if you travel along a line of latitude of some angle above the equator and then the corresponding line south of the equator between two separate and fixed lines of longitude, then on the globe you travel the same distance but on a flat earth the path along the southern line of latitude is necessarily longer. This is verifiable with renaissance era technology, so this experiment can easily be done. Do FE adherents think that navies and coast guards prevent this experiment from being conducted and reported on? Do they think there is some contraction of space that happens outside the ring of the so-called equator if you will that accounts for this? Thanks, not sure how to post the image I drew of my question.


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Offline RazaTD

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2021, 03:24:24 AM »
It’s because the flat earth map is just a projections of the globe onto a plane. Just like any projection of a 3D surface onto a 2D surface, it faces loss of information. In this case the distances are distorted. North of equator is contracted and South of equator is expanded (as far as I understand). The flat earth community has yet to create a map of the Earth.
A rational man

Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2021, 04:24:32 AM »
These are good questions.  I attempted to reconcile these problems in the map below.  You'll notice that I shrunk all latitudes and longitudes below 30d north by 50% and increased latitude and longutudes by 150% above 60d north.  I also increased the distance between 60w to 30w and correspondingly150e to 120e.  This helps to modify and provide more accurate landmasses that we measure today,  identical in the most popular fly over areas.   Greenland, South America, Australia, and China are directly affected by this. 

I drew an exact map to size in another post called "new world map (south centered)".  This one is my best attempt at Photoshop on an android.
Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

Offline Action80

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2021, 02:17:42 PM »
These are good questions.  I attempted to reconcile these problems in the map below.  You'll notice that I shrunk all latitudes and longitudes below 30d north by 50% and increased latitude and longutudes by 150% above 60d north.  I also increased the distance between 60w to 30w and correspondingly150e to 120e.  This helps to modify and provide more accurate landmasses that we measure today,  identical in the most popular fly over areas.   Greenland, South America, Australia, and China are directly affected by this. 

I drew an exact map to size in another post called "new world map (south centered)".  This one is my best attempt at Photoshop on an android.

If your starting point is the 3D Globe Earth map and you are creating a 2D Flat Earth map, you will always face a loss of information. There is no way around it. You can do different projections to take different forms of the loss of information (distortion in distances, shapes, sizes etc) but there will always be a loss of information.
The 3D Globe Earth map is fiction.

All maps are flat.

Period.

When you take something that is flat to begin with and try to make it into a sphere, that is where the idiocy begins.

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Offline Iceman

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2021, 02:44:09 PM »

The 3D Globe Earth map is fiction.

All maps are flat.

Period.

When you take something that is flat to begin with and try to make it into a sphere, that is where the idiocy begins.

Except that maps put onto globes do the best job representing the shape, sizes and proportions of features on the earth...

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Offline JSS

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2021, 03:03:28 PM »
The 3D Globe Earth map is fiction.

All maps are flat.

Period.

This is just objectively false.

I have a globe map of the Earth right here, I'm looking at it now.

It's unmistakably a map, and it's round. Not flat.

You can claim it doesn't represent your reality, but it is very clearly a map.

Offline Action80

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2021, 05:32:39 PM »

The 3D Globe Earth map is fiction.

All maps are flat.

Period.

When you take something that is flat to begin with and try to make it into a sphere, that is where the idiocy begins.

Except that maps put onto globes do the best job representing the shape, sizes and proportions of features on the earth...
That is just silly.

Captain Cook drew an almost exact layout of New Zealand (right down to position) on a perfectly flat map.

Offline Action80

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2021, 05:33:46 PM »
The 3D Globe Earth map is fiction.

All maps are flat.

Period.

This is just objectively false.

I have a globe map of the Earth right here, I'm looking at it now.

It's unmistakably a map, and it's round. Not flat.

You can claim it doesn't represent your reality, but it is very clearly a map.
What you have is a globe, it is not a map.

Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2021, 10:02:38 PM »
Id only add that I'm sure info is lost but info may also be found,  lol.  One mystery I have about this projection is Nasa says it's almost 25,000 miles around the equator.   Projections like these (equidistant azimuthal proj.) Typically shrink the equators distance sometimes by half!  Id enlarge the map proportionally to try and keep acceptable distances intact.   I don't know.

Another cool fact about this map,  is that if you condense all the continents together they fit real well (Pangea).  Then if you unravel the map you can explain the trails of land following Russia and Alaska...
Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

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Offline stack

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2021, 10:12:16 PM »
Id only add that I'm sure info is lost but info may also be found,  lol.  One mystery I have about this projection is Nasa says it's almost 25,000 miles around the equator.   Projections like these (equidistant azimuthal proj.) Typically shrink the equators distance sometimes by half!  Id enlarge the map proportionally to try and keep acceptable distances intact.   I don't know.

Another cool fact about this map,  is that if you condense all the continents together they fit real well (Pangea).  Then if you unravel the map you can explain the trails of land following Russia and Alaska...

Folks calculated the circumference of earth well prior to the existence of NASA.

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Offline RazaTD

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2021, 03:54:40 AM »
These are good questions.  I attempted to reconcile these problems in the map below.  You'll notice that I shrunk all latitudes and longitudes below 30d north by 50% and increased latitude and longutudes by 150% above 60d north.  I also increased the distance between 60w to 30w and correspondingly150e to 120e.  This helps to modify and provide more accurate landmasses that we measure today,  identical in the most popular fly over areas.   Greenland, South America, Australia, and China are directly affected by this. 

I drew an exact map to size in another post called "new world map (south centered)".  This one is my best attempt at Photoshop on an android.

If your starting point is the 3D Globe Earth map and you are creating a 2D Flat Earth map, you will always face a loss of information. There is no way around it. You can do different projections to take different forms of the loss of information (distortion in distances, shapes, sizes etc) but there will always be a loss of information.
The 3D Globe Earth map is fiction.

All maps are flat.

Period.

When you take something that is flat to begin with and try to make it into a sphere, that is where the idiocy begins.

The Flat Earth map is a projection of the 3D Globe map. There are many flaws with this projection as it should be expected because of the loss of information that is incurs. There is a lot wrong with the Flat Earth map as it is presented. A lot of the flight distances and times don’t match up with reality. There is no single South Pole (see my thread about the issue of Southern Celestial pole related to this).

None of these issues happen with the Globe Earth map because it reflects reality without loss of information.
A rational man

Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2021, 05:28:10 AM »
Raza the flight distances do check out on this map.   Stack asked me this question the first time I introduced this map and I confirmed NY to Alaska is 4000 miles on this map as is generally accepted to be the distance.

Regarding the pole stars, I did follow closely the debates everyone had on how there can be two rotating sets of stars on a flat map.   Tom introduced a video showing how a Dome above a flat earth can help part the stars and have them circle in two distinct groups.

Id go further and say that my understanding is that people in the south can observe some stars near them and people in the North can observe a higher set of stars in the sky.   The dome helps magnify these effects.

And keep in mind,  my map is different then the map you talked about in your other thread.   This is a south Antarctic based projection, not a North pole one which is more commonly talked about.

Id go even further and say that the high altitude stars visible in the northern hemisphere are actually located closer to inner earth but the star light actually bends around the dome and gives the illusion of it being behind observers and over the artic circle.  The Milky Way bends around the dome if you've seen time lapse photos of it,  it's a dramatic effect.

This bending also accounts for why people in the North can see polaris from much of the world in winter.   Just like the sun's rays wrap around the dome to give them 24 hour sunlight in summer,  so do the stars (or planets) lights in winter.   Not all night,  as there is no 24 hour darkness in the habitable north (save 1 day maybe)  But admittedly,  there's not too much data on the far reaches of the north anyway to compare data as easily as you guys did for the southern hemisphere.




Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

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Offline stack

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2021, 07:00:48 AM »
Raza the flight distances do check out on this map.   Stack asked me this question the first time I introduced this map and I confirmed NY to Alaska is 4000 miles on this map as is generally accepted to be the distance.

What's the route a flight takes on your map from:

- NYC to Anchrage
- LA to London

Can you draw them on your map?

And why is it Antarctica centered again? You may have mentioned why before, but I have forgotten.

Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2021, 07:29:35 AM »
Stack,  Please see the attached photo.   It's the same flight paths used today, although most trips from NY to Anchorage have one or two stops in between.

Ive made a few posts endorsing this map but here's the link to one Q & A I had with the IceMan.

  "Questions from a glacier guy"
 https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16801.msg218718#msg218718

Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

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Offline stack

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2021, 08:00:12 AM »
Stack,  Please see the attached photo.   It's the same flight paths used today, although most trips from NY to Anchorage have one or two stops in between.

Ive made a few posts endorsing this map but here's the link to one Q & A I had with the IceMan.

  "Questions from a glacier guy"
 https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16801.msg218718#msg218718

Why wouldn't the flight path from LA to London simply be the blue line? Seems like it would be a lot shorter:


Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2021, 11:49:10 AM »
Okay Stack, I got it. It's because the path from LA to London follows exactley along the path of a polar jet stream. This increases the planes speed and presumably makes up for the longer distance.   Theres no significant jet stream if you went in a straight line on my map.  See the attached flight path and stream path.  I mapped them out on my original more accurate map too.

 Admittedly, this flight path is also a straight line and the most direct path on a round 3D earth map from LA to London (see attachment).  So,  I guess It's what you want to believe.   

Here's a fun story on how a jet steam pushed an aircraft past 800mph.  https://www.thetravel.com/jet-stream-propels-record-breaking-l-a-to-london-flight-to-801-mph/amp/
Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

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Offline RazaTD

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2021, 01:05:38 PM »
Raza the flight distances do check out on this map.   Stack asked me this question the first time I introduced this map and I confirmed NY to Alaska is 4000 miles on this map as is generally accepted to be the distance.

Regarding the pole stars, I did follow closely the debates everyone had on how there can be two rotating sets of stars on a flat map.   Tom introduced a video showing how a Dome above a flat earth can help part the stars and have them circle in two distinct groups.

Id go further and say that my understanding is that people in the south can observe some stars near them and people in the North can observe a higher set of stars in the sky.   The dome helps magnify these effects.

And keep in mind,  my map is different then the map you talked about in your other thread.   This is a south Antarctic based projection, not a North pole one which is more commonly talked about.

Id go even further and say that the high altitude stars visible in the northern hemisphere are actually located closer to inner earth but the star light actually bends around the dome and gives the illusion of it being behind observers and over the artic circle.  The Milky Way bends around the dome if you've seen time lapse photos of it,  it's a dramatic effect.

This bending also accounts for why people in the North can see polaris from much of the world in winter.   Just like the sun's rays wrap around the dome to give them 24 hour sunlight in summer,  so do the stars (or planets) lights in winter.   Not all night,  as there is no 24 hour darkness in the habitable north (save 1 day maybe)  But admittedly,  there's not too much data on the far reaches of the north anyway to compare data as easily as you guys did for the southern hemisphere.

How does light bend to give the illusion of a celestial pole? On your map, I’m assuming the center is the South Pole and this has the southern celestial pole but how does the northern celestial pole works?

In the more traditional north centered flat Earth map, in the other thread, Tom tried to explain it away using crepuscular and anti crepuscular rays. That explanation was shaky but even more glaring issue was the ability of people on different continents to look at their own south directions (remember, different places on a flat Earth) and still see the same stars. I remember stack or someone else found a time of year when conditions are dark enough to see stars from Australia, tip of South America, and tip of Africa.

How do you explain that? On the Globe earth, South Pole is a single point. People looking south from all of those three locations are converging at a singular point. Therefore, they can easily see the same set of stars.

This issue was not resolved by the way and Tom has now abandoned that thread presumably because it’s not really recoverable without also bending logic. In a yet another thread about a similar discussion I believe the flat Earth proponents had to change wiki because of this issue.
A rational man

Offline Action80

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2021, 01:32:27 PM »
These are good questions.  I attempted to reconcile these problems in the map below.  You'll notice that I shrunk all latitudes and longitudes below 30d north by 50% and increased latitude and longutudes by 150% above 60d north.  I also increased the distance between 60w to 30w and correspondingly150e to 120e.  This helps to modify and provide more accurate landmasses that we measure today,  identical in the most popular fly over areas.   Greenland, South America, Australia, and China are directly affected by this. 

I drew an exact map to size in another post called "new world map (south centered)".  This one is my best attempt at Photoshop on an android.

If your starting point is the 3D Globe Earth map and you are creating a 2D Flat Earth map, you will always face a loss of information. There is no way around it. You can do different projections to take different forms of the loss of information (distortion in distances, shapes, sizes etc) but there will always be a loss of information.
The 3D Globe Earth map is fiction.

All maps are flat.

Period.

When you take something that is flat to begin with and try to make it into a sphere, that is where the idiocy begins.

The Flat Earth map is a projection of the 3D Globe map. There are many flaws with this projection as it should be expected because of the loss of information that is incurs. There is a lot wrong with the Flat Earth map as it is presented. A lot of the flight distances and times don’t match up with reality. There is no single South Pole (see my thread about the issue of Southern Celestial pole related to this).

None of these issues happen with the Globe Earth map because it reflects reality without loss of information.
There is no single verifiable map of the entire world of any kind, RET or FET.

All maps are flat, however.

There is no such thing as a "Globe" map.

Quit posting false information.

Online SteelyBob

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2021, 04:51:04 PM »
I remember stack or someone else found a time of year when conditions are dark enough to see stars from Australia, tip of South America, and tip of Africa.

That was me. I also made the point that it's a massive problem for FET even if you consider two observers just a short distance apart on the same continent - if they're both looking at the celestial south pole then just a small change in longitude means, on a monopole FE, that they are facing in slightly different directions whilst looking at the same object. There is no credible explanation for that other than being on a spherical planet, which then of course means they aren't facing in different directions - they are just standing on different parts of the sphere looking towards the south pole.

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Offline stack

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Re: Why are lines of latitude longer south of the equator than north?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2021, 05:31:11 PM »
Okay Stack, I got it. It's because the path from LA to London follows exactley along the path of a polar jet stream. This increases the planes speed and presumably makes up for the longer distance.   Theres no significant jet stream if you went in a straight line on my map.  See the attached flight path and stream path.  I mapped them out on my original more accurate map too.

From your jetstream image below, seems like there's one that follows mostly my straight line on your map, it's the most southern one. Why don't they use the majority of that one instead of going way north out of their way to catch the most northern jetstream?

Admittedly, this flight path is also a straight line and the most direct path on a round 3D earth map from LA to London (see attachment).  So,  I guess It's what you want to believe.   

Here's a fun story on how a jet steam pushed an aircraft past 800mph.  https://www.thetravel.com/jet-stream-propels-record-breaking-l-a-to-london-flight-to-801-mph/amp/

Yes, on a globe earth it's referred to as a great circle route. It's about 5500 miles. If I were to transpose the blue straight line flight path I drew on your map on to a google map, it's about 12,000 miles.

So here's the conundrum: On your map, the arced flight path you have is way longer than the straight line path I drew, which is way shorter. (average flight speed from LAX to Heathrow is around 500 mph. But yes, sometimes there are anomalous super highspeed jet streams, but those are the exception)
Airliners could still take advantage of a jetstream for most of the journey along my blue straight line path. On your map, planes should be flying over South America and a portion of Africa because it's way shorter and there is a jetstream to support most of the route.
The fact of the matter is that your map has planes going way north out of their way which, belief or no belief, doesn't make sense.