boteto

Where is the Sun?
« on: September 07, 2020, 04:31:27 PM »
Hi,

I'm new here and a little confused about how the Sun works.  Let's say it's September 20th (the fall equinox) and I'm living in Colombia.  I've got two friends - one in Indonesia and one in Gabon.  At noon in Gabon, my friends and I all look at the sun.  In Gabon, the sun is directly overhead.  In Colombia, the sun is just rising over the horizon, and in indonesia, the sun is just setting on the horizon.  Clearly the sun is somewhere directly overhead of Gabon, but how high up is it?  From indonesia and Colombia it appears as though the sun is right on the horizon.  Even if the sun is really one or two degrees above the horizon, that only puts it at about a couple hundred km above Gabon.  That would mean my friend in Gabon is something like 50 times closer to the sun than I am.  How can this be?

Please someone help me understand what's going on.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2020, 06:00:03 PM »
For clarity, we are talking about Gabon on the Atlantic coast of Africa, aren't we?

From indonesia and Colombia it appears as though the sun is right on the horizon.  Even if the sun is really one or two degrees above the horizon, that only puts it at about a couple hundred km above Gabon.

Perhaps you could outline how you arrived at this figure?

« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 06:02:25 PM by Tumeni »
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2020, 10:12:35 PM »
Hi,

I'm new here and a little confused about how the Sun works.  Let's say it's September 20th (the fall equinox) and I'm living in Colombia.  I've got two friends - one in Indonesia and one in Gabon.  At noon in Gabon, my friends and I all look at the sun.  In Gabon, the sun is directly overhead.  In Colombia, the sun is just rising over the horizon, and in indonesia, the sun is just setting on the horizon.  Clearly the sun is somewhere directly overhead of Gabon, but how high up is it?  From indonesia and Colombia it appears as though the sun is right on the horizon.  Even if the sun is really one or two degrees above the horizon, that only puts it at about a couple hundred km above Gabon.  That would mean my friend in Gabon is something like 50 times closer to the sun than I am.  How can this be?

Please someone help me understand what's going on.

Understand the internet is 100 to 1 ridicule of flat earth belief. Most proofs of flat have been scrubbed. Evil is in control of all media and crazy science.

There's a couple pics of flat in this video and explain exactly what you're seeing when you visualize it.

What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

boteto

Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2020, 04:03:38 AM »
For clarity, we are talking about Gabon on the Atlantic coast of Africa, aren't we?

From indonesia and Colombia it appears as though the sun is right on the horizon.  Even if the sun is really one or two degrees above the horizon, that only puts it at about a couple hundred km above Gabon.

Perhaps you could outline how you arrived at this figure?

Yeah Gabon on the coast of Africa.  I picked those locations because they're almost exactly 6 hours apart in terms of the solar cycle.

I got the figure by using trigonometry: the distance from Colombia to Gabon is about 10,000 km.  If the Sun is above Gabon and appears 1° above the horizon in Colombia then the Sun is 10,000 km * tan(1°) = 174 km.  If you put in 2° you get 349 km.  This means the distance from Gabon to the Sun is roughly 200 km whereas the distance from Colombia to the Sun is 10000 km, which makes Gabon 50x closer.  Since light intensity depends on the square of the distance from the source, this would make the Sun roughly 2500 times brighter at noon than it is in the morning or evening.  Can you help me understand why the Sun doesn't appear to be 2500 times brighter?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2020, 10:32:23 AM »
Can you help me understand why the Sun doesn't appear to be 2500 times brighter?

No, I can't, because I subscribe to the textbook definition of the Sun being 93mill miles away from our globe Earth. Sorry. Maybe one of the residents around here will be along soon.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2020, 02:01:49 AM »
I watched the entire video above and the only thing I agreed with was the depiction of proper attic ventilation.  I could not find anywhere in the FE Wiki what the Sun is made of.  Spectroscopically it is mainly hydrogen and helium.  How is nuclear fusion explained in a FE model, as fusion requires immense pressure and temperature?   The Bible was never meant to be taken literally, it is written as a story.

Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2020, 12:53:58 PM »
Bare with me here: it doesn't matter.  Where the sun is or isn't has no bearing on the shape of the earth.

With that out of the way, much like the seemingly innocuous "what is the true shape of the earth?", your question is not easy to answer, regardless of "model" you are evaluating, here's an example of what I mean :

No one knows how far away the sun is, where it is, or even what it is (who is talking/sharing anyhow)

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Offline JSS

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Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 01:52:42 PM »
No one knows how far away the sun is, where it is, or even what it is (who is talking/sharing anyhow)

We have plenty of evidence for both of these.

For the distance, first you bounce a radar pulse off of Venus, timing it's return value gives you the distance.

Then you measure the angle between Venus and the Sun when the angle is at it's maximum.

Using trig, you can easily calculate the distance to the Sun using those two variables.



We can determine what it's made of using spectrometry and looking at the absorption lines in the Solar radiation.


Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2020, 09:37:09 PM »
We have plenty of evidence for both of these.

Can you believe I was taught the same thing? I was taught LOTS of nonsense...

For the distance, first you bounce a radar pulse off of Venus, timing it's return value gives you the distance.

Yep, that's the story!  And as long as all the other completely unvalidated asumptions (like the radar return is coming from venus and the astronomical conceptions are correct) are accepted as "inerrent truth" then you can swallow crap like this.

We can determine what it's made of using spectrometry

Yeah, that tells us something about the light that reaches us.  It isn't meaningless, it just isn't direct observation of the sun - nor does it tell us what it is composed of or suggest its function.  We can only finerprint identify in this manner with known (terrestrial) patterns - it is highly interpretive, inferential at best, and not at all "proof" of the psuedoscience mythology we are taught as fact from a shamefully tender age.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 10:39:57 PM »
... as long as all the other completely unvalidated asumptions (like the radar return is coming from venus ...

What else would/could it be returning from?

What else is out there to bounce it back?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2020, 10:40:35 PM »
Read up on the Parker Solar probe.   http://parkersolarprobe.jhuapl.edu/The-Mission/index.php    It gives real direct observation of the Sun.

Clearly the American education system is failing, and we are edging toward a situation like the movie "Idiocracy".  No one learns math and science the hard way like we used to, and the internet, while being a great source of information, also perpetuates misinformation. 

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Offline JSS

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Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2020, 10:59:26 PM »
We have plenty of evidence for both of these.

Can you believe I was taught the same thing? I was taught LOTS of nonsense...

For the distance, first you bounce a radar pulse off of Venus, timing it's return value gives you the distance.

Yep, that's the story!  And as long as all the other completely unvalidated asumptions (like the radar return is coming from venus and the astronomical conceptions are correct) are accepted as "inerrent truth" then you can swallow crap like this.

Unvalidated assumptions?  We have landed probes on Venus. If it wasn't exactly were we thought is was, and exactly as large and massive as we calculated then we couldn't have done that.

Multiple countries have sent probes to Venus. The Parker Solar Probe is right now getting closer and closer to the sun, making observations and again, exactly where it should be.

If you think the radar is bouncing off something else, please explain what that is, and why we can put spacecraft into orbit around the planet?

We can determine what it's made of using spectrometry

Yeah, that tells us something about the light that reaches us.  It isn't meaningless, it just isn't direct observation of the sun - nor does it tell us what it is composed of or suggest its function.  We can only finerprint identify in this manner with known (terrestrial) patterns - it is highly interpretive, inferential at best, and not at all "proof" of the psuedoscience mythology we are taught as fact from a shamefully tender age.

Telling us what it contains tells us a lot about it's function, we know hydrogen fuses to helium under great pressure and temperature.  Spectrometry isn't meaningless, it's one piece of evidence that fits in with a million others that tell us what the sun is and how it works. From nuclear fission to quantum mechanics to Relativity and Newtons laws and chemistry and all the disciples of science that study the nature of the universe.

You call it a "psuedoscience mythology" but where do you think cars, airplanes, computers, cell phones, GPS and the rest of the modern world come from?  If science gas got it all wrong, how are we using it to make all those things?

Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2020, 08:59:15 PM »
@macattack

I will check it out.  I expect it to be more unvalidated/unvalidatable fiction like most all space ANYTHING.  Do you have any reason to suspect it is actually real? I have a lot of reason to expect it to be hoax.

You are not paying attention if you think this has something to do with the AMERICAN education system.  It has everything to do with the "education" system - I completely agree. I also see idiocracy as somewhat prophetic, even if it is one of the worst things judge has ever made.

@JSS

"If you think the radar is bouncing off something else, please explain what that is, and why we can put spacecraft into orbit around the planet?"

We can't. It's all fraud and hoax.  However, that isn't to say it is impossible that "orbit" is somewhat real, just not at all like we've been told.  There is, somewhat unequivocally, no "outer space" of any kind in any case. Nequaquam vacuum.

The radar likely bounces off the "ionosphere" / ceiling.  Looking back, I can't believe I fell for the ionosphere - what a crock of absolute bull.

"Telling us what it contains tells us a lot about it's function"

Not really, but even if it did - spectroscopy doesn't tell us what it contains.

"Spectrometry isn't meaningless"

Of course not! Who said that?

"it's one piece of evidence that fits in with a million others that tell us what the sun is and how it works"

Nonsense, it is the major piece of "evidence" and there is no great tapestry composed of other observations.  Whenever anyone says "there's so much evidence - millions" you can be well assured it's bs.  The solar "theories" (most all of astronomy, and other paper-mache "theories" like evolution) are intended to present a unified/consistent facade, but that's all it is.  Behind it, is mythology and speculation presented erroneously as "scientific" fact from childhood.

"From nuclear fission to quantum mechanics to Relativity and Newtons laws and chemistry and all the disciples of science that study the nature of the universe."

You might be surprised how much of that list is non-real / misunderstood / incorrect.  The myth of scientism is grand.

"If science gas got it all wrong, how are we using it to make all those things?"

Please don't misunderstand. I love science. I always have, and have a lot of knowledge about its history as well.  I have loved philosophy since I was a child.  Science is great, and leads to actionable knowledge to, ideally, the benefit of all mankind.  Pseudoscience doesn't do that, and there is a tremendous amount of religion/mythology masquerading as science today, and that makes me very sad (and angry).  You can discern the difference, but you have to learn how first! It is all a failure of education, and the secular religion of scientism. 

« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 09:05:27 PM by jack44556677 »

Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:04:41 AM »
@jack44556677 :You may "love science", but obviously don't understand a single thing about it.  Everything we do is derived from math.  Maxwell, Tesla, Bohr, Einstein, etc.   Luckily there are plenty of people in the country to carry the dead weight of others who don't understand such things. Do you question the training of doctors to perform very sophisticated surgery?  What about nuclear energy, is that fake?   Pretty sure we can clone a human if it wasn't banned.   We don't call it global warming for nothing.    Frankly reaching outerspace is hardly mans's greatest accomplishment.  Yes it is validated, do you even understand what that means in science. Pretty sure Nasa engineers would have the telemetry of their signals coming in from the deep space network.  Take a science class/lab and math class and learn something.  Americans as a whole are falling behind other countries, look it up on a computer, which was developed by people much smarter than me or you.   I'm not a computer engineer.  What a complete waste of time it is for people to "believe" the earth is flat.  They could be doing something productive.  I think FE is all a big hoax and money grab for those near the top, just like a cult. 

Re: Where is the Sun?
« Reply #14 on: Today at 05:34:43 AM »
What if the sun is actually a giant balloon with a light in it. If the government says they sent these so called rockets into the air, who is to say they didn't also send up a balloon? If Our Lord came down and smited some lads because He knows all, and they did not believe in His teachings, who is to say anyone is right?







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