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Offline Toddler Thork

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Nephew's Computer
« on: November 27, 2019, 09:13:00 PM »
So he's 12 ... he's been asking his dad for a 'gaming PC' ... he wants to join the master race.

His Dad (my brother in law) asked me if I'd build a computer with him. My sister and her husband are going to shake down all the relatives for parts. RAM from an auntie, CPU from grandma etc.

Anyhoo we're building this on xmas day


Ryzen 2600X
Radeon 5700
16Gb 3200 DDR4
480Gb nvme
3Tb 7200 HDD
B450 motherboard m-ATX
Case with unicorn puke fans
650W PSU Bronze+
keyboard/mouse/headset/mousemat
windows 10 home
144hz 1440p freesync 32" monitor (curved)

So a reasonable system. Sure, we're not made of money and the little prick likely won't get me anything so compromises have been made. But looking for a 1440p gaming experience. I don't play games that seriously but I'm guessing a 12 year old should like this. If not, I'll just disown him. Not sure I like him much anyhow.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 09:31:43 PM by Baby Thork »
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Offline la xasop

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2019, 09:51:03 PM »
Radeon 5700

You may want to be a little more specific, unless you're seriously planning on buying him a 10-year-old graphics card.
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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2019, 09:56:55 PM »
Radeon 5700

You may want to be a little more specific, unless you're seriously planning on buying him a 10-year-old graphics card.

More specific to whom? Who would not understand that I mean https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5700 ?



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Offline la xasop

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2019, 10:07:48 PM »
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2019, 10:15:53 PM »
I am aware that there was an HD 5700 back in the day. I'm asking who would assume I meant the 10 year old GPU to play 1440p gaming on and that I would pair such a thing with all the other components listed?


If your biggest criticism is my omission of the 'RX' in the GPU description, there can't be a lot wrong with the rest of it.

I thought I was going to have to justify the 2600X instead of a 2600 (there's only £4 in it right now) or the 3600 (which is £60 more and I don't think you'll see any difference at 1440p as you'll be GPU bound, not CPU bound).

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2019, 05:31:16 AM »
Looks fine to me.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2019, 06:00:51 AM »
What would a 12 year old use 3TB of storage for?

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Offline la xasop

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2019, 08:26:07 AM »
What would a 12 year old use 3TB of storage for?

Moreover, what's the point of having both an SSD and an HDD with an OS so crippled it can't even use the SSD as a simple cache? At least give him Linux.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2019, 10:03:49 AM »
This sounds reasonable and should provide a good/acceptable experience for many years.

I would consider a Windows 10 Pro licence over Home. Home keeps getting worse and worse over time, with Microsoft just deciding that it'll take more control of your device now. Their reasoning for it is good, but it doesn't sit right with more technical people. Then again, none of that will immediately matter to a 12yo

Make sure you decorate the case with something FE related to properly indoctrinate the sucker.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 10:16:58 AM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2019, 11:33:58 AM »
What would a 12 year old use 3TB of storage for?
Well being as games like cod take 125Gb of space these days and I don't see that as a trend that's going to go away ... in fact only get worse, if I'm building a games PC that will likely last him until he gets to university, I'm thinking he's going to need a fair chunk of space. This will be the computer he grew up with. Its not like when I was a kid and you needed a new PC every 18 months because Moore's law was steaming along nicely.

Moreover, what's the point of having both an SSD and an HDD with an OS so crippled it can't even use the SSD as a simple cache? At least give him Linux.
1) Its a gaming computer. You'd have to be deranged to give a 12 year old a Linux gaming computer. Gaming ... windows ... job done.
2) Its his first proper computer. I don't want him staring at a command line all confused and angry.
3) He can install junk operating systems himself if he wants. I'm not going to force Linux on him. Stop being a fascist.
4) Whats the point of having an nvme drive? Or are you asking why I don't just put in a 4tb nvme? Both these questions are stupid.

This sounds reasonable and should provide a good/acceptable experience for many years.

I would consider a Windows 10 Pro licence over Home. Home keeps getting worse and worse over time, with Microsoft just deciding that it'll take more control of your device now. Their reasoning for it is good, but it doesn't sit right with more technical people. Then again, none of that will immediately matter to a 12yo

Make sure you decorate the case with something FE related to properly indoctrinate the sucker.
Yeah, he's 12 and can barely use a computer. I think home will be fine. He can always upgrade as he gets older if computers become a thing he likes. Right now he thinks he's going to be a "microbiologist" when he grows up. If that morphs into computer scientist because he falls in love with his computer ... I can always invest more in future birthdays and xmas'.
I'm thinking ... Ok you want a gaming PC. But you're going to end up doing all your homework on it, watching naked ladies on it as you get a bit older, you'll watch all your TV on it, talk to your friends on it via online games and skype like services, make new friends the other side of the world on it, store all your music on it as you begin acquiring a musical taste ...

I think computers will mean a very different thing to this generation than they did to me 25 years ago. This computer will be the one ... his boyhood computer. I couldn't do that with my 48k spectrum. It was a piece of crap 3 years after launch and I was already jealous of my friends amiga 500. There was no internet ... nobody had an IBM compatible computer when I was a kid. They weren't a thing in people's homes yet. Not for kids, anyhow.
And before I knew it, nintendo was a thing ... and that's where you played games without waiting 7 minutes for the tape to load.

Maybe I'm getting it all wrong and I deserve  ::) OK boomer. But I just think a computer will leave a much bigger mark on a kid today than it did on us way back when.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2019, 01:40:14 PM »
Maybe I'm getting it all wrong and I deserve  ::) OK boomer. But I just think a computer will leave a much bigger mark on a kid today than it did on us way back when.
No, I think you're spot on. This was already true of many millennials, and things have only moved forward from there on.
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Offline la xasop

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2019, 07:13:04 PM »
1) Its a gaming computer. You'd have to be deranged to give a 12 year old a Linux gaming computer. Gaming ... windows ... job done.

Steam has very good Linux support these days, especially with Proton.

2) Its his first proper computer. I don't want him staring at a command line all confused and angry.

Did you last use Linux in 1995?

3) He can install junk operating systems himself if he wants. I'm not going to force Linux on him. Stop being a fascist.

hot take

4) Whats the point of having an nvme drive? Or are you asking why I don't just put in a 4tb nvme? Both these questions are stupid.

I'm asking why you don't install an OS that can make full use of the hardware. Linux can use the SSD as a cache so that your most frequently used games automatically go onto the SSD, no manual file management needed. With Windows he will be constantly copying games between the SSD and the HDD as he gets bored with some games and starts installing others.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2019, 07:23:59 PM »
Ok, I have a question.

Why would you want Linux to just shuffle around your program locations automatically?  Yes, I know the file system is all one big linked thing but surely you don't want to find out that your ssd got full because your OS thought you wanted your favorite game on your ssd instead of your hdd?

And how does it manage such a cache?  What makes it decide to move program X to your ssd vs keeping it where you put it?

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2019, 07:32:34 PM »
>mfw Thork just wants to build a PC for a kid, but FES is being FES

Guys, literally none of this matters for the stated use case. At least he's not getting him a Mac.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2019, 08:47:11 PM »
>mfw Thork just wants to build a PC for a kid, but FES is being FES

Guys, literally none of this matters for the stated use case. At least he's not getting him a Mac.

Yeah but since the purpose of the thread is accomplished, we're gon a hijack it.  Isn't that what we should do, to save the forum from over pollution of threads?

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Offline la xasop

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2019, 09:20:07 PM »
Why would you want Linux to just shuffle around your program locations automatically?  Yes, I know the file system is all one big linked thing but surely you don't want to find out that your ssd got full because your OS thought you wanted your favorite game on your ssd instead of your hdd?

And how does it manage such a cache?  What makes it decide to move program X to your ssd vs keeping it where you put it?

The answer to both of these is the same.

It's a block-level cache. It doesn't decide where to put files or games, it decides where to put blocks, the small bits of data that make up files. If it puts a block into the cache, it evicts an old block that hasn't been used in a while. The cache can't "get full".

From the user's point of view, the SSD and HDD appear together as one filesystem, with the size of the HDD. The SSD just caches things from the HDD that get used often. It can't override where you "put" something because you can't choose which physical device to put it on. You put it on the virtual device and let the OS handle the rest.

Welcome to logical volume management, the great innovation of the '00s.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 09:22:01 PM by Parsifal »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2019, 09:55:18 PM »
Why would you want Linux to just shuffle around your program locations automatically?  Yes, I know the file system is all one big linked thing but surely you don't want to find out that your ssd got full because your OS thought you wanted your favorite game on your ssd instead of your hdd?

And how does it manage such a cache?  What makes it decide to move program X to your ssd vs keeping it where you put it?

The answer to both of these is the same.

It's a block-level cache. It doesn't decide where to put files or games, it decides where to put blocks, the small bits of data that make up files. If it puts a block into the cache, it evicts an old block that hasn't been used in a while. The cache can't "get full".

From the user's point of view, the SSD and HDD appear together as one filesystem, with the size of the HDD. The SSD just caches things from the HDD that get used often. It can't override where you "put" something because you can't choose which physical device to put it on. You put it on the virtual device and let the OS handle the rest.

Welcome to logical volume management, the great innovation of the '00s.

So you lose storage space(size of the HDD, not HDD + SSD) to gain a fast autocache?  Meh, doesn't seem worth it to me.

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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2019, 11:00:11 PM »
Why would you want Linux to just shuffle around your program locations automatically?  Yes, I know the file system is all one big linked thing but surely you don't want to find out that your ssd got full because your OS thought you wanted your favorite game on your ssd instead of your hdd?

And how does it manage such a cache?  What makes it decide to move program X to your ssd vs keeping it where you put it?

The answer to both of these is the same.

It's a block-level cache. It doesn't decide where to put files or games, it decides where to put blocks, the small bits of data that make up files. If it puts a block into the cache, it evicts an old block that hasn't been used in a while. The cache can't "get full".

From the user's point of view, the SSD and HDD appear together as one filesystem, with the size of the HDD. The SSD just caches things from the HDD that get used often. It can't override where you "put" something because you can't choose which physical device to put it on. You put it on the virtual device and let the OS handle the rest.

Welcome to logical volume management, the great innovation of the '00s.

This is an AMD machine. B450 motherboard. I'm putting a fairly large nvme into the machine. I'm using Windows 10.
https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/store-mi

???

« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 11:09:24 PM by Baby Thork »
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Offline la xasop

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2019, 11:12:49 PM »
So you lose storage space(size of the HDD, not HDD + SSD) to gain a fast autocache?  Meh, doesn't seem worth it to me.

Are you telling me you would fill up a 3 TB HDD and need that extra half a TB?

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/store-mi

I admit I didn't know about this. Good to see AMD doing Microsoft's job of developing basic OS functionality for them.
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Offline Toddler Thork

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Re: Nephew's Computer
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2019, 12:59:13 AM »
I admit I didn't know about this. Good to see AMD doing Microsoft's job of developing basic OS functionality for them.
Yeah, AMD has tiered storage nailed down. Another reason to pick Ryzen at the moment.
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