The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Community => Topic started by: J-Man on January 10, 2020, 06:43:03 PM

Title: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: J-Man on January 10, 2020, 06:43:03 PM
I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: somerled on January 11, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Am getting fed up o' this . First I had to cancel my holiday to the moon which we were told the resort would be open by the 80's . Then the holiday hotel orbiting the earth project fizzled out.

Was all geared up to fly against the earths spin to reach Australia from London in 3hrs with Rich Branson. Now this . Very disappointing but not unexpected .
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: iamcpc on January 15, 2020, 06:07:11 PM
I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/

I get the lies but I don't get the ties to space exploration to Satan. The path to heaven is through the blood of Christ. Not through the belief that we didn't go to outer space. The bible does not say ANYTHING about not believing in outer space exploration or travel.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 15, 2020, 11:49:29 PM
Was all geared up to fly against the earths spin to reach Australia from London in 3hrs with Rich Branson.
Do you think the fact that hyper-sonic commercial air travel has not become a reality means that air-planes don't exist?
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 16, 2020, 08:03:35 AM
Do you think the fact that hyper-sonic commercial air travel has not become a reality means that air-planes don't exist?
Why would you mix up aeroplanes and spaceplanes like that? It sounds like you're setting up a strawman.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 16, 2020, 10:16:51 AM
Do you think the fact that hyper-sonic commercial air travel has not become a reality means that air-planes don't exist?
Why would you mix up aeroplanes and spaceplanes like that? It sounds like you're setting up a strawman.
I don't think I am.

My point is for years there has been talk of planes (air planes, not space planes) whizzing us round the, ahem, globe at very high speeds.
Hasn't happened. Just like moon-bases or space hotels haven't happened. Just like cold fusion hasn't happened - when I was a kid that was thought to be the future solution to the world's energy demands and the by-product was apparently water.

None of these technologies have emerged. I'm sure there are many other examples of people predicting future technologies which never happened.
Airline technology has evolved in different ways - the level of comfort, the entertainment systems - but speed isn't one of them.
Space technology has moved on a bit but the focus has changed, we have the ISS and a load of satellites which give us things like GPS. Hopefully private enterprises will drive more innovation.
Fusion research is ongoing but I don't believe they have found a way of making it happen without putting more energy in than we get out.

One line of attack for conspiracy theorists (not just FE, but people who deny the Apollo landings although the two are linked) is this sort of logic.
"They said we were going to have space hotels, that hasn't happened, that is evidence for the whole thing being fake".
This is faulty logic. Just like I shouldn't use the lack of hyper-sonic commercial air travel as a smoking gun that the airline industry is fake.
Some problems just proved harder to solve than others. Or there wasn't the budget/will to make them happen - wars are often a big motivation for innovation, computers and rockets pretty much came out of WWII.
It really is as simple as that.

Now, obviously it's a bit easier to hop on a plane than a rocket and verify for yourself that air-planes exist but you can go and see a rocket launch if you happen to be in the right place at the right time. As I've said a few times, I saw a Shuttle launch back in the day.

The general point I'm making is the whole tone of somerled's post is a sarcastic implication that because space/air travel hasn't developed as some people predicted, that is in some way evidence that the whole thing is fake. It is not. It's just evidence that predicting the future is difficult.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 16, 2020, 10:26:19 AM
My point is for years there has been talk of planes (air planes, not space planes) whizzing us round the, ahem, globe at very high speeds.
But that's not what Richard Branson was promising. Seems like a big reach to go from "Branson lied about how spaceplanes are gonna be whooshing us around Real Soon Now™" to "aeroplanes don't exist".

I'm sure there are many other examples of people predicting future technologies which never happened.
It's one thing to get excited about speculations for future technologies, and another thing entirely to advertise a product that will be available soon.

"They said we were going to have space hotels, that hasn't happened, that is evidence for the whole thing being fake".
This is faulty logic. Just like I shouldn't use the lack of hyper-sonic commercial air travel as a smoking gun that the airline industry is fake.
I disagree. You seem to believe that a claim of "Everyone who promised <x> lied, so <x> might not be feasible" is the same statement as "Everyone who promised improvements to <y> has lied, therefore <y> magically ceases to exist, despite plainly being out there"

What you're trying to do here is take a statement that's weak, but not completely insane, and turn it into a completely insane statement. It's strange.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 16, 2020, 01:14:33 PM
OK, fine. Maybe I am somewhat misrepresenting him.
BUT the 'x' in your example is "space hotels" or "passenger trips into space" or "moon bases".
Maybe those things aren't possible or, at best, predictions of them have been wildly optimistic in terms of timelines.
I don't know if Branson is "lying". I mean, Virgin Galactic is a thing and Branson is still working on it:

https://spacenews.com/virgin-galactic-continues-work-on-fleet-of-spaceshiptwo-vehicles/

Whether it'll actually happen. Well, we'll see. But it still won't be for "the masses", it'll be prohibitively expensive for most of us. The implication I get from this sort of thread is the idea that "space travel for all" hasn't happened in some ways provides evidence that space travel isn't a thing at all. That is erroneous logic.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 16, 2020, 01:32:50 PM
I don't know if Branson is "lying".
Sure, I'll concede that.

The implication I get from this sort of thread is the idea that "space travel for all" hasn't happened in some ways provides evidence that space travel isn't a thing at all. That is erroneous logic.
I think the truth is somewhere in-between the two stances. We've got RE'ers (and we've had them coming for literal decades) telling us that we'll get OMGWTFBBQPWNED any moment now because everyone's dog will be flying to the moon to do its business, and it'll be cheap, and it'll be accessible, and Mexico will pay for it. The response of many FE'ers is to (often aggressively) point out that it hasn't happened last time we were promised it, and that it seems to still not be happening. It does not strictly mean that it'll never happen, but it does inspire some skepticism.

In some ways, it's a case of the boy who cried "wolf": we've been promised magical space tourism so many times that we've gotten quite jaded about it.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: J-Man on January 16, 2020, 04:18:25 PM
I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/



I get the lies but I don't get the ties to space exploration to Satan. The path to heaven is through the blood of Christ. Not through the belief that we didn't go to outer space. The bible does not say ANYTHING about not believing in outer space exploration or travel.

Please this just shows your ignorance of Gods love. 

Psalm 115:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Job 1:7 ESV /
The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Luke 10:18 ESV /
And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


Job 38:4   

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,


Psalm 104:5   

He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever.

Blessing awaits you !!!


Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: TomInAustin on January 16, 2020, 04:39:28 PM
I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/



I get the lies but I don't get the ties to space exploration to Satan. The path to heaven is through the blood of Christ. Not through the belief that we didn't go to outer space. The bible does not say ANYTHING about not believing in outer space exploration or travel.

Please this just shows your ignorance of Gods love. 

Psalm 115:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Job 1:7 ESV /
The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Luke 10:18 ESV /
And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


Job 38:4   

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,


Psalm 104:5   

He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever.

Blessing awaits you !!!

Anytime you quote a book of myths you automatically lose an argument.

Thanks for playing

Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 16, 2020, 11:51:29 PM
Quote
I think the truth is somewhere in-between the two stances. We've got RE'ers (and we've had them coming for literal decades) telling us that we'll get OMGWTFBBQPWNED any moment now because everyone's dog will be flying to the moon to do its business, and it'll be cheap, and it'll be accessible, and Mexico will pay for it. The response of many FE'ers is to (often aggressively) point out that it hasn't happened last time we were promised it, and that it seems to still not be happening. It does not strictly mean that it'll never happen, but it does inspire some skepticism.

In some ways, it's a case of the boy who cried "wolf": we've been promised magical space tourism so many times that we've gotten quite jaded about it.
I can understand the skepticism although projects of all kinds have deadlines that are pushed back all the time (just look at star citizen). It's disappointing for sure but one day it will happen, there have already been space tourists so in a way it's already happening. It's just getting space tourism to a point where it's cheap and safe enough for the middle/upper class people to be able to afford it. It may in our lifetimes be a once in a lifetime opportunity if it costs the price of a small house.

I too get frustrated with setbacks for space exploration. I was excited about Mars One, only for it to become defunct last year. SpaceX are doing pretty neat stuff (hell if I were the rich CEO I'd send a car in space for lawls too). I don't follow Virgin Galactic as much but it seems they are focusing on the tourism side of things more than anything.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 17, 2020, 09:11:33 AM
I think we're all frustrated with the lack of progress in this area.
I mean, who wouldn't want to go into space? Space! How cool would that be?! The moon even moreso.
But space tourism is already a thing - 7 people have paid to spend time on the ISS

https://didyouknow.org/lists/spacetourists/

The issue is it's prohibitively expensive, as will Virgin Galactic be if it ever gets off the ground both literally and figuratively.
It seems to be making it cheap which is proving difficult - it's the same reason Concorde was the only supersonic commercial plane. Yes, it's cool to zip across the Atlantic in just over 3 hours rather than 7 but are you going to pay 10 times as much for that? If you're rich enough that money is no object then maybe, 'cos you can. But it wasn't within the reach of most people.

Given how many people have been to space, the fact that the ISS is demonstrably up there - you can literally see it from the ground - and we have technologies like GPS, satellite TV and satellite phones which demonstrably work, it's a pretty big leap from "space tourism hasn't happened, or not in the way people keep promising" to seeing that as a smoking gun of the whole space industry being faked.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 17, 2020, 11:32:06 AM
But space tourism is already a thing - 7 people have paid to spend time on the ISS
Allegedly. Unfortunately, [multi-]billionaires tend not to be the most trustworthy of sources.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 17, 2020, 01:00:16 PM
Apparently £30 million was enough for a game developer to go to space so maybe exaggerating just a tad by saying  [multi-]billionaires. Also a tad unfair to make harsh assumptions of those people as being untrustworthy just for having money. Any every day loser can win the lottery and go to space it seems (assuming they're fit and healthy enough).
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 17, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
maybe exaggerating just a tad by saying  [multi-]billionaires.
It's really not, considering the specific people AATW has listed.

Also a tad unfair to make harsh assumptions of those people as being untrustworthy just for having money.
Look, I'm not saying it's strictly impossible to be a billionaire and an honest, trustworthy individual. I'm just saying that their track record doesn't make them look that trustworthy as a demographic. Once an honest billionaire graces our Flat Earth with his or her presence, I'll happily withdraw from this position. Until then, eat the rich, no war but class war, etc.

Any every day loser can win the lottery and go to space
Oh, great, so you're saying our chances of accomplishing it (if it actually is a thing) are functionally zero, to the point where any expert would advise you against trying and describe it as an "idiot tax". Thanks for nothing.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 17, 2020, 03:31:01 PM
Quote
Oh, great, so you're saying our chances of accomplishing it (if it actually is a thing) are functionally zero, to the point where any expert would advise you against trying and describe it as an "idiot tax". Thanks for nothing.
No, although the chances currently are obviously small I was just saying for now that it could happen to anyone, even you or in other words, it doesn't have to be rich untrustworthy people, hell the next space tourist could well be someone in your family. You'd have to be lucky but you could in the next few years find yourself in space. In a decade or two though, I do think that likelihood will go up when/if space travel can become cheaper and more routine.

TLDR; for now very few regular, every day people are space tourists, but in the future I believe that number will skyrocket. Pun unintended.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 17, 2020, 03:44:19 PM
it doesn't have to be rich untrustworthy people, hell the next space tourist could well be someone in your family
That's great. Hypothetically, someone might (maybe) one day do it, perhaps. Just fantastic.

Can you stop wasting our time already?
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 17, 2020, 04:00:22 PM
it doesn't have to be rich untrustworthy people, hell the next space tourist could well be someone in your family
That's great. Hypothetically, someone might (maybe) one day do it, perhaps. Just fantastic.

Can you stop wasting our time already?
That was a hypothetical example. Officially it's already happened and I can't really do anything about your lack of believe that it has, nor can I do anything about your prejudice toward people richer than you.

I'm just saying space tourism has begun but with all new things, it's a premium experience. I for one, don't own the new £50k Mac computer nor have I seen one in person but I don't doubt some rich people do have them.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 17, 2020, 05:39:48 PM
I can't really do anything about your lack of believe that it has
Then why are you still posting here? That's the subject of the thread. If you have nothing to say on it, move on.

nor can I do anything about your prejudice toward people richer than you.
No prejudice here, friend. As I said, it's perfectly possible for an honest billionaire to exist. It's just that one hasn't come to be yet (or there is no evidence of one existing or having existed - it's kind of like atheism, you see). If you mistake a simple analysis of the facts for prejudice, then perhaps you have to, once again, review your opinion of yourself as motivated purely by facts and not emotions.

I for one, don't own the new £50k Mac computer
Congratulations, you didn't get scammed (though your phrasing implies you might own some Mac computers, so maybe you did get scammed, but only a little bit). I don't see how that helps here, though. Now, if the new £50k Mac was coming out in 1980 1990 2000 2020 uhh real soon now and claimed to offer quantum computing and Blast Processing to the home user, I would be sceptical, and I wouldn't accept the claim that a university managed to add two numbers together with a prototype quantum computer as particularly relevant evidence.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 17, 2020, 06:49:05 PM
I have about as much as you do on the subject. Neither of us were there with the people who went to space to witness it in person, you don't believe it, I do. I believe it happened because it's perfectly plausible. You don't know that it did or didn't happen if you're basing your opinion completely on first hand experience, so you cannot in any way suggest they all lied about going to space, that's just based on your perceived view of them. Do you know each of them in person? Do you have any evidence that they're not being truthful? If I saw a photo or video of someone climbing a really high tree that I've never been able to climb, I'd think "damn, that was impressive, well done" not "nah didn't happen stop being dishonest". Can I get to space myself right this moment? No. But well done to those that have done it, it's an awesome life achievement in this day and age.

If a differing opinion here is annoying you then sorry, but I won't stop posting just because you think differently. I happen to think you'd be absolutely wrong to say that no honest people have yet to be who also happen to be millionaires. You're still basing this on your own opinion. Until then it's still just you pre-judging people you don't know based on some arbitrary thing that has nothing to do with personality. Rich people aren't automatically bad people, they're just people who happen to have lots of money... Were you beaten and tortured by a bunch of billionaires as a child or something? Do you also think Poor people are somehow more trustworthy? Do you personally get paid to be dishonest? What is it that's put you in such a mindset? I'm not saying anyone is 100% truthful at all times but I doubt people would lie about something this big if all it takes to uncover the lie was some random guys on a forum.

Also nah will never get a mac.. half the software I use isn't even on mac. The point was it's something basically unattainable to every day non-rich people (unless you're stupid enough to put your life savings into a mac but you know what  I mean) but it exists and the price for it will come down to next to nothing in like 20 years when it's less cutting edge and amazing. Just like how I see space travel (unless we burn ourselves off the face of the earth before then lol). You can make this comparison to anything, current 2080Ti graphics cards are stupidly priced but in 6-10 years they're going to be worth nothing. I'm using computer themed comparisons here for your sake. :P Space tourism will depreciate IMO that's just how technology is.

Anyway, if/when it becomes as affordable as a holiday I hope you'd at least be willing to try it. Going into orbit even for a day would be amazing.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: J-Man on January 18, 2020, 04:40:52 PM
I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/



I get the lies but I don't get the ties to space exploration to Satan. The path to heaven is through the blood of Christ. Not through the belief that we didn't go to outer space. The bible does not say ANYTHING about not believing in outer space exploration or travel.

Please this just shows your ignorance of Gods love. 

Psalm 115:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Job 1:7 ESV /
The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Luke 10:18 ESV /
And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


Job 38:4   

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,


Psalm 104:5   

He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever.

Blessing awaits you !!!

Anytime you quote a book of myths you automatically lose an argument.

Thanks for playing

It's clear you are of Satan. 55% of the Earths population is either Christian or Islam which believes their words of God...Flat Earth  Sure many of these are blinded, no matter the words are written many many centuries.

No, thank you for NOT PLAYING, you don't deserve a seat at my table !!!

https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/flat_earth_revisited.html

"In this article we are going to provide irrefutable evidence that the Quran teaches that the earth is flat."
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 18, 2020, 10:11:27 PM
Quote
"In this article we are going to provide irrefutable evidence that the Quran teaches that the earth is flat."

That's great, so I'll just write a book about how my god made the globe and everyone on it then I'll quote that as irrefutable evidence that the Mattible teaches that the earth is a globe. I didn't realise it was this easy to prove something!
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 20, 2020, 01:30:32 PM
But space tourism is already a thing - 7 people have paid to spend time on the ISS
Allegedly. Unfortunately, [multi-]billionaires tend not to be the most trustworthy of sources.

Right. But even if we agree that in order to be very successful in business you have to probably stretch the truth somewhat at times, what these people are claiming isn't that they've gone and lived on the moon for 6 months, or discovered the elixer of eternal youth or developed an invisibility cloak.

They're just claiming they paid to spend time on the ISS. Not an every day thing, obviously, but billionaires lives are often out of the ordinary. Most people don't have a private jet or yacht either. The ISS is literally visible from the ground, wasn't it even Jeranism who got some good video of it as it transited the moon? It's (said to be) a space station which is permanently manned, although it's not something that you or I can visit it's not beyond the realms of possibility that someone with enough money could pay to visit it.

If these are hoxes then they're very elaborate, they have been very well documented trips and has anyone called them out on the lie if it is one?
Do you have any evidence that these people haven't visited the ISS as claimed?
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 20, 2020, 01:40:57 PM
Do you have any evidence that these people haven't visited the ISS as claimed?
That's not how this works. While the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, you don't get to just shrug the burden of proof off with a "nuh-uh, you prove that God doesn't exist!" Please keep in mind that I'm not making a negative claim here - I'm asking the RE'ers to justify their claim. It would be odd for you to flip this around when I haven't taken a stance.

what these people are claiming isn't that they've gone and lived on the moon for 6 months, or discovered the elixer of eternal youth or developed an invisibility cloak.
You're trying to draw a distinction here between things that might be impossible that nobody normal has any chance of verifying and things that might be impossible that nobody normal has any chance of verifying. Hopefully my tone has already betrayed this, but just to be explicit: I don't agree that this distinction is valid, or well justified.

has anyone called them out on the lie if it is one?
Well, there are plenty of space conspiracy believers who pretty much live their entire lives dissecting ISS videos. So yes, plenty of people have called them out.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: J-Man on January 20, 2020, 11:37:35 PM
Quote
"In this article we are going to provide irrefutable evidence that the Quran teaches that the earth is flat."

That's great, so I'll just write a book about how my god made the globe and everyone on it then I'll quote that as irrefutable evidence that the Mattible teaches that the earth is a globe. I didn't realise it was this easy to prove something!

I think you would need to jump thru many more hoops but please see if you can do your evidentiary tale. You see the Bible was written by many individuals and has stood the test of 2000 years. Jesus is mentioned in non religious writings also, so the proof is positive he walked the Earth and was crucified. Gods word in the Bible cannot be changed and will always exist, that's his law, you can't change that.

The History channel explains some non religious writers describing Christ.

https://www.history.com/news/was-jesus-real-historical-evidence

"Historian Flavius Josephus wrote one of the earliest non-biblical accounts of Jesus."

"Tacitus connects Jesus to his execution by Pontius Pilate."

If the Bible claims Flat Earth and stationary, you can take that to the bank. All this hocus pocus science BS is just misdirection by the great deceiver and his minions. Satan was cast down here, he ain't leaving nor can he escape, same as you and I. Judgement day you might get a ticket to ride, till then, don't bump your head on the dome, it's like molten glass.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 21, 2020, 01:24:17 AM
Quote
Gods word in the Bible cannot be changed and will always exist, that's his law, you can't change that.
Sorry, how many versions of the bible are there? how has the bible and 'gods words' changed over time to suit modern needs? Humans have gone from barbarically nailing people to the cross for petty thievery in the name of their god to 'it's cool that you murdered, you're forgiven if you just go to confession'. The bible and gods words changed over time and will only exist as long as people like yourself believe it, which is less and less over time too. religion is slowly fizzling out.

Quote
You see the Bible was written by many individuals
Yes, I agree.

Quote
All this hocus pocus science BS is just misdirection by the great deceiver and his minions.
::) You have to be trolling. You're using a computer and the internet to reply on this forum... technology that was created with the use of hocus pocus science.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 21, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Do you have any evidence that these people haven't visited the ISS as claimed?
That's not how this works. While the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, you don't get to just shrug the burden of proof off with a "nuh-uh, you prove that God doesn't exist!" Please keep in mind that I'm not making a negative claim here - I'm asking the RE'ers to justify their claim. It would be odd for you to flip this around when I haven't taken a stance.

I'm not trying to shift the burden of proof. I don't think this is anything to do with burden of proof.
Can we just agree that I cannot prove that any of these people have been on an ISS which is orbiting the globe and you can't prove they haven't?
I could point to interviews of them talking about their experience and you could say they might be lying.
I could produce photos and video of them on the ISS and you could say it's been faked.
It's a bit lazy IMO, just vaguely asserting that anything which indicates they have indeed been on the ISS is untrue or fake, you could do that about anything anyone claims. But it's impossible to prove anything here either way.
Like a lot of things, we have to weigh up the evidence. You might have the ideal of forming views based on personal observations but we can't do that here. We weren't on the ISS with them.
And that's why I mentioned the other things they could have claimed. If they were claiming some of those then I would be raising an eyebrow because far as I understand none of those things are possible. If they claimed to have a private jet then I'd have no reason to doubt them. I know private jets exist, a billionaire would certainly have the means to buy one so I'd have no reason to think they're lying. When it comes to spending time on the ISS, I'd suggest that sits somewhere in the middle. My take is: the ISS is a thing, as I said you can see it from the ground and with a decent camera can see the basic outline of it. There's loads of photos and videos of people living and working in it. Is it possible to fake that? Well, of course. But, again, you could say that about pretty much anything. Rockets are a thing, I've seen one launch. Satellites are a thing - my GPS works, satellite phones work, my satellite TV works and I've noted when on work trips nearer the equator that their dishes point up at a steep angle - this tallies with the explanation that satellite TVs are geostationary above the equator.
So on the balance of probabilities and the evidence presented I'd say they probably did exactly what they said they did.
Only my opinion, obviously. But the difference is that them paying to be on the ISS in no way challenges my world view.
For flat earthers it does. But the response to that seems to be to just shout "fake" rather than putting much effort into investigating the claims.
Maybe because it's something which is pretty much impossible to personally witness right now.

Quote
has anyone called them out on the lie if it is one?
Well, there are plenty of space conspiracy believers who pretty much live their entire lives dissecting ISS videos. So yes, plenty of people have called them out.

Maybe I wasn't clear but I meant someone with credibility. The internet has, overall, been a good thing I think. But one issue with it is that it has democratised opinions. Everyone has always had the right to an opinion but now they are far more easily able to share that opinion with a wide audience. And the fact is that not everyone's opinion is equally valid.
A lady at church, for example, often offers unsolicited advice to parents, often about the health of their children. Unfortunately her beliefs in this area seem to mostly be based on old wives tales. So on Sunday, on noting that my boy and me both had colds, she said we should chop up an onion and put it in the corner of the room because "onion traps cold germs". You'll be unsurprised to hear that my initial suspicions that this was bollocks were confirmed by a quick Google. If she knew what she was doing she could set up a website/blog and with a fair wind could spout stuff like this to a wide audience. My point is that because of the internet you can find someone to back up pretty much any viewpoint or opinion.
So yes, I'm sure there are plenty of people scrutinising the ISS, but what are their credentials to do so? Do they have any credibility? Are they ex-NASA whistleblowers? Do they have the relevant skills in analysing images or video? Or are they just confirmation-biased fuelled conspiracy nuts?
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 21, 2020, 10:44:14 AM
If the Bible claims Flat Earth and stationary, you can take that to the bank.
It doesn't.
I mean, there are verses you could interpret that way, but most Christians don't.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 21, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
Can we just agree that I cannot prove that any of these people have been on an ISS which is orbiting the globe and you can't prove they haven't?
We can't, not for as long as you present these as philosophically equivalent. You can't prove a bombastic claim you've made. I can't prove something that's unprovable, and which you're unfairly suggesting I should prove.

It has everything to do with burden of proof. You made a claim you can't prove, and your best defence is that I can't prove you wrong.

I can see the future, but the moment I speak about it or act on it in any way, the future changes. I can't prove it, but you can't prove it's not true!

I am friends with an ethereal kangaroo that only I can see. I can't prove it, but you can't prove it's not true!

I have personally flown to space and confirmed that the Earth is flat by flapping my arms very fast. I couldn't take photos because I was flapping my arms very fast. I survived the trip, although I'm not sure how. Can't prove it, you can't prove me wrong.

It's one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" types of reasoning, you see. ;)

Maybe I wasn't clear but I meant someone with credibility. [...] what are their credentials to do so? Do they have any credibility?
If "credentials" are your way of assessing someone's credibility, be prepared to get scammed multiple times in your life.

Are they ex-NASA whistleblowers?
At least one of them is, and hasn't died in an unfortunate accident just yet. Then again, after a prolonged disappearance he came back with seemingly worsened mental health. Crazy how that happens.

Do they have the relevant skills in analysing images or video?
In my assessment, yes, many of them do. Mind you, that doesn't make them right. That's why "credentials" are a shit determinant.

Or are they just confirmation-biased fuelled conspiracy nuts?
It must be so blissful to be able to dismiss people you don't like with a bunch of insults, and to just carry on with your life without thinking about it.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: J-Man on January 21, 2020, 10:46:56 AM
Chris the hocus pocus is in reference to all the nonsense that we can leave the Flat immovable Earth. Gods words haven't changed, in fact Gods Holy Spirit enters a true believer to give them clarity and understanding. Over 2000 years ago God told us the gates are very narrow so its not surprising few believers exist today.

Yes sins are forgiven by God but only for true believers. God knows his flock and the wolves.

The world was burning at the stake just 200 yrs ago and today we publicly behead criminals, I don't get your point?
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: J-Man on January 21, 2020, 11:05:32 AM
If the Bible claims Flat Earth and stationary, you can take that to the bank.
It doesn't.
I mean, there are verses you could interpret that way, but most Christians don't.

Obviously I don't agree with you and I can guarantee you that narrow gates doesn't mean 25% of the worlds population (Christians) is going to Heaven.

Now let me ask you a question. If you were God and your most respected angel rebelled against you and united 1/3 of your angel to also rebel against you, would you allow them to flourish in your midst with the remaining 2/3rd of devoted angels?

This is the war that rages today and the outcome is already written. That's the power of GOD. Once you honestly answer this question the Bible becomes clear that Satan and his minions are trapped here. The few True Christians overcome Satans lies and are given eternal life with God in Heaven.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: inquisitive on January 21, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
Can we just agree that I cannot prove that any of these people have been on an ISS which is orbiting the globe and you can't prove they haven't?
We can't, not for as long as you present these as philosophically equivalent. You can't prove a bombastic claim you've made. I can't prove something that's unprovable, and which you're unfairly suggesting I should prove.

It has everything to do with burden of proof. You made a claim you can't prove, and your best defence is that I can't prove you wrong.

I can see the future, but the moment I speak about it or act on it in any way, the future changes. I can't prove it, but you can't prove it's not true!

I am friends with an ethereal kangaroo that only I can see. I can't prove it, but you can't prove it's not true!

I have personally flown to space and confirmed that the Earth is flat by flapping my arms very fast. I couldn't take photos because I was flapping my arms very fast. I survived the trip, although I'm not sure how. Can't prove it, you can't prove me wrong.

It's one of those "heads I win, tails you lose" types of reasoning, you see. ;)

Maybe I wasn't clear but I meant someone with credibility. [...] what are their credentials to do so? Do they have any credibility?
If "credentials" are your way of assessing someone's credibility, be prepared to get scammed multiple times in your life.

Are they ex-NASA whistleblowers?
At least one of them is, and hasn't died in an unfortunate accident just yet. Then again, after a prolonged disappearance he came back with seemingly worsened mental health. Crazy how that happens.

Do they have the relevant skills in analysing images or video?
In my assessment, yes, many of them do. Mind you, that doesn't make them right. That's why "credentials" are a shit determinant.

Or are they just confirmation-biased fuelled conspiracy nuts?
It must be so blissful to be able to dismiss people you don't like with a bunch of insults, and to just carry on with your life without thinking about it.
There is no reason to doubt the existence of the ISS, there is enough information from reputable sources.  Similarly clearly satellites exist and either orbit the earth like GPNSS ones or stay in the same position relative to us to give us satellite TV.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 21, 2020, 03:13:44 PM
We can't, not for as long as you present these as philosophically equivalent. You can't prove a bombastic claim you've made. I can't prove something that's unprovable, and which you're unfairly suggesting I should prove.
It has everything to do with burden of proof. You made a claim you can't prove, and your best defence is that I can't prove you wrong.

I am suggesting that all claims are unproveable, in the strictest sense.
There's a reason why in law you only have to prove something beyond reasonable doubt.

I'm trying to prove you murdered Tom.
I have a 10 witnesses who say they clearly saw you do it - maybe they are all mistaken/lying.
Your fingerprints are all over the murder weapon - maybe you handled the weapon previously but it wasn't you who murdered Tom.
You have his blood all over your clothes - maybe you arrived on the scene later and it got there then.
You confessed - maybe you were coerced or are lying for some reason.
And so on.
I as the prosecution can present whatever evidence I like, your defence can always cast some doubt on it. It's up to the jury to decide whether the doubt is reasonable and so a conviction would be unsafe.

I'm not suggesting you should prove anything. I'm explicitly saying you can't. And I can't.

I don't have a claim at all, the space tourists do. The issue here is whether we believe their claim.
I have explained why I do. I believe space travel is a thing. I believe the ISS is a thing. Their journeys are well documented and they certainly have the means to pay the prices being claimed.
I've also explained why I wouldn't believe them if they made other more outlandish claims like that they'd flown to space and confirmed that the Earth is a globe by flapping their arms. Because although I know rockets are a thing, I also know people can't fly by flapping their arms. We suspend disbelief when we watch magic shows but we know David Copperfield can't really fly - it's the fact he's flying that makes it an entertaining trick, if people could fly then it wouldn't be that impressive.

We all have a model of reality in our heads and we use that as a basis for what claims we think are credible. For claims we think outlandish we require a higher level of evidence. If I claimed that I went to see "1917" at the cinema last night then you'd probably have no reason to doubt me - you know that cinemas are a thing, you know that it's a film that is out right now. If I claimed that I went into 10 Downing Street last year then you might doubt me - you know it's where the Prime Minister of the UK lives, you can't even get in the road these days and the house is not open to the public.
[For the record, I didn't see 1917 last night but I did go to Number 10 last year, I have a friend who works there - people can lie about mundane stuff too]

I'm not suggesting you prove anything, I'm just asking if you've looked into these claims in any detail and have evidence that the photos/video of these people's trips has been faked. The reason you might want to do that is that every satellite launch and every trip to the ISS is an opportunity for you to examine your beliefs about a flat earth. And these people aren't NASA employees, I think they all went up on Russian rockets.

Quote
If "credentials" are your way of assessing someone's credibility, be prepared to get scammed multiple times in your life.

Not "credentials", but credentials. I saw a funny post on FB about misused quotation marks:
The "dentist" will see you now. Doesn't really inspire confidence!
But yes, credentials absolutely form part of my perception of someone's credibility. The lady at church who thinks that chopped onions trap cold germs is not, amazingly, a medical doctor. If she was then I might take her claim a bit more seriously.
I'm not saying it's the only criterion, but it surely has to be one of them.

Quote
It must be so blissful to be able to dismiss people you don't like with a bunch of insults, and to just carry on with your life without thinking about it.
People I don't like? I don't know any of these people from Adam, I have no opinion about whether I "like" them or not.
But the videos I have seen of people "debunking" the ISS - Tom has posted some on here - are not by people who seem to be experts in the field of image or video analysis. Maybe there are better ones out there but the ones I've seen have been vague assertions like "Aha! Look! He's grabbing at a wire" when the reality is you can't really clearly see that. I don't know what you mean by "bunch of insults". I'm just saying they don't seem - to me - to have the relevant skills to be credible.

It seems to me that when it comes to space travel and technologies which use satellites the FE attitude is to dismiss it as fake or claim it works in some other way without any real basis and to just carry on with their lives without thinking about it.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: TomInAustin on January 21, 2020, 06:08:03 PM
Quote
"In this article we are going to provide irrefutable evidence that the Quran teaches that the earth is flat."

That's great, so I'll just write a book about how my god made the globe and everyone on it then I'll quote that as irrefutable evidence that the Mattible teaches that the earth is a globe. I didn't realise it was this easy to prove something!

I think you would need to jump thru many more hoops but please see if you can do your evidentiary tale. You see the Bible was written by many individuals and has stood the test of 2000 years. Jesus is mentioned in non religious writings also, so the proof is positive he walked the Earth and was crucified. Gods word in the Bible cannot be changed and will always exist, that's his law, you can't change that.

The History channel explains some non religious writers describing Christ.

https://www.history.com/news/was-jesus-real-historical-evidence

"Historian Flavius Josephus wrote one of the earliest non-biblical accounts of Jesus."

"Tacitus connects Jesus to his execution by Pontius Pilate."

If the Bible claims Flat Earth and stationary, you can take that to the bank. All this hocus pocus science BS is just misdirection by the great deceiver and his minions. Satan was cast down here, he ain't leaving nor can he escape, same as you and I. Judgement day you might get a ticket to ride, till then, don't bump your head on the dome, it's like molten glass.

It's a pretty big leap to go from someone lived to he was the son of god!   
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: J-Man on January 21, 2020, 08:18:34 PM
Jesus was in fact GOD. He was crucified for Blasphemy by the Jewish elders. He claimed to be Yahweh, Jehovah, I AM, Messiah, King of the Jews.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 22, 2020, 09:24:12 AM
I am suggesting that all claims are unproveable, in the strictest sense.
We've had this discussion before (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9495.msg150864#msg150864). I really don't see the benefit in repeating myself, and I greatly dislike your strategy of recycling arguments after they've failed, so I'll keep this brief. The physical world that surrounds us is not a UK court of law, or the Ace-Attorney-style pastiche that you propose. Your "plenty of evidence of murder is not proof, and nothing can ever be proven" argument is cute, but completely worthless and inapplicable here.

You are making a claim about the physical world (specifically that something has occurred and continues to occur and not that a specific person committed an act in the past) with no evidence, and you're acting as if me not actively proving the opposite of every spurious claim you make is equivalent. It isn't.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 22, 2020, 09:36:39 AM
I am suggesting that all claims are unproveable, in the strictest sense.
We've had this discussion before (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9495.msg150864#msg150864). I really don't see the benefit in repeating myself, and I greatly dislike your strategy of recycling arguments after they've failed, so I'll keep this brief. The physical world that surrounds us is not a UK court of law, or the Ace-Attorney-style pastiche that you propose. Your "plenty of evidence of murder is not proof, and nothing can ever be proven" argument is cute, but completely worthless and inapplicable here.

You are making a claim about the physical world (specifically that something has occurred and not that a specific person committed an act) with no evidence, and you're acting as if me not actively proving the opposite of every spurious claim you make is equivalent. It isn't.
what kind of evidence are you looking for that you’d be claiming there is none? There’s video footage, live streams, radio transmissions, eye witness accounts, interviews and even phone calls with people on the iss, and you can notably see that the iss exists. I wouldn’t call it a stretch to suggest it’s perfectly possible it isn’t a huge conspiracy/cover up. It seems far more elaborate that and outlandish that it would be all faked somehow and a few regular rich people are getting in on the conspiracy by claiming they went there. If I were NASA and random people came to me asking to be put on the iss for lots of money I wouldn’t run the risk of letting them in on the secret just to boost their egos, especially if they’re as untrustworthy as your claims.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 22, 2020, 10:31:22 AM
what kind of evidence are you looking for that you’d be claiming there is none?
If I had the evidence to support your claims, I wouldn't be asking for it. It's your job to find it, or to rescind unsubstantiated (and likely unfalsifiable) claims.

There’s video footage, live streams, radio transmissions, eye witness accounts, interviews and even phone calls with people on the iss, and you can notably see that the iss exists.
There's video footage of the 10 individuals AATW named taking private trips to space? That would be ineresting to see. Other than that, "the nice billionaire told me he totally did this thing" is not very good evidence.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 22, 2020, 03:34:36 PM
You are making a claim about the physical world (specifically that something has occurred and continues to occur
Sorry if I'm being obtuse, I genuinely don't know what claim you think I'm making.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 22, 2020, 03:52:43 PM
Sorry if I'm being obtuse, I genuinely don't know what claim you think I'm making.
I'm discussing your claim that these specific rich people went to space as tourists (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=15732.msg203250#msg203250)
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: TomInAustin on January 22, 2020, 04:40:06 PM
I had my hopes up to see the NASA fake videos and astronuts lying about their round trip BS. But alas, Mars mysteriously lost all water so I guess we'll just have to go to Pluto now ! Stay tuned for more billions flushed on Satanic lies.

"Vanishing water MYSTERY casts doubt over Mars colonization plans"

https://www.rt.com/news/477927-water-vanishing-from-mars-mystery/



I get the lies but I don't get the ties to space exploration to Satan. The path to heaven is through the blood of Christ. Not through the belief that we didn't go to outer space. The bible does not say ANYTHING about not believing in outer space exploration or travel.

Please this just shows your ignorance of Gods love. 

Psalm 115:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Job 1:7 ESV /
The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Luke 10:18 ESV /
And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


Job 38:4   

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding,


Psalm 104:5   

He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever.

Blessing awaits you !!!

Anytime you quote a book of myths you automatically lose an argument.

Thanks for playing

It's clear you are of Satan. 55% of the Earths population is either Christian or Islam which believes their words of God...Flat Earth  Sure many of these are blinded, no matter the words are written many many centuries.

No, thank you for NOT PLAYING, you don't deserve a seat at my table !!!

https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/flat_earth_revisited.html

"In this article we are going to provide irrefutable evidence that the Quran teaches that the earth is flat."

So you are adding a second book of myths to the first one?  What's next Harry Potter quotes?

And it cracks me up to hear that I don't deserve a seat at your table.   Like all the other hypocrites that sprew bible nonsense, you wear it like a badge and lord it over other people.  Not very christ-like.  If Christ was real and came back you would be the last one he would pick.  Evil in the name of religion, good one.
Title: Re: Sorry were not going to Mars now....Really?
Post by: ChrisTP on January 22, 2020, 06:38:57 PM
Quote
There's video footage of the 10 individuals AATW named taking private trips to space? That would be ineresting to see. Other than that, "the nice billionaire told me he totally did this thing" is not very good evidence.
You know what I mean. All this evidence despite the few people who paid to get up there means it's not exactly an outlandish claim (or well it is in the sense it's out of this land but you know..). I was saying all this evidence in addition to the individuals who paid to go up there.

I'd say it's far more plausible that some well off peeps threw enough money to get onto the ISS than say, everything being a huge lie with hundreds of thousands of people in on it fooling billions of people apart from the small corner of the internet where these super intelligent beings reside who've managed to figure out what all the other thousands of certified geniuses didn't. I actually think it's more likely we live in the matrix than the ISS being faked all this time. I mean I get that you need the ISS to be fake in order for the earth to be a big disk but there's a point even you have to get to where you see the probability being next to 0% that humans haven't gone to space. This whole conspiracy would have collapsed by now if there's this many people involved. A successful conspiracy is one with few people actually in the know.