[J-Man]

I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/

[somerled]

Am getting fed up o' this . First I had to cancel my holiday to the moon which we were told the resort would be open by the 80's . Then the holiday hotel orbiting the earth project fizzled out.

Was all geared up to fly against the earths spin to reach Australia from London in 3hrs with Rich Branson. Now this . Very disappointing but not unexpected .

[iamcpc]

I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/

I get the lies but I don't get the ties to space exploration to Satan. The path to heaven is through the blood of Christ. Not through the belief that we didn't go to outer space. The bible does not say ANYTHING about not believing in outer space exploration or travel.

[AATW]

Was all geared up to fly against the earths spin to reach Australia from London in 3hrs with Rich Branson.

Do you think the fact that hyper-sonic commercial air travel has not become a reality means that air-planes don't exist?

[Pete Svarrior]

Do you think the fact that hyper-sonic commercial air travel has not become a reality means that air-planes don't exist?

Why would you mix up aeroplanes and spaceplanes like that? It sounds like you're setting up a strawman.

[AATW]

Do you think the fact that hyper-sonic commercial air travel has not become a reality means that air-planes don't exist?

Why would you mix up aeroplanes and spaceplanes like that? It sounds like you're setting up a strawman.

I don't think I am.

My point is for years there has been talk of planes (air planes, not space planes) whizzing us round the, ahem, globe at very high speeds.
Hasn't happened. Just like moon-bases or space hotels haven't happened. Just like cold fusion hasn't happened - when I was a kid that was thought to be the future solution to the world's energy demands and the by-product was apparently water.

None of these technologies have emerged. I'm sure there are many other examples of people predicting future technologies which never happened.
Airline technology has evolved in different ways - the level of comfort, the entertainment systems - but speed isn't one of them.
Space technology has moved on a bit but the focus has changed, we have the ISS and a load of satellites which give us things like GPS. Hopefully private enterprises will drive more innovation.
Fusion research is ongoing but I don't believe they have found a way of making it happen without putting more energy in than we get out.

One line of attack for conspiracy theorists (not just FE, but people who deny the Apollo landings although the two are linked) is this sort of logic.
"They said we were going to have space hotels, that hasn't happened, that is evidence for the whole thing being fake".
This is faulty logic. Just like I shouldn't use the lack of hyper-sonic commercial air travel as a smoking gun that the airline industry is fake.
Some problems just proved harder to solve than others. Or there wasn't the budget/will to make them happen - wars are often a big motivation for innovation, computers and rockets pretty much came out of WWII.
It really is as simple as that.

Now, obviously it's a bit easier to hop on a plane than a rocket and verify for yourself that air-planes exist but you can go and see a rocket launch if you happen to be in the right place at the right time. As I've said a few times, I saw a Shuttle launch back in the day.

The general point I'm making is the whole tone of somerled's post is a sarcastic implication that because space/air travel hasn't developed as some people predicted, that is in some way evidence that the whole thing is fake. It is not. It's just evidence that predicting the future is difficult.

[Pete Svarrior]

My point is for years there has been talk of planes (air planes, not space planes) whizzing us round the, ahem, globe at very high speeds.

But that's not what Richard Branson was promising. Seems like a big reach to go from "Branson lied about how spaceplanes are gonna be whooshing us around Real Soon Now™" to "aeroplanes don't exist".

I'm sure there are many other examples of people predicting future technologies which never happened.

It's one thing to get excited about speculations for future technologies, and another thing entirely to advertise a product that will be available soon.

"They said we were going to have space hotels, that hasn't happened, that is evidence for the whole thing being fake".
This is faulty logic. Just like I shouldn't use the lack of hyper-sonic commercial air travel as a smoking gun that the airline industry is fake.

I disagree. You seem to believe that a claim of "Everyone who promised <x> lied, so <x> might not be feasible" is the same statement as "Everyone who promised improvements to <y> has lied, therefore <y> magically ceases to exist, despite plainly being out there"

What you're trying to do here is take a statement that's weak, but not completely insane, and turn it into a completely insane statement. It's strange.

[AATW]

OK, fine. Maybe I am somewhat misrepresenting him.
BUT the 'x' in your example is "space hotels" or "passenger trips into space" or "moon bases".
Maybe those things aren't possible or, at best, predictions of them have been wildly optimistic in terms of timelines.
I don't know if Branson is "lying". I mean, Virgin Galactic is a thing and Branson is still working on it:

https://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-continues-work-on-fleet-of-spaceshiptwo-vehicles/

Whether it'll actually happen. Well, we'll see. But it still won't be for "the masses", it'll be prohibitively expensive for most of us. The implication I get from this sort of thread is the idea that "space travel for all" hasn't happened in some ways provides evidence that space travel isn't a thing at all. That is erroneous logic.

[Pete Svarrior]

I don't know if Branson is "lying".

Sure, I'll concede that.

The implication I get from this sort of thread is the idea that "space travel for all" hasn't happened in some ways provides evidence that space travel isn't a thing at all. That is erroneous logic.

I think the truth is somewhere in-between the two stances. We've got RE'ers (and we've had them coming for literal decades) telling us that we'll get OMGWTFBBQPWNED any moment now because everyone's dog will be flying to the moon to do its business, and it'll be cheap, and it'll be accessible, and Mexico will pay for it. The response of many FE'ers is to (often aggressively) point out that it hasn't happened last time we were promised it, and that it seems to still not be happening. It does not strictly mean that it'll never happen, but it does inspire some skepticism.

In some ways, it's a case of the boy who cried "wolf": we've been promised magical space tourism so many times that we've gotten quite jaded about it.

[J-Man]

I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/

I get the lies but I don't get the ties to space exploration to Satan. The path to heaven is through the blood of Christ. Not through the belief that we didn't go to outer space. The bible does not say ANYTHING about not believing in outer space exploration or travel.

Please this just shows your ignorance of Gods love. 

Psalm 115:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Job 1:7 ESV /
The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Luke 10:18 ESV /
And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


Job 38:4   

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,


Psalm 104:5   

He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever.

Blessing awaits you !!!

[TomInAustin]

I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/

I get the lies but I don't get the ties to space exploration to Satan. The path to heaven is through the blood of Christ. Not through the belief that we didn't go to outer space. The bible does not say ANYTHING about not believing in outer space exploration or travel.

Please this just shows your ignorance of Gods love. 

Psalm 115:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Job 1:7 ESV /
The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Luke 10:18 ESV /
And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


Job 38:4   

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,


Psalm 104:5   

He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever.

Blessing awaits you !!!

Anytime you quote a book of myths you automatically lose an argument.

Thanks for playing

[ChrisTP]

I think the truth is somewhere in-between the two stances. We've got RE'ers (and we've had them coming for literal decades) telling us that we'll get OMGWTFBBQPWNED any moment now because everyone's dog will be flying to the moon to do its business, and it'll be cheap, and it'll be accessible, and Mexico will pay for it. The response of many FE'ers is to (often aggressively) point out that it hasn't happened last time we were promised it, and that it seems to still not be happening. It does not strictly mean that it'll never happen, but it does inspire some skepticism.

In some ways, it's a case of the boy who cried "wolf": we've been promised magical space tourism so many times that we've gotten quite jaded about it.

I can understand the skepticism although projects of all kinds have deadlines that are pushed back all the time (just look at star citizen). It's disappointing for sure but one day it will happen, there have already been space tourists so in a way it's already happening. It's just getting space tourism to a point where it's cheap and safe enough for the middle/upper class people to be able to afford it. It may in our lifetimes be a once in a lifetime opportunity if it costs the price of a small house.

I too get frustrated with setbacks for space exploration. I was excited about Mars One, only for it to become defunct last year. SpaceX are doing pretty neat stuff (hell if I were the rich CEO I'd send a car in space for lawls too). I don't follow Virgin Galactic as much but it seems they are focusing on the tourism side of things more than anything.

[AATW]

I think we're all frustrated with the lack of progress in this area.
I mean, who wouldn't want to go into space? Space! How cool would that be?! The moon even moreso.
But space tourism is already a thing - 7 people have paid to spend time on the ISS

https://didyouknow.org/lists/spacetourists/

The issue is it's prohibitively expensive, as will Virgin Galactic be if it ever gets off the ground both literally and figuratively.
It seems to be making it cheap which is proving difficult - it's the same reason Concorde was the only supersonic commercial plane. Yes, it's cool to zip across the Atlantic in just over 3 hours rather than 7 but are you going to pay 10 times as much for that? If you're rich enough that money is no object then maybe, 'cos you can. But it wasn't within the reach of most people.

Given how many people have been to space, the fact that the ISS is demonstrably up there - you can literally see it from the ground - and we have technologies like GPS, satellite TV and satellite phones which demonstrably work, it's a pretty big leap from "space tourism hasn't happened, or not in the way people keep promising" to seeing that as a smoking gun of the whole space industry being faked.

[Pete Svarrior]

But space tourism is already a thing - 7 people have paid to spend time on the ISS

Allegedly. Unfortunately, [multi-]billionaires tend not to be the most trustworthy of sources.

[ChrisTP]

Apparently £30 million was enough for a game developer to go to space so maybe exaggerating just a tad by saying  [multi-]billionaires. Also a tad unfair to make harsh assumptions of those people as being untrustworthy just for having money. Any every day loser can win the lottery and go to space it seems (assuming they're fit and healthy enough).

[Pete Svarrior]

maybe exaggerating just a tad by saying  [multi-]billionaires.

It's really not, considering the specific people AATW has listed.

Also a tad unfair to make harsh assumptions of those people as being untrustworthy just for having money.

Look, I'm not saying it's strictly impossible to be a billionaire and an honest, trustworthy individual. I'm just saying that their track record doesn't make them look that trustworthy as a demographic. Once an honest billionaire graces our Flat Earth with his or her presence, I'll happily withdraw from this position. Until then, eat the rich, no war but class war, etc.

Any every day loser can win the lottery and go to space

Oh, great, so you're saying our chances of accomplishing it (if it actually is a thing) are functionally zero, to the point where any expert would advise you against trying and describe it as an "idiot tax". Thanks for nothing.

[ChrisTP]

Oh, great, so you're saying our chances of accomplishing it (if it actually is a thing) are functionally zero, to the point where any expert would advise you against trying and describe it as an "idiot tax". Thanks for nothing.

No, although the chances currently are obviously small I was just saying for now that it could happen to anyone, even you or in other words, it doesn't have to be rich untrustworthy people, hell the next space tourist could well be someone in your family. You'd have to be lucky but you could in the next few years find yourself in space. In a decade or two though, I do think that likelihood will go up when/if space travel can become cheaper and more routine.

TLDR; for now very few regular, every day people are space tourists, but in the future I believe that number will skyrocket. Pun unintended.

[Pete Svarrior]

it doesn't have to be rich untrustworthy people, hell the next space tourist could well be someone in your family

That's great. Hypothetically, someone might (maybe) one day do it, perhaps. Just fantastic.

Can you stop wasting our time already?

[ChrisTP]

it doesn't have to be rich untrustworthy people, hell the next space tourist could well be someone in your family

That's great. Hypothetically, someone might (maybe) one day do it, perhaps. Just fantastic.

Can you stop wasting our time already?

That was a hypothetical example. Officially it's already happened and I can't really do anything about your lack of believe that it has, nor can I do anything about your prejudice toward people richer than you.

I'm just saying space tourism has begun but with all new things, it's a premium experience. I for one, don't own the new £50k Mac computer nor have I seen one in person but I don't doubt some rich people do have them.

[Pete Svarrior]

I can't really do anything about your lack of believe that it has

Then why are you still posting here? That's the subject of the thread. If you have nothing to say on it, move on.

nor can I do anything about your prejudice toward people richer than you.

No prejudice here, friend. As I said, it's perfectly possible for an honest billionaire to exist. It's just that one hasn't come to be yet (or there is no evidence of one existing or having existed - it's kind of like atheism, you see). If you mistake a simple analysis of the facts for prejudice, then perhaps you have to, once again, review your opinion of yourself as motivated purely by facts and not emotions.

I for one, don't own the new £50k Mac computer

Congratulations, you didn't get scammed (though your phrasing implies you might own some Mac computers, so maybe you did get scammed, but only a little bit). I don't see how that helps here, though. Now, if the new £50k Mac was coming out in 1980 1990 2000 2020 uhh real soon now and claimed to offer quantum computing and Blast Processing to the home user, I would be sceptical, and I wouldn't accept the claim that a university managed to add two numbers together with a prototype quantum computer as particularly relevant evidence.