the time.  Have you not seen the fake Chinese space walk?

3)  Positioning signals can be sent from ground based transmitters.

4)  There are cables running under the oceans connecting all of the continents.

5)  In the future, please only bring up one point that you wish to discuss at a time.  Threads with multiple questions and answers can get confusing quickly.  You will also get more detailed answers when people only have to answer one at a time. 

[Rama Set]

Looks like Vauxhall and Jroa need to compare notes, or have a death match or something.

[Pythagoras]

3) GPS works by sonar off reflectors on weather balloons high in the sky. It's a pretty simple concept, actually.

How would sonar work in the atmosphere?

[Tau]

Looks like Vauxhall and Jroa need to compare notes, or have a death match or something.

FE'ers are not required to agree. There are multiple working, theoretical models of FET. This is a good thing and a sign of a healthy theory.

[Desmondo]

1) So all the instruments have been built so that they lie to the pilots, while autopilot circles the plane around? And none of the literally millions of pilots ever wondered why their plane kept banking when the autopilot said it was flying in a straight line? Because you can feel when a plane turns.

2) How do satellite pictures work?

3) But I don't get why the GPS companies would have talked about satellites in the first place. Surely it would have been easier to just say they were using weather balloons or ground signals, instead of lying about satellites and adding in a load of extra people and complication and possible whistle blowers into the conspiracy. Because at this point, anyone whose job is to do with monitoring the GPS satellites or anything will know that they don't really exist.

4) Again, why would phone companies make up the satellite story in the first place? It just adds so much more complication to the whole conspiracy.

[Desmondo]

5)  In the future, please only bring up one point that you wish to discuss at a time.  Threads with multiple questions and answers can get confusing quickly.  You will also get more detailed answers when people only have to answer one at a time.

Sorry about that. I've got a few more questions to ask. Should I start a new thread or post them on this one?

[Gulliver]

FE'ers are not required to agree. There are multiple working, theoretical models of FET. This is a good thing and a sign of a healthy theory.

I think this is a little misleading. Some FEers eschew "theory", embracing instead the zetetic philosophy, which allows only the correct interpretation.

For example, see:

THE term Zetetic is derived from the Greek verb Zeteo; which means to search, or examine; to proceed only by inquiry; to take nothing for granted, but to trace phenomena to their immediate and demonstrable causes. It is here used in contradistinction from the word "theoretic," the meaning of which is, speculative--imaginary--not tangible,--scheming, but not proving.

and reference: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za04.htm

Tom Bishop and pizzaplanet have been vocal on the issue as well. I encourage the use of the Forum's advanced search function to explore their points.

[Tau]

FE'ers are not required to agree. There are multiple working, theoretical models of FET. This is a good thing and a sign of a healthy theory.

I think this is a little misleading. Some FEers eschew "theory", embracing instead the zetetic philosophy, which allows only the correct interpretation.

For example, see:

THE term Zetetic is derived from the Greek verb Zeteo; which means to search, or examine; to proceed only by inquiry; to take nothing for granted, but to trace phenomena to their immediate and demonstrable causes. It is here used in contradistinction from the word "theoretic," the meaning of which is, speculative--imaginary--not tangible,--scheming, but not proving.

and reference: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za04.htm

Tom Bishop and pizzaplanet have been vocal on the issue as well. I encourage the use of the Forum's advanced search function to explore their points.

Pure zetetics do not produce theoretical models of FET. They do not go farther than pointing out that the Earth is flat, and other easily provable facts. The zetetic model is that from which all theoretical models follow. Those of us who refer to zeteticism and still theorize are neo-zetetics. I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here, but we're definitely getting off topic and I'm really not sure a semantic argument about the definition of zeteticism is one worth having. I definitely don't want to have it.

[Pete Svarrior]

Tom Bishop and pizzaplanet have been vocal on the issue as well.

For clarity, I was vocal only in objecting your dislike of the term "conspiracy theory", largely due to your repeated assertion that a word can only have one meaning. At no point did I mention zeteticism vs theories. We ended that thread with me requesting that you form your views coherently and you refusing to do so.

A cursory search for the term "zetetic" in my posts brings up 2 results, both of which refer to the Zetetic Council, and one only comes up because the word was used in a quote. The exact same results come up for just "zetet". If we go for "zet", the anime Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei joins the list. It is therefore safe to assume that I wasn't vocal on the issue of zeteticism (or any derived terms) at all.

Please refrain from misinforming newcomers. It's just poor taste. If your intention was not to misinform - well, you've done it anyway. Please make sure that you verify your claims before making them. Perhaps taking your own advice to [engage in] the use of the Forum's advanced search function would be a good start?

[Pete Svarrior]

Sorry about that. I've got a few more questions to ask. Should I start a new thread or post them on this one?

Generally, I'd recommend separate threads. As you may have already seen (courtesy of ClockTower), threads here can easily get sidetracked, and thus we may miss things if we try lumping everything in one place. It just helps the flow of conversation.

[Gulliver]

Tom Bishop and pizzaplanet have been vocal on the issue as well.

For clarity, I was vocal only in objecting your dislike of the term "conspiracy theory", largely due to your repeated assertion that a word can only have one meaning. At no point did I mention zeteticism vs theories. We ended that thread with me requesting that you form your views coherently and you refusing to do so.

A cursory search for the term "zetetic" in my posts brings up 2 results, both of which refer to the Zetetic Council, and one only comes up because the word was used in a quote. The exact same results come up for just "zetet". If we go for "zet", the anime Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei joins the list. It is therefore safe to assume that I wasn't vocal on the issue of zeteticism (or any derived terms) at all.

Please refrain from misinforming newcomers. It's just poor taste. If your intention was not to misinform - well, you've done it anyway. Please make sure that you verify your claims before making them. Perhaps taking your own advice to [engage in] the use of the Forum's advanced search function would be a good start?

I refer you to your post:

My point stands, FET includes a conspiracy and is thereby not Science.

FET is not science by default (even though it does not intrinsically include a conspiracy). We reject the scientific method as something that's insufficient for the purpose of establishing the truth. This is something you've known for a long time. If you now claim that, after two pages of arguing and continuously failing at understanding simple human communication and set theory, you conclude the obvious, then I take that as a concession that you no longer have an argument, assuming you had one to begin with (which is generous).

[Rushy]

3) GPS works by sonar off reflectors on weather balloons high in the sky. It's a pretty simple concept, actually.

How would sonar work in the atmosphere?

Pretty much the same way it works underwater. You are aware that air propagates sound, correct?

[Tau]

I refer you to your post:

My point stands, FET includes a conspiracy and is thereby not Science.

FET is not science by default (even though it does not intrinsically include a conspiracy). We reject the scientific method as something that's insufficient for the purpose of establishing the truth. This is something you've known for a long time. If you now claim that, after two pages of arguing and continuously failing at understanding simple human communication and set theory, you conclude the obvious, then I take that as a concession that you no longer have an argument, assuming you had one to begin with (which is generous).

Are you arguing with PP about what he meant when he said that? Are you seriously that narcissistic? Besides, rejecting the scientific method does not automatically make one a pure zeteticist.

[Gulliver]

I refer you to your post:

My point stands, FET includes a conspiracy and is thereby not Science.

FET is not science by default (even though it does not intrinsically include a conspiracy). We reject the scientific method as something that's insufficient for the purpose of establishing the truth. This is something you've known for a long time. If you now claim that, after two pages of arguing and continuously failing at understanding simple human communication and set theory, you conclude the obvious, then I take that as a concession that you no longer have an argument, assuming you had one to begin with (which is generous).

Are you arguing with PP about what he meant when he said that? Are you seriously that narcissistic? Besides, rejecting the scientific method does not automatically make one a pure zeteticist.

No, I'm not arguing at all. That was a quote. I never claimed that rejecting SM makes one a "pure zeteticist". I don't even know what one is. Rowbotham defines the term zetetic as contradictory to "theoretic" on page 1 of EnaG. The SM uses processes that often use theories. So you can't both use theory and claim to be zetetic, according to Rowbotham. Are you trying to argue that there's no true Scotsman?

[Tom Bishop]

There is no one in on a conspiracy to hide the flat earth. They are merely mistaken.

[spoon]

I adhere to the theory that GPS services are available because of "stratellites", which are basically satellites within the atmosphere.

[Gulliver]

There is no one in on a conspiracy to hide the flat earth. They are merely mistaken.

How does one merely mistake the photos they believe Neil took on the Apollo 11 mission? How did Neil merely mistake taking the photos?

[Tom Bishop]

There is no one in on a conspiracy to hide the flat earth. They are merely mistaken.

How does one merely mistake the photos they believe Neil took on the Apollo 11 mission? How did Neil merely mistake taking the photos?

From http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort.

There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). The motto "Scientific exploration of new frontiers for all mankind" was nothing more than a front.

See this quote from president Lyndon Johnson:

"Control of space means control of the world. From space, the masters of infinity would have the power to control the earth's weather, to cause drought and flood, to change the tides and raise the levels of the sea, to divert the gulf stream and change temperate climates to frigid. There is something more important than the ultimate weapon. And that's the ultimate position. The position of total control over the Earth that lies somewhere in outer space." —President Lyndon Johnson, Statement on Status of Nation's Defense and Race for Space, January 7, 1958

One month later, Lyndon Johnson and the Senate Special Committee on Space and Astronautics drafted a resolution to change the name of the US Army's Ballistic Missile Arsenal to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

NASA's early rocket research is well documented to have been a complete failure, plagued by one disaster after another. At some point, perhaps after the Apollo 1 disaster, it was decided to fake the space program outright and use rockets which only needed to fly into the air until they disappeared from sight. NASA went from nearly every launch being a failure to a near flawless track record, able to land man on the moon multiple times without error, and with only two public spectacles of failure in 45 years.

The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round. They are not running a real space program, so they wouldn't know what shape the earth truly takes. At the time of NASA's creation the general population already believed that the earth was round, based on the handed down teachings of the Ancient Greeks, which is why it was depicted in that manner. As with everyone else in the country, the people at NASA were taught the fiction of a globe earth from the cradle, so there was no doubt in their mind as how to display it.