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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #380 on: July 22, 2020, 03:49:19 PM »
I am unsure how you equate the word "be protected," with "beating with batons."

There are numerous examples of police and other federal troops beating peaceful protesters with batons. I am not "equating" this with protecting their 1A rights, I am suggesting that this behaviour is in direct contradiction of such rights.

The most-covered recent example is the Navy Veteran who stood stock still, and took multiple baton blows from an (out-of-control) militia man until the double dose of pepper spray became too much for him. There's loads more examples to be found. He's not commiting any offence apart from standing there, and he's the focus of malicious beating simply for the sake of it. They're not trying to detain him, charge him with anything, they're just beating on him for sport.

cnn.it/3ju7FEQ
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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #381 on: July 22, 2020, 03:59:28 PM »
I am unsure how you equate the word "be protected," with "beating with batons."

There are numerous examples of police and other federal troops beating peaceful protesters with batons. I am not "equating" this with protecting their 1A rights, I am suggesting that this behaviour is in direct contradiction of such rights.
And I would too if this is what is actually happening.
The most-covered recent example is the Navy Veteran who stood stock still, and took multiple baton blows from an (out-of-control) militia man until the double dose of pepper spray became too much for him. There's loads more examples to be found. He's not commiting any offence apart from standing there, and he's the focus of malicious beating simply for the sake of it. They're not trying to detain him, charge him with anything, they're just beating on him for sport.

cnn.it/3ju7FEQ
Yeah, read the article and then try to make sense out of the complete telling of events.

There can be no slant to the reporting of this story at all! [/sarcasm]

That is an absolutely hilarious article!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 11:12:56 AM by totallackey »

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #382 on: July 22, 2020, 04:08:29 PM »
Right, In favor of less government/federal intervention in the lives of law abiding Americans, but think it's fine that a guy was pinned to the ground for dancing since dancing is so suspicious and we must be protected against people dancing.

Ok.
The guy wasn't pinned down for dancing in the street.

We went over that already.
What was he pinned down for then? Because as it happens they didn't have reason to do so and they're now receiving training after being placed on administrative leave and being investigated for their actions. Almost like they weren't trained well enough for the situation. It's a pretty clear cut case, he was detained for no real reason. the officers escalated a non-situation for no reason and for what? Because they had someone call the police about him dancing. Seems pretty clear cut to me, the officers were so far in the wrong that actions were taken against them. Strange that. Not sure why you're still defending officers for doing something stupid and clearly wrong. while claiming you think there should be less of that.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #383 on: July 22, 2020, 06:34:28 PM »
Yeah, read the article and then try to make sense out the complete telling of events.
There can be no slant to the reporting of this story at all! [/sarcasm]
That is an absolutely hilarious article!

I've seen it from two different angles, and it's a clear sequence of events; he stands there; one militia man pushes him; this has no effect, so militia man takes his baton IN BOTH HANDS and delivers around half a dozen blows, which have little to no effect, and another militian man taps baton man on the shoulder to stop, at which point tap man and one another blast two loads of pepper spray at the vet's face at point-blank range, and he has to turn away.

I have no difficulty making sense of it. Why do you find it hilarious?

Why are you trying to distract from the clear use of excessive force without probable cause, i.e. infringement of 1A rights?
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totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #384 on: July 23, 2020, 10:33:36 AM »
Right, In favor of less government/federal intervention in the lives of law abiding Americans, but think it's fine that a guy was pinned to the ground for dancing since dancing is so suspicious and we must be protected against people dancing.

Ok.
The guy wasn't pinned down for dancing in the street.

We went over that already.
What was he pinned down for then? Because as it happens they didn't have reason to do so and they're now receiving training after being placed on administrative leave and being investigated for their actions. Almost like they weren't trained well enough for the situation. It's a pretty clear cut case, he was detained for no real reason. the officers escalated a non-situation for no reason and for what? Because they had someone call the police about him dancing. Seems pretty clear cut to me, the officers were so far in the wrong that actions were taken against them. Strange that. Not sure why you're still defending officers for doing something stupid and clearly wrong. while claiming you think there should be less of that.
I am not going to repeat myself as I already wrote those reasons earlier.

Feel free to go review the, as can everyone else.

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #385 on: July 23, 2020, 10:38:31 AM »
Yeah, read the article and then try to make sense out the complete telling of events.
There can be no slant to the reporting of this story at all! [/sarcasm]
That is an absolutely hilarious article!

I've seen it from two different angles, and it's a clear sequence of events; he stands there; one militia man pushes him; this has no effect, so militia man takes his baton IN BOTH HANDS and delivers around half a dozen blows, which have little to no effect, and another militian man taps baton man on the shoulder to stop, at which point tap man and one another blast two loads of pepper spray at the vet's face at point-blank range, and he has to turn away.

I have no difficulty making sense of it. Why do you find it hilarious?

Why are you trying to distract from the clear use of excessive force without probable cause, i.e. infringement of 1A rights?
You have seen the video which picks up events when the people pushing a specific narrative, which is truly contrary to actual support of free speech, peaceful protests, and free assembly.

Even your description "one militia man pushes him; this has no effect," is ridiculous and false.

The article I read from the NY Times states the supposedly "peaceful protesters," were engaged in removing lawfully erected barricades.

That is not peaceful protesters.

The Navy veteran was there and actually should have tried to stop the "peaceful protesters,' or at least moved away from the scene.

Wouldn't surprise me if he was actually aiding and abetting.

He certainly looks like he simply asked them a question.

Total lie from this shitbag calling himself a Navy veteran.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 11:15:24 AM by totallackey »

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #386 on: July 31, 2020, 09:07:14 AM »
You have seen the video (T - I've seen two, actually - I thought that was made clear above) which picks up events when the people pushing a specific narrative, which is truly contrary to actual support of free speech, peaceful protests, and free assembly.

Sorry, but this is ungrammatical gibberish

Even your description "one militia man pushes him; this has no effect," is ridiculous and false.

Clear from one or both videos. Vet standing still, short-arse camo guy pushes him, which fails to move him back to any significant degree. That's "no effect")

The article I read from the NY Times states the supposedly "peaceful protesters," were engaged in removing lawfully erected barricades.

So what? The vet was not involved in this. Besides which, you're taking issue with my two videos of the actual interaction, but citing WHAT YOU READ from the NYT ...?)

That is not peaceful protesters.

Again, so what?

The Navy veteran was there and actually should have tried to stop the "peaceful protesters,' or at least moved away from the scene.  Wouldn't surprise me if he was actually aiding and abetting.

So you have no evidence that he was aiding and abetting, and all you can do is suppose that he did ...)

Total lie from this shitbag calling himself a Navy veteran.

Would love to witness the scene where you tell him this to his face...
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #387 on: July 31, 2020, 09:10:53 AM »
In other news;

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/29/us/nevada-douglas-county-library-sheriff-trnd/index.html

Librarians express support of BLM.

Sheriff responds by appearing to claim he and his officers will henceforth not respond to any 911 call from the library, appearing to selectively choose which citizens he and they serve according to whether or not he or they agree with their views.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #388 on: July 31, 2020, 09:27:14 AM »
Police and/or Feds in Portland have been seen to launch tear-gas canisters not along the ground, but almost vertically, so that they take a ballistic trajectory, and land in the groups of protesters from above. Given the size, material and weight of these canisters, they could cause considerable harm to those below, should they hit them from above.

There is no reason to do this, other than spite, malice, and the wish to actually cause harm to the protesters.

The American taxpayer is not paying police or Feds to exact harm upon their citizens for no reason other than spite and malice.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #389 on: July 31, 2020, 11:24:14 PM »
Last night in Portland, control ceded to local police, Feds went away, and - Hey, Presto! - a night of reasonably peaceful protests.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #390 on: August 02, 2020, 07:37:15 AM »
NYPD tramples protesters, the constitution, legal statutes, and their own rule book ...

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/video-police-abuses-nypd-trampling-constitution-reveal-inefficacy-reform-ncna1235333

"Earlier in July, The New York Times released its analysis of dozens of brutal videos depicting NYPD’s policing in the first 10 days of recent protests. As public defenders and attorneys specializing in criminal and civil law, The Times asked us and others, like the NYPD, which declined, to review this video and assess the NYPD’s behavior against department guidelines, civil rights protections of the U.S. Constitution and criminal legal statutes.

What we found was highly disturbing, but likely obvious to even the casual observer. Officers used banned chokeholds, violence and abuse that the NYPD has explicitly prohibited. Officers used cars, chemicals, bicycles and batons as weapons, all against protocol. They engaged in widespread excessive force and civil rights violations. They repeatedly committed conduct that, if perpetrated by anyone but police, would lead to prosecutions for violent felonies that carry serious prison time.

And as the nation has witnessed this week, the brazen violence against protestors during those first 10 days was not an aberration."

"In every encounter we analyzed, officers violated at least two specific prohibitions laid out in the Patrol Guide. The most common violations we saw were refusals to provide names and badge numbers, excessive force, unlawful arrests, improper use of pepper spray, failure to provide medical care, accosting clearly identified legal observers, and punishing protestors for speech, including with chokeholds. Taken together, we can only conclude that officers feel free to violate the NYPD’s stated mission, vision and values."

"In incident after incident, we saw officers using force without any provocation or justification and needlessly escalating encounters, predictably causing more violence."

"In over half the videos we reviewed, we saw clear-cut evidence of conduct that would surely invite violent felony charges if the perpetrators hadn’t been wearing badges. This included numerous instances of assault in the second degree, a class D violent felony punishable by up to seven years in prison; of robbery or forcible theft of bicycles and backpacks, a class C violent felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison; of rioting in the first degree for repeatedly “engaging in tumultuous and violent conduct” that caused or created "a grave risk of causing public alarm,” criminal use of a chemical weapon, and even attempted murder — one count for each protester in the path of the officers who drove their cars into crowds. "


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totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #391 on: August 03, 2020, 11:12:51 AM »
You have seen the video (T - I've seen two, actually - I thought that was made clear above) which picks up events when the people pushing a specific narrative, which is truly contrary to actual support of free speech, peaceful protests, and free assembly.

Sorry, but this is ungrammatical gibberish
Okay. Let me rephrase it.

Whatever video you have seen picks events after the the "peaceful protestors," removed lawfully erected barricades.

That is not an act of peace, nor is it an exercise of any First Amendment right.
Even your description "one militia man pushes him; this has no effect," is ridiculous and false.

Clear from one or both videos. Vet standing still, short-arse camo guy pushes him, which fails to move him back to any significant degree. That's "no effect")
The guy moves.

Some effect.
The article I read from the NY Times states the supposedly "peaceful protesters," were engaged in removing lawfully erected barricades.

So what? The vet was not involved in this. Besides which, you're taking issue with my two videos of the actual interaction, but citing WHAT YOU READ from the NYT ...?)
Yep.

The NYT states the "peaceful protestors," unlawfully removed lawfully erected barricades.

Not peaceful, not lawful.

It doesn't matter whether or not the vet was one of them who did it or not.

He presented himself as being on the side of those who did do it.
That is not peaceful protesters.

Again, so what?
LOL!!!

Yeah, so what you write...After trying to state it was peaceful protestors as the ones getting beat.

If you are taking up sides with people who have committed unlawful acts, you are not a peaceful protestor.
The Navy veteran was there and actually should have tried to stop the "peaceful protesters,' or at least moved away from the scene.  Wouldn't surprise me if he was actually aiding and abetting.

So you have no evidence that he was aiding and abetting, and all you can do is suppose that he did ...)
No, the evidence is he was there getting beaten and pepper sprayed.
Total lie from this shitbag calling himself a Navy veteran.

Would love to witness the scene where you tell him this to his face...
I am sure you would.

Maybe someday.

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #392 on: August 03, 2020, 11:15:12 AM »
In other news;

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/29/us/nevada-douglas-county-library-sheriff-trnd/index.html

Librarians express support of BLM.

Sheriff responds by appearing to claim he and his officers will henceforth not respond to any 911 call from the library, appearing to selectively choose which citizens he and they serve according to whether or not he or they agree with their views.
Hey, the librarians can call their nearest BLM rep and I am sure they will respond immediately!

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #393 on: August 03, 2020, 01:33:32 PM »
In other news;

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/29/us/nevada-douglas-county-library-sheriff-trnd/index.html

Librarians express support of BLM.

Sheriff responds by appearing to claim he and his officers will henceforth not respond to any 911 call from the library, appearing to selectively choose which citizens he and they serve according to whether or not he or they agree with their views.
Hey, the librarians can call their nearest BLM rep and I am sure they will respond immediately!

It’s crazy that you think it’s fine that law enforcement pick and choose when to do their job based on political affiliation.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #394 on: August 03, 2020, 04:17:45 PM »
(Tumeni said - "Would love to witness the scene where you tell him this to his face...")

I am sure you would. Maybe someday.

He's on Twitter. Log on there and tell him all that you think about him, then we can all watch.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #395 on: August 04, 2020, 09:54:08 PM »
Click for bigger.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 10:07:03 PM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #396 on: August 04, 2020, 11:04:25 PM »
You’ll do anything to keep your framework intact, won’t you?

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #397 on: August 04, 2020, 11:10:34 PM »
Click for bigger.

<image from above>

OK - you're right. Murdering George Floyd was completely justified. While we're at it, why don't we go ahead and eliminate all the scum in the world. Fuck everyone who doesn't walk your straight line and bow down to the man.
"noche te ipsum"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #398 on: August 05, 2020, 12:28:26 AM »
I don't see a police killing. Floyd is saying that he is not able to breathe long before he is pinned to the ground.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 12:34:40 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #399 on: August 05, 2020, 12:38:24 AM »
I don't see a police killing. Floyd is saying that he is not able to breathe long before he is pinned to the ground.



So let’s call it gross negligence causing death and maybe you will go away?