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Offline Lord Wilmore

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You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« on: August 13, 2014, 05:45:24 PM »
https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb


I found this to be an immensely challenging and interesting read. Discuss, share thoughts, etc.
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Offline Tau

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2014, 06:37:22 PM »
The first half of that was almost physically painful to read.

That sort of thing has always kind of bothered me. Paedophiles, psychopaths/sociopaths, Nazis, ect. are kind of thrown into this static grouping of pure unadulterated evil. It's difficult to even begin to dispute that without sounding like you're okay with paedophilia or Naziism or whatever, and that leads to a system where the mere mention of the group in any way that doesn't involve their terribleness makes you a bad person. But that ignores that fact that behind every child molester is a real human being with thoughts and feelings and complexity. How the hell are we ever going to prevent that crime from happening if we can't accept that the person committing it is a real human being and not a cartoon super villain? And then when we find out that a person is a child molester (see: Jimmy Saville, allegedly Michael Jackson, stereotypical catholic priests, etc.) there will always be a big percent of the population thinking, "well that can't be right. Child molesters aren't real people, they're monsters that look like people. I know this person is a real person, so he must be innocent."

This can be extrapolated to pretty much any crime, although paedophilia is probably the most extreme case of it. Regular rapists, for example. Just about anyone would be in favor of tougher penalties for rapists, and some quick googling shows that support for the Death Penalty for rapists is similar to support for the Death Penalty for murder. But the moment it's an actual person committing the crime and not a stereotype, everyone is sympathetic. Remember Steubenville? The amount of victim blaming is immense, and I think a lot of it is that there's a certain disparity between our idea of a rapist and an actual rapist.

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tl;dr, it's really easy to view people like paedophiles as Bad People Who Cannot Be Stopped, but that ignores the fact that real paedophiles are real people who can be prevented from hurting anyone.
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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 06:50:18 PM »
There's a lot of research suggesting that pedophilia is a genetic condition that some people are born with. One day pedos will be able to pop some pills to make it all go away, or maybe something a bit more drastic than that. Either way, most of these people probably can't help feeling the way they do and shouldn't be persecuted because of it.

That being said, I think there's a big difference between people who have pedophilic urges and people who act on those urges. One is obviously worse than the other.

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Offline Tau

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2014, 06:56:20 PM »
There's a lot of research suggesting that pedophilia is a genetic condition that some people are born with. One day pedos will be able to pop some pills to make it all go away, or maybe something a bit more drastic than that. Either way, most of these people probably can't help feeling the way they do and shouldn't be persecuted because of it.

That being said, I think there's a big difference between people who have pedophilic urges and people who act on those urges. One is obviously worse than the other.

I wouldn't even put them in the same category. Paedophiles are people with a terrible genetic condition. Child molesters are people who molest children. Judging people on what they might do is some Minority Report shit
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Ghost of V

Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 06:58:40 PM »
There's a lot of research suggesting that pedophilia is a genetic condition that some people are born with. One day pedos will be able to pop some pills to make it all go away, or maybe something a bit more drastic than that. Either way, most of these people probably can't help feeling the way they do and shouldn't be persecuted because of it.

That being said, I think there's a big difference between people who have pedophilic urges and people who act on those urges. One is obviously worse than the other.

I wouldn't even put them in the same category. Judging people on what they might do is some Minority Report shit

I agree, but a lot of people don't feel that way about pedophiles.

Anways, is looking at CP considered acting on those urges? If so, is it really that big of a problem? CP exists. It's not like they're taking the pictures/videos themselves. Wouldn't looking at CP be better than actually committing the crimes, especially if it keeps one's urges in check?

Talking about pedophilia is difficult, like you said, because it appears as if I approve of these things (which I don't).
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 07:15:06 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 07:17:16 PM »
There's a lot of research suggesting that pedophilia is a genetic condition that some people are born with. One day pedos will be able to pop some pills to make it all go away, or maybe something a bit more drastic than that. Either way, most of these people probably can't help feeling the way they do and shouldn't be persecuted because of it.

That being said, I think there's a big difference between people who have pedophilic urges and people who act on those urges. One is obviously worse than the other.

I wouldn't even put them in the same category. Judging people on what they might do is some Minority Report shit

I agree, but a lot of people don't feel that way about pedophiles.

Anways, is looking at CP considered acting on those urges? If so, is it really that big of a problem? CP exists. It's not like they're taking the pictures/videos themselves. Wouldn't looking at CP be better than actually committing the crimes, especially if it keeps one's urges in check?

Talking about pedophilia is difficult, like you said, because it appears as if I approve of these things (which I don't).

To view CP is to play a small part in encouraging its production by creating demand. If there were no demand, there would be no distributed CP. Of course, viewing isn't nearly as bad as creating, but it isn't exactly a victimless crime.
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Offline Tau

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 07:19:37 PM »
I'd consider it bad mainly in that you're supporting people who create such things. Of course, the difference between supporting a child molester and actually yourself molesting is massive, but it's still wrong. It's the difference between knowingly buying coke from a drug cartel and joining a drug cartel.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 08:55:16 PM »
There's a lot of research suggesting that pedophilia is a genetic condition that some people are born with. One day pedos will be able to pop some pills to make it all go away, or maybe something a bit more drastic than that. Either way, most of these people probably can't help feeling the way they do and shouldn't be persecuted because of it.

That being said, I think there's a big difference between people who have pedophilic urges and people who act on those urges. One is obviously worse than the other.

I wouldn't even put them in the same category. Judging people on what they might do is some Minority Report shit

I agree, but a lot of people don't feel that way about pedophiles.

Anways, is looking at CP considered acting on those urges? If so, is it really that big of a problem? CP exists. It's not like they're taking the pictures/videos themselves. Wouldn't looking at CP be better than actually committing the crimes, especially if it keeps one's urges in check?

Talking about pedophilia is difficult, like you said, because it appears as if I approve of these things (which I don't).

There was actually a debate I read about CGI child porn.  Is it considered child porn if there aren't any real people in it? 
And could that be helpful to those who have the urges but don't want to act on them?

Ghost of V

Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 09:09:09 PM »
There was actually a debate I read about CGI child porn.  Is it considered child porn if there aren't any real people in it? 
And could that be helpful to those who have the urges but don't want to act on them?

I thought of that while I was posting. It's certainly an interesting point. I personally think it's a bit weird, but it's not hurting anyone so I don't see why it would be an issue. I can see some arguing that the images in the animated CP are the problem, but if you're not interested in that sort of thing: don't watch it. There are worse things on the internet.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 09:13:46 PM »
I've wanted to write a short story along these lines for a while, now. It's always so easy to hear the word 'paedophile' and image some sort of clawed monster living in a dark cave who snatches children from their parents, but so many are just very unfortunate people who happen to be attracted to something they can never act on. I've read a few interviews with non-abusing paedophiles and it's always struck me as a terrible affliction.

Quote
There was actually a debate I read about CGI child porn.  Is it considered child porn if there aren't any real people in it?
And could that be helpful to those who have the urges but don't want to act on them?

there are, as I understand it, two schools of thought. One which says that it helps satisfy an urge and is therefore beneficial and another which says that it helps to normalise and desensitise people to it and so they want more and may end up acting on it. I tend to think it's more likely to be the former, because the latter sounds like the same excuse people make about games like GTA turning kids into psychopaths, but I don't know.

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Offline rooster

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 09:23:13 PM »
I've wanted to write a short story along these lines for a while, now. It's always so easy to hear the word 'paedophile' and image some sort of clawed monster living in a dark cave who snatches children from their parents, but so many are just very unfortunate people who happen to be attracted to something they can never act on. I've read a few interviews with non-abusing paedophiles and it's always struck me as a terrible affliction.
I feel the exact same way, but show any sympathy for a non-practicing pedophile and you may as well be one yourself. I wish people understood that it's like being homosexual, these people don't choose to find children sexually appealing. The whole concept breaks my heart. Coming out to get mental help is almost like signing a death warrant.

There was a great AMA for a pedophile who was getting help and everyone was pretty respectful.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 09:28:18 PM »
AMA?

I totally agree, even when considering what direction I wanted to take the story, I knew that I'd have to try to have it published under a pseudonym. When people burn down a pediatrician's house because they're morons who can't read, who wants to come out and say "Paedophiles are people, too?"

Ghost of V

Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 09:40:29 PM »
AMA?


Stands for "Ask me anything". It's a reddit thing were people bare their souls to random people on the internet for attention.

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Offline Снупс

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2014, 12:00:39 AM »
Damn, that was a very tough read...but yeah, I've felt the same about pedophilia for many years now. They have no control over their attraction and viewing them as horrible, monstrous people even when they themselves think the same and are doing everything not to act on their urges is just stupid. People like Adam need all the help they can get, not to be portrayed as criminals.
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Offline Foxbox

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2014, 03:33:14 AM »
Damn, that was a very tough read...but yeah, I've felt the same about pedophilia for many years now. They have no control over their attraction and viewing them as horrible, monstrous people even when they themselves think the same and are doing everything not to act on their urges is just stupid. People like Adam need all the help they can get, not to be portrayed as criminals.

This is how I feel as well. It was tough, but a very good read. I am really glad to see that there are people listening to them and trying to understand it more in order to help them. I feel that it is very important that more therapists can be able to understand the issue better so people can actually seek help. I also think the way people like Adam are treated makes it much harder for them to not only live a normal life, but to also control their urges. It really is heartbreaking.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 03:37:22 AM by Foxbox »

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Offline spoon

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2014, 05:55:06 AM »
I tried to have this very same conversation with a close friend a while back, but we couldn't. He was all "pedophiles are monsters" and I was posing the idea that maybe those tendencies are biological. It really does suck though, especially when getting help is so difficult.

Other social disorders have systems in place to aid, but pedophilia is so far beyond taboo that aid isn't even a considerable option. Sucks.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2014, 08:19:48 PM »
I definitely agree that there should be more sympathy for paedophilia as a condition or illness, but we cannot forget that they are dangerous and should still be in conditions where they cannot do any harm by acting on their urges. 

I am really intrigued by the idea of CGI CP.  It makes a lot of sense to use something like that in concert with therapy to render a paedophile less likely to act on their urges.
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Offline Lord Wilmore

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2014, 10:49:41 AM »
This American Life were actually the first venue to cover this story, so i thought I'd post that here as well:


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/522/tarred-and-feathered


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Offline Tau

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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2014, 09:36:12 PM »
I definitely agree that there should be more sympathy for paedophilia as a condition or illness, but we cannot forget that they are dangerous and should still be in conditions where they cannot do any harm by acting on their urges. 

What do you mean by 'condition'? Chemical castration? Should we also imprison socio/psychopaths before they hurt/kill someone? That's not an argument, it's a question. Should we?
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Re: You're a 16-year-old paedophile. What do you do?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2014, 10:23:35 PM »
They have no control over their attraction
And as long as they keep it to themselves, there isn't a problem. I'd like to screw my friend's wife, but I'm not going to, nor am I even going to think about it. Ok, I have thought about it. :(