US Presidential Election 2024

Lord Dave · « **Reply #80 on:** August 29, 2024, 07:29:58 PM »

Trump? Thumbs upping dead people? Not shocked.
Nor is the whole violence it. He's surrounded by rabid, fanatical, stressed supporters. They want him to succeed but he keeps yelling at them for not doing their job so they have to fight twice as hard to make him happy, which is largely impossible.

Rushy · « **Reply #81 on:** August 29, 2024, 08:10:43 PM »

It's not like Trump has a long history of being a dick to military personnel or something...

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/

Lord Dave · « **Reply #82 on:** August 29, 2024, 08:19:03 PM »

It's how you know it's a cult:

They love the military and ignore when Trump insults the military.

Action80 · « **Reply #83 on:** August 30, 2024, 05:51:47 AM »

"Thank you, Alex. I'll take, 'Things that did not happen' for 500!

Lord Dave · « **Reply #84 on:** August 30, 2024, 06:01:37 AM »

Quote from: Action80 on August 30, 2024, 05:51:47 AM

"Thank you, Alex. I'll take, 'Things that did not happen' for 500!

Says who? Cause Trump's own PR team says it did.

Action80 · « **Reply #85 on:** August 30, 2024, 12:46:25 PM »

Was it paid for by the campaign?

Yeah, it was not a campaign event.

The family in question invited him to the cemetery.

Then he took a photo with the family.

Lord Dave · « **Reply #86 on:** August 30, 2024, 01:01:08 PM »

Quote from: Action80 on August 30, 2024, 12:46:25 PM

Was it paid for by the campaign?

Yeah, it was not a campaign event.

The family in question invited him to the cemetery.

Then he took a photo with the family.

Yes, it was paid for by the campaign. Or did his PR guy, driver, and whoever else was involved do it for free? Did they go "Hey Donald, we'll drive you and I'll pay for the gas"?

And was the photos and video posted to his campaign social media? Yes!

Thus, political campaign event. Even if its a small one.

And even if it was paid...

https://www.tiktok.com/@realdonaldtrump/video/7407571442088430878?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=7408917264529622561

That. That video? Illegal. He made a video for political campaign reasons and posted it on his campaign social media. Again, illegal. And the lady who tried to tell him that got assaulted and yelled at.

honk · « **Reply #87 on:** August 30, 2024, 01:22:36 PM »

I especially love how part of the plan was to pretend this was an official memorial and then criticize Kamala for not attending. And judging by the number of Trump fans on Twitter I've seen responding to this story by asking where she was or why she wasn't there, it may actually be working, at least among their target audience.

Lord Dave · « **Reply #88 on:** August 30, 2024, 01:34:59 PM »

Trump is very good at making his supporters think a certain way. Less good at getting new supporters.

Tom Bishop · « **Reply #89 on:** August 30, 2024, 04:31:18 PM »

I just see a picture of Trump smiling with some people.

Did he hold a campaign rally there? No. Courts always hold the standard of substantial evidence of intent, not vague interpretation. There are no signs, memorabilia, there were no speeches, or anything indicative of a campaign event. The event he attended is obviously specifically about the 13 dead people and not about the alive Trump, so it's not a Trump campaign event.

Trump posting it to his social media feed also does not retroactively turn something that was not a campaign even into a campaign event. By that logic Trump could post a picture of himself shaking hands with Muhammad Ali in 1985 and we would have to hold that the 1985 handshake was a Trump campaign event, which is nonsense.

Action80 · « **Reply #90 on:** August 30, 2024, 06:51:56 PM »

Yeah, these bots are reaching for straws.

No one in their right mind would connect attending a memorial service to a campaign event.

Lord Dave · « **Reply #91 on:** August 30, 2024, 08:09:45 PM »

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 30, 2024, 04:31:18 PM

I just see a picture of Trump smiling with some people.

Did he hold a campaign rally there? No. Courts always hold the standard of substantial evidence of intent, not vague interpretation. There are no signs, memorabilia, there were no speeches, or anything indicative of a campaign event. The event he attended is obviously specifically about the 13 dead people and not about the alive Trump, so it's not a Trump campaign event.

Trump posting it to his social media feed also does not retroactively turn something that was not a campaign even into a campaign event. By that logic Trump could post a picture of himself shaking hands with Muhammad Ali in 1985 and we would have to hold that the 1985 handshake was a Trump campaign event, which is nonsense.

A rally is not required, only that the grounds be used for political reasons. Which it was. He did a Political PR stunt. Then made a political video for his campaign. It's pretty cut and dry there.

Action80 · « **Reply #92 on:** August 30, 2024, 08:35:27 PM »

LD: "Getting invited to a wreath-laying ceremony and attending as asked is a political PR stunt!"

Can't make this shit up...

Lord Dave · « **Reply #93 on:** August 30, 2024, 08:59:00 PM »

Quote from: Action80 on August 30, 2024, 08:35:27 PM

LD: "Getting invited to a wreath-laying ceremony and attending as asked is a political PR stunt!"

Can't make this shit up...

Odd that he'd make a whole video for his campaign about it if it wasn't a PR stunt. Especially since he skipped the last two years...

Action80 · « **Reply #94 on:** August 30, 2024, 11:01:52 PM »

Quote from: Lord Dave on August 30, 2024, 08:59:00 PM

Odd that he'd make a whole video for his campaign about it if it wasn't a PR stunt. Especially since he skipped the last two years...

Odd the family asked for photos and video and odd he skipped because he wasn't invited there the last two years?

LMMFAO!

Roundy · « **Reply #95 on:** August 30, 2024, 11:44:55 PM »

https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1829625590783361406?t=19rps8pAWGeRB1j55TTtww&s=19

Hmm

honk · « **Reply #96 on:** August 31, 2024, 01:27:14 AM »

Trump grinning and flashing a thumbs-up in that picture - beyond being incredibly tacky and inappropriate - is all the proof we need that this was meant as a political stunt and wasn't simply a neutral, respectful visit to the cemetery. Why would he be posing like that if it wasn't meant to be a political photo op? In fact, why would Trump's own photographer (as opposed to the official photographers who work at Arlington) be there and photographing him at all if it wasn't a political photo op? By the way, it's only a matter of time before Trump changes his story to "Yes, this was a political photo op, and it's good that it was." He first denies, then admits what happened every time he gets into trouble, and every time he does, he makes the people who have been denying the story on his behalf look ridiculous.

Tom Bishop · « **Reply #97 on:** August 31, 2024, 02:21:15 AM »

Quote from: Lord Dave on August 30, 2024, 08:09:45 PM

A rally is not required, only that the grounds be used for political reasons.

Then the problem is clearly with this interpretation. According to this interpretation if a reporter writes an article saying that a pro-war politician hypocritically visited the military cemetery, then that reporter used the cemetery grounds for political purposes and should be fined/arrested.

How many politicians have pictures of themselves laying a wreath at Arlington National Cemetery? Can we just assume that it is many politicians, or do we need a collage of demonstrative photos? It could be argued that any sharing of a picture or video of a politician at Arlington is used for political reasons, as it would imply a moral or patriotic message about that politician.

Even in your own wording we find a concession that the interpretation is wrong. You are saying that the grounds cannot be used for political reasons. The grounds were used for non-political reasons at the time of the event. The photos of a non-political event were then distributed for political reasons. Talking about or looking at photos or video of an event is not a continuation of an event that is done and over, and nor is it use of the grounds, and can therefore be freely politicized.

Use of the grounds has a specific meaning. For example, if you are talking about a picture of a public park it is not use of the grounds.

You can obviously write an article about politicians visiting the cemetery with your own political slant, and you can also obviously share and talk about photos or videos of politicians visiting the cemetery with your political slant. This right extends to the politicians talking about their own visit as well. Arguing that you can talk about it with your political slant but Trump can't would clearly be a terrible argument.

Quote from: honk on August 31, 2024, 01:27:14 AM

Trump grinning and flashing a thumbs-up in that picture - beyond being incredibly tacky and inappropriate

In one post you are wishing that Trump had been shot in the head and assassinated, and in another post you are a colonial era puritan who says it is inappropriate to smile or display positive gestures at cemeteries. So we can stop reading your larp with any seriousness right there.

honk · « **Reply #98 on:** August 31, 2024, 05:24:39 AM »

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 31, 2024, 02:21:15 AM

How many politicians have pictures of themselves laying a wreath at Arlington National Cemetery? Can we just assume that it is many politicians, or do we need a collage of demonstrative photos? It could be argued that any sharing of a picture or video of a politician at Arlington is used for political reasons, as it would imply a moral or patriotic message about that politician.

Those pictures are taken by official Arlington photographers for official Arlington events. Once the politicians have access to the pictures, they can of course do whatever they want with them, but what they can't do is bring their own photographers onto Arlington to take pictures for their own political gain.

Quote

you are a colonial era puritan who says it is inappropriate to smile or display positive gestures at cemeteries

No, I didn't say that. I'm specifically talking about Trump's performative broad grin and thumbs-up. The vast majority of people can intuit a clear difference between an occasional smile and a display of crude, gleeful exuberance, especially when it's coming from a politician who doesn't know any of the deceased.

Lord Dave · « **Reply #99 on:** August 31, 2024, 05:58:24 AM »

Quote from: Action80 on August 30, 2024, 11:01:52 PM

Quote from: Lord Dave on August 30, 2024, 08:59:00 PM
Odd that he'd make a whole video for his campaign about it if it wasn't a PR stunt. Especially since he skipped the last two years...
Odd the family asked for photos and video and odd he skipped because he wasn't invited there the last two years?

LMMFAO!

That IS odd. Maybe you should verify that. From someone not Trump.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 31, 2024, 02:21:15 AM

Quote from: Lord Dave on August 30, 2024, 08:09:45 PM
A rally is not required, only that the grounds be used for political reasons.

Then the problem is clearly with this interpretation. According to this interpretation if a reporter writes an article saying that a pro-war politician hypocritically visited the military cemetery, then that reporter used the cemetery grounds for political purposes and should be fined/arrested.

How many politicians have pictures of themselves laying a wreath at Arlington National Cemetery? Can we just assume that it is many politicians, or do we need a collage of demonstrative photos? It could be argued that any sharing of a picture or video of a politician at Arlington is used for political reasons, as it would imply a moral or patriotic message about that politician.

Even in your own wording we find a concession that the interpretation is wrong. You are saying that the grounds cannot be used for political reasons. The grounds were used for non-political reasons at the time of the event. The photos of a non-political event were then distributed for political reasons. Talking about or looking at photos or video of an event is not a continuation of an event that is done and over, and nor is it use of the grounds, and can therefore be freely politicized.

Use of the grounds has a specific meaning. For example, if you are talking about a picture of a public park it is not use of the grounds.

You can obviously write an article about politicians visiting the cemetery with your own political slant, and you can also obviously share and talk about photos or videos of politicians visiting the cemetery with your political slant. This right extends to the politicians talking about their own visit as well. Arguing that you can talk about it with your political slant but Trump can't would clearly be a terrible argument.

Quote from: honk on August 31, 2024, 01:27:14 AM
Trump grinning and flashing a thumbs-up in that picture - beyond being incredibly tacky and inappropriate

In one post you are wishing that Trump had been shot in the head and assassinated, and in another post you are a colonial era puritan who says it is inappropriate to smile or display positive gestures at cemeteries. So we can stop reading your larp with any seriousness right there.

Quote

Filming or photographing will not be permitted if it conveys the impression that cemetery officials or any visitor or family member is endorsing any product, service or organization," an official media policy memo reads.
It continues, "Additionally, ANC will not authorize any filming for partisan, political or fundraising purposes," citing the Hatch Act, which governs how federal employees can weigh in on political activities.
The memo specifically cites 32 CFR 553, which states, among other guidelines, that "Memorial services and ceremonies at Army National Military Cemeteries will not include partisan political activities."

https://www.axios.com/2024/08/29/trump-arlington-national-cemetery-rules

So Trump brought his own team to make a non- political appearance and take photos...
Yeah no. There's no reason for it.
And when officials of the cemetery try to stop you, your response shouldn't be to shove them out of the way and keep going. But Trump and his team likes to ignore rules they find inconvenient.

Finally:
How out of touch are you?
A thumbs up is generally considered to be positive to the context it was made in. The context is soldiers, family members, died. So Trump is thumbs upping dead soldiers in pictures with said soldier's families.

Allow me to speak in your language.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16959.msg287829#msg287829