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Other Discussion Boards => Technology & Information => Topic started by: Toddler Thork on November 27, 2019, 09:13:00 PM

Title: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 27, 2019, 09:13:00 PM
So he's 12 ... he's been asking his dad for a 'gaming PC' ... he wants to join the master race.

His Dad (my brother in law) asked me if I'd build a computer with him. My sister and her husband are going to shake down all the relatives for parts. RAM from an auntie, CPU from grandma etc.

Anyhoo we're building this on xmas day


Ryzen 2600X
Radeon 5700
16Gb 3200 DDR4
480Gb nvme
3Tb 7200 HDD
B450 motherboard m-ATX
Case with unicorn puke fans
650W PSU Bronze+
keyboard/mouse/headset/mousemat
windows 10 home
144hz 1440p freesync 32" monitor (curved)

So a reasonable system. Sure, we're not made of money and the little prick likely won't get me anything so compromises have been made. But looking for a 1440p gaming experience. I don't play games that seriously but I'm guessing a 12 year old should like this. If not, I'll just disown him. Not sure I like him much anyhow.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 27, 2019, 09:51:03 PM
Radeon 5700

You may want to be a little more specific, unless you're seriously planning on buying him a 10-year-old graphics card.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 27, 2019, 09:56:55 PM
Radeon 5700

You may want to be a little more specific, unless you're seriously planning on buying him a 10-year-old graphics card.

More specific to whom? Who would not understand that I mean https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5700 ?



Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 27, 2019, 10:07:48 PM
More specific to whom? Who would not understand that I mean https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-5700 ?

Someone older than 12 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_HD_5000_series#Radeon_HD_5700).
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 27, 2019, 10:15:53 PM
I am aware that there was an HD 5700 back in the day. I'm asking who would assume I meant the 10 year old GPU to play 1440p gaming on and that I would pair such a thing with all the other components listed?


If your biggest criticism is my omission of the 'RX' in the GPU description, there can't be a lot wrong with the rest of it.

I thought I was going to have to justify the 2600X instead of a 2600 (there's only £4 in it right now) or the 3600 (which is £60 more and I don't think you'll see any difference at 1440p as you'll be GPU bound, not CPU bound).

Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Lord Dave on November 28, 2019, 05:31:16 AM
Looks fine to me.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Fortuna on November 28, 2019, 06:00:51 AM
What would a 12 year old use 3TB of storage for?
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 28, 2019, 08:26:07 AM
What would a 12 year old use 3TB of storage for?

Moreover, what's the point of having both an SSD and an HDD with an OS so crippled it can't even use the SSD as a simple cache? At least give him Linux.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 28, 2019, 10:03:49 AM
This sounds reasonable and should provide a good/acceptable experience for many years.

I would consider a Windows 10 Pro licence over Home. Home keeps getting worse and worse over time, with Microsoft just deciding that it'll take more control of your device now. Their reasoning for it is good, but it doesn't sit right with more technical people. Then again, none of that will immediately matter to a 12yo

Make sure you decorate the case with something FE related to properly indoctrinate the sucker.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 28, 2019, 11:33:58 AM
What would a 12 year old use 3TB of storage for?
Well being as games like cod take 125Gb of space these days and I don't see that as a trend that's going to go away ... in fact only get worse, if I'm building a games PC that will likely last him until he gets to university, I'm thinking he's going to need a fair chunk of space. This will be the computer he grew up with. Its not like when I was a kid and you needed a new PC every 18 months because Moore's law was steaming along nicely.

Moreover, what's the point of having both an SSD and an HDD with an OS so crippled it can't even use the SSD as a simple cache? At least give him Linux.
1) Its a gaming computer. You'd have to be deranged to give a 12 year old a Linux gaming computer. Gaming ... windows ... job done.
2) Its his first proper computer. I don't want him staring at a command line all confused and angry.
3) He can install junk operating systems himself if he wants. I'm not going to force Linux on him. Stop being a fascist.
4) Whats the point of having an nvme drive? Or are you asking why I don't just put in a 4tb nvme? Both these questions are stupid.

This sounds reasonable and should provide a good/acceptable experience for many years.

I would consider a Windows 10 Pro licence over Home. Home keeps getting worse and worse over time, with Microsoft just deciding that it'll take more control of your device now. Their reasoning for it is good, but it doesn't sit right with more technical people. Then again, none of that will immediately matter to a 12yo

Make sure you decorate the case with something FE related to properly indoctrinate the sucker.
Yeah, he's 12 and can barely use a computer. I think home will be fine. He can always upgrade as he gets older if computers become a thing he likes. Right now he thinks he's going to be a "microbiologist" when he grows up. If that morphs into computer scientist because he falls in love with his computer ... I can always invest more in future birthdays and xmas'.
I'm thinking ... Ok you want a gaming PC. But you're going to end up doing all your homework on it, watching naked ladies on it as you get a bit older, you'll watch all your TV on it, talk to your friends on it via online games and skype like services, make new friends the other side of the world on it, store all your music on it as you begin acquiring a musical taste ...

I think computers will mean a very different thing to this generation than they did to me 25 years ago. This computer will be the one ... his boyhood computer. I couldn't do that with my 48k spectrum. It was a piece of crap 3 years after launch and I was already jealous of my friends amiga 500. There was no internet ... nobody had an IBM compatible computer when I was a kid. They weren't a thing in people's homes yet. Not for kids, anyhow.
And before I knew it, nintendo was a thing ... and that's where you played games without waiting 7 minutes for the tape to load.

Maybe I'm getting it all wrong and I deserve  ::) OK boomer. But I just think a computer will leave a much bigger mark on a kid today than it did on us way back when.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 28, 2019, 01:40:14 PM
Maybe I'm getting it all wrong and I deserve  ::) OK boomer. But I just think a computer will leave a much bigger mark on a kid today than it did on us way back when.
No, I think you're spot on. This was already true of many millennials, and things have only moved forward from there on.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 28, 2019, 07:13:04 PM
1) Its a gaming computer. You'd have to be deranged to give a 12 year old a Linux gaming computer. Gaming ... windows ... job done.

Steam has very good Linux support these days, especially with Proton.

2) Its his first proper computer. I don't want him staring at a command line all confused and angry.

Did you last use Linux in 1995?

3) He can install junk operating systems himself if he wants. I'm not going to force Linux on him. Stop being a fascist.

hot take

4) Whats the point of having an nvme drive? Or are you asking why I don't just put in a 4tb nvme? Both these questions are stupid.

I'm asking why you don't install an OS that can make full use of the hardware. Linux can use the SSD as a cache so that your most frequently used games automatically go onto the SSD, no manual file management needed. With Windows he will be constantly copying games between the SSD and the HDD as he gets bored with some games and starts installing others.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Lord Dave on November 28, 2019, 07:23:59 PM
Ok, I have a question.

Why would you want Linux to just shuffle around your program locations automatically?  Yes, I know the file system is all one big linked thing but surely you don't want to find out that your ssd got full because your OS thought you wanted your favorite game on your ssd instead of your hdd?

And how does it manage such a cache?  What makes it decide to move program X to your ssd vs keeping it where you put it?
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 28, 2019, 07:32:34 PM
>mfw Thork just wants to build a PC for a kid, but FES is being FES

Guys, literally none of this matters for the stated use case. At least he's not getting him a Mac.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Lord Dave on November 28, 2019, 08:47:11 PM
>mfw Thork just wants to build a PC for a kid, but FES is being FES

Guys, literally none of this matters for the stated use case. At least he's not getting him a Mac.

Yeah but since the purpose of the thread is accomplished, we're gon a hijack it.  Isn't that what we should do, to save the forum from over pollution of threads?
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 28, 2019, 09:20:07 PM
Why would you want Linux to just shuffle around your program locations automatically?  Yes, I know the file system is all one big linked thing but surely you don't want to find out that your ssd got full because your OS thought you wanted your favorite game on your ssd instead of your hdd?

And how does it manage such a cache?  What makes it decide to move program X to your ssd vs keeping it where you put it?

The answer to both of these is the same.

It's a block-level cache. It doesn't decide where to put files or games, it decides where to put blocks, the small bits of data that make up files. If it puts a block into the cache, it evicts an old block that hasn't been used in a while. The cache can't "get full".

From the user's point of view, the SSD and HDD appear together as one filesystem, with the size of the HDD. The SSD just caches things from the HDD that get used often. It can't override where you "put" something because you can't choose which physical device to put it on. You put it on the virtual device and let the OS handle the rest.

Welcome to logical volume management, the great innovation of the '00s.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Lord Dave on November 28, 2019, 09:55:18 PM
Why would you want Linux to just shuffle around your program locations automatically?  Yes, I know the file system is all one big linked thing but surely you don't want to find out that your ssd got full because your OS thought you wanted your favorite game on your ssd instead of your hdd?

And how does it manage such a cache?  What makes it decide to move program X to your ssd vs keeping it where you put it?

The answer to both of these is the same.

It's a block-level cache. It doesn't decide where to put files or games, it decides where to put blocks, the small bits of data that make up files. If it puts a block into the cache, it evicts an old block that hasn't been used in a while. The cache can't "get full".

From the user's point of view, the SSD and HDD appear together as one filesystem, with the size of the HDD. The SSD just caches things from the HDD that get used often. It can't override where you "put" something because you can't choose which physical device to put it on. You put it on the virtual device and let the OS handle the rest.

Welcome to logical volume management, the great innovation of the '00s.

So you lose storage space(size of the HDD, not HDD + SSD) to gain a fast autocache?  Meh, doesn't seem worth it to me.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 28, 2019, 11:00:11 PM
Why would you want Linux to just shuffle around your program locations automatically?  Yes, I know the file system is all one big linked thing but surely you don't want to find out that your ssd got full because your OS thought you wanted your favorite game on your ssd instead of your hdd?

And how does it manage such a cache?  What makes it decide to move program X to your ssd vs keeping it where you put it?

The answer to both of these is the same.

It's a block-level cache. It doesn't decide where to put files or games, it decides where to put blocks, the small bits of data that make up files. If it puts a block into the cache, it evicts an old block that hasn't been used in a while. The cache can't "get full".

From the user's point of view, the SSD and HDD appear together as one filesystem, with the size of the HDD. The SSD just caches things from the HDD that get used often. It can't override where you "put" something because you can't choose which physical device to put it on. You put it on the virtual device and let the OS handle the rest.

Welcome to logical volume management, the great innovation of the '00s.

This is an AMD machine. B450 motherboard. I'm putting a fairly large nvme into the machine. I'm using Windows 10.
https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/store-mi

???

https://youtu.be/ipAkjMr-COM
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 28, 2019, 11:12:49 PM
So you lose storage space(size of the HDD, not HDD + SSD) to gain a fast autocache?  Meh, doesn't seem worth it to me.

Are you telling me you would fill up a 3 TB HDD and need that extra half a TB?

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/store-mi

I admit I didn't know about this. Good to see AMD doing Microsoft's job of developing basic OS functionality for them.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 29, 2019, 12:59:13 AM
I admit I didn't know about this. Good to see AMD doing Microsoft's job of developing basic OS functionality for them.
Yeah, AMD has tiered storage nailed down. Another reason to pick Ryzen at the moment.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Lord Dave on November 29, 2019, 05:16:59 AM
So you lose storage space(size of the HDD, not HDD + SSD) to gain a fast autocache?  Meh, doesn't seem worth it to me.

Are you telling me you would fill up a 3 TB HDD and need that extra half a TB?
Not would, have.
I've used up over 3TB of data on my computer.  Trimmed a bunch to make space but ... Yeah.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 29, 2019, 12:01:52 PM
Yeah, AMD has tiered storage nailed down. Another reason to pick Ryzen at the moment.

Only when buying from a lazy OS vendor that sits back and lets hardware vendors do their work for them. It doesn't matter who you buy your CPU from when your OS is implemented by your OS vendor.

I've used up over 3TB of data on my computer.  Trimmed a bunch to make space but ... Yeah.

So have I. My point is that when using this amount of data, an extra 500 GB SSD is unlikely to make much difference long-term because you likely also have high growth. In other words, you need a bigger HDD anyway.

If you have a use case for storing an amount of data between 3 TB and 3.5 TB that can't be reduced to under 3 TB and will never grow above 3.5 TB, I'd love to hear it.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 29, 2019, 12:58:44 PM
I admit I didn't know about this. Good to see AMD doing Microsoft's job of developing basic OS functionality for them.
Plenty of third parties have solutions for this. Your preference for the "OS vendor" (oftentimes a loosely organised group of enthusiasts) being responsible for all the things is just that - a preference with no functional difference. A loosely organised collective of megacorps is doing the exact same thing, except they don't slap a singular badge on it.

My point is that when using this amount of data, an extra 500 GB SSD is unlikely to make much difference long-term because you likely also have high growth. In other words, you need a bigger HDD anyway.
This is debatable. My experience with home users is that they're dealing with a slow creep of data. It can be easily reduced, but it's a faff. Delaying the inevitable purge is beneficial.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 29, 2019, 05:34:47 PM
So I just ordered everything.

Got some RGB puke fans in a case. Its not my taste, but I'm not 12.
(https://www.overclockers.co.uk/media/image/thumbnail/CA03JKK_202150_750x750.jpg)

And just bought the monitor. That's the thing I'm giving him. My wallet is crying in the corner of my room.
(https://www.overclockers.co.uk/media/image/thumbnail/MO002HS_197306_750x750.jpg)

Its all very gamery. Also has RGB keyboard and mouse. Personally, I think its disgusting.

Should I need a kidney in the future, his plump young organs should now be easier to pry away from him, for his poor old uncle Thork. He owes me one.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Lord Dave on November 29, 2019, 06:04:34 PM
Ddaaaammmmnnnnn.....
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: ChrisTP on November 29, 2019, 07:51:05 PM
I bet the monitor specs will be lost on a 12 year old tbh but it's a nice monitor. I'd have gone for something half the price and got two for dual monitors. but I guess that's less for gaming at that point (apart from supreme commander and stuff). You're doing a good thing anyway, hate to sound like an old person but kids these days just dont have computers, my niece just sits on the coach like a blob of jelly staring at her ipad watching youtube videos and shes only 8, but her mum only encourages it but not trying to get her into technology in a better, healthier way. It makes me sad.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 29, 2019, 08:15:11 PM
I bet the monitor specs will be lost on a 12 year old tbh but it's a nice monitor.
Totally ... but I'm guessing he's still going to have that monitor when he's 16. Then he can thank me all over again.

I'd have gone for something half the price and got two for dual monitors.
He likes FPS shooters. Dual displays is dreadful ... your cross-hair is right on the bezel where the two monitors meet. Its unplayable. Its triple screens or go home for gaming.

but I guess that's less for gaming at that point (apart from supreme commander and stuff). You're doing a good thing anyway, hate to sound like an old person but kids these days just dont have computers, my niece just sits on the coach like a blob of jelly staring at her ipad watching youtube videos and shes only 8, but her mum only encourages it but not trying to get her into technology in a better, healthier way. It makes me sad.
When his dad was moaning to me that he keeps wanting a gaming PC ... a little bit of pride welled up inside of me. I was like ... this is happening. I'll get the monitor, tap up his granny (my mother) for a processor, here's the specs list, no we aren't scrimping on anything, no pre-builts; he's gonna build it himself on xmas day ... lol.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 29, 2019, 08:32:58 PM
Plenty of third parties have solutions for this. Your preference for the "OS vendor" (oftentimes a loosely organised group of enthusiasts) being responsible for all the things is just that - a preference with no functional difference. A loosely organised collective of megacorps is doing the exact same thing, except they don't slap a singular badge on it.

There is a very clear functional difference, and that is whether the implementation works with all supported hardware or a subset of it. AMD's implementation of this requires that you use AMD hardware. Linux's implementation works on any hardware, even non-x86.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 29, 2019, 08:37:12 PM
Plenty of third parties have solutions for this. Your preference for the "OS vendor" (oftentimes a loosely organised group of enthusiasts) being responsible for all the things is just that - a preference with no functional difference. A loosely organised collective of megacorps is doing the exact same thing, except they don't slap a singular badge on it.

There is a very clear functional difference, and that is whether the implementation works with all supported hardware or a subset of it. AMD's implementation of this requires that you use AMD hardware. Linux's implementation works on any hardware, even non-x86.
AMD's version can work on any hardware ... but you need to buy a license to do that. But they'll give you a free license if you use their platform. Seems fair.


And if it wasn't obvious I did the buying today because it was black Friday. I shaved about £60 off what it all cost yesterday. £5 here, £3 there. It adds up.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 30, 2019, 12:47:15 AM
There is a very clear functional difference, and that is whether the implementation works with all supported hardware or a subset of it. AMD's implementation of this requires that you use AMD hardware. Linux's implementation works on any hardware, even non-x86.
The software that automatically installs with Windows, and which comes pre-installed at OEM stage works with your machine. If you choose to do something else, you do so at your own behest, and it is assumed that you know what you're doing. There is no functional difference.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 30, 2019, 02:01:46 AM
The software that automatically installs with Windows, and which comes pre-installed at OEM stage works with your machine. If you choose to do something else, you do so at your own behest, and it is assumed that you know what you're doing. There is no functional difference.

Adding [b] doesn't make you any more correct.

Installing software on your computer comes after you've chosen your hardware, which is the step at which you decide what storage you want and how you're going to manage it. You're correct in that if you choose your hardware carefully with Windows, you get the behaviour you want. That is also my point.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 30, 2019, 09:29:34 AM
Adding [b] doesn't make you any more correct.
I will assume that you know what emphasis is, and that you're just trying to waste my time in the absence of arguments that aren't dumb. You'd think the big brain computer boy could either argue on merit or accept that he simply forgot to look shit up in advance of starting an argument, without having to resort to distractions.

You're correct in that if you choose your hardware carefully with Windows, you get the behaviour you want. That is also my point.
And I'm explaining to you, repeatedly, that your point does not apply to reality. You will not find modern hardware that can run Windows, meets the requirements for SSD caching in general (inb4 wHaT iF yOu dOn'T hAvE aN sSd!!!), and which won't support SSD caching in Windows out of the box.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 30, 2019, 10:58:10 AM
And I'm explaining to you, repeatedly, that your point does not apply to reality. You will not find modern hardware that can run Windows, meets the requirements for SSD caching in general (inb4 wHaT iF yOu dOn'T hAvE aN sSd!!!), and which won't support SSD caching in Windows out of the box.

This definitely was not the case when I looked into it not very long ago, otherwise I would be using it on the gaming laptop I bought in 2017, which has both an SSD and an HDD. I'm willing to accept that things have changed since then (I don't use Windows very much so I don't follow its development closely), but then it seems like AMD providing this functionality for their hardware is pointless.

(Strictly speaking, Intel Rapid Storage Technology was available in 2017, but was (and perhaps still is) limited to using 64 GB of the SSD as a cache. I don't consider that at all useful for a gaming PC given that there are now individual games larger than 64 GB on the market.)
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Lord Dave on November 30, 2019, 11:00:20 AM
And I'm explaining to you, repeatedly, that your point does not apply to reality. You will not find modern hardware that can run Windows, meets the requirements for SSD caching in general (inb4 wHaT iF yOu dOn'T hAvE aN sSd!!!), and which won't support SSD caching in Windows out of the box.

This definitely was not the case when I looked into it not very long ago, otherwise I would be using it on the gaming laptop I bought in 2017, which has both an SSD and an HDD. I'm willing to accept that things have changed since then (I don't use Windows very much so I don't follow its development closely), but then it seems like AMD providing this functionality for their hardware is pointless.

https://www.wepc.com/tips/ssd-cache/

Not every intel but several.  Maybe even yours, parsifal.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on November 30, 2019, 11:05:08 AM
https://www.wepc.com/tips/ssd-cache/

Not every intel but several.  Maybe even yours, parsifal.

I just pre-emptively responded to this with an edit in my last post:

(Strictly speaking, Intel Rapid Storage Technology was available in 2017, but was (and perhaps still is) limited to using 64 GB of the SSD as a cache. I don't consider that at all useful for a gaming PC given that there are now individual games larger than 64 GB on the market.)
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on November 30, 2019, 11:29:57 PM
Are you Th*rking kidding me?  >o<

I just bought all the parts for a kick ass computer on 'Black Friday' and felt pleased with the £60 or so that I saved. And now I learn about Cyber Monday!  >o< >o< >o<

(https://forum.tfes.org/Smileys/default/angryyell.png)
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Rama Set on November 30, 2019, 11:58:06 PM
Are you Th*rking kidding me?  >o<

I just bought all the parts for a kick ass computer on 'Black Friday' and felt pleased with the £60 or so that I saved. And now I learn about Cyber Monday!  >o< >o< >o<

(https://forum.tfes.org/Smileys/default/angryyell.png)

Ok, Boomer.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Fortuna on December 01, 2019, 02:38:40 AM
a kick ass computer

(https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.ZoIg1-qb5gp7tbJKOP8uUAEsDh&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300)
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 01, 2019, 10:35:13 AM
a kick ass computer

(https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.ZoIg1-qb5gp7tbJKOP8uUAEsDh&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300)

Its all relative. Unless your computer is better than the one below, your computer is sh*t.  ::)
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/8pack-orionx2-dual-system-extreme-overclocked-pc-intel-core-i9-7980xe-and-intel-core-i7-9700k-fs-006-8p.html
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 02, 2019, 12:33:26 AM
Balls. I need a wifi adapter for him. And a USB flash drive 8GB or more to make a windows bootdrive. >:(


These little expenses start to add up.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Crudblud on December 02, 2019, 08:07:55 AM
Balls. I need a wifi adapter for him.

Ethernet cable is cheaper and far more reliable than a wifi adapter. It's slightly more effort to set up, at least it is if the router's in a different part of the house, but I think he'll appreciate it if he's going to be playing a lot of online games, which thanks to cloud bullshit most games are now.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on December 02, 2019, 10:46:26 AM
Ethernet cable is cheaper and far more reliable than a wifi adapter.

Did you last use Wi-Fi in 2006?
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 02, 2019, 11:05:44 AM
Did you last use Wi-Fi in 2006?
His comment still holds. In fact, it holds today more so than it did in 2006. Your options are 2.4GHz bands, which are almost universally congested; and 5GHz which hates walls and doors - those things that houses have. I'm using Wi-Fi as a temporary solution for my new place - it's fantastic at reducing my 1Gbps link to a much tastier 66Mbps at the far end of the house. And my case is relatively good compared to people whose networks I was asked to "fix" in the past.

A good CAT5e/CAT6 run trumps all. Your edgy tech takes are shite.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on December 02, 2019, 11:16:43 AM
His comment still holds. In fact, it holds today more so than it did in 2006. Your options are 2.4GHz bands, which are almost universally congested; and 5GHz which hates walls and doors - those things that houses have.

Theoretically, sure. My direct experience is that this rarely matters for reliability.

It can add latency, which is a valid reason to prefer a wired network, but I've almost never had problems with Wi-Fi reliability in the past couple of years that weren't caused by bugs in my Wi-Fi driver. I've more often had my uplink be unreliable than my Wi-Fi connection.

A good CAT5e/CAT6 run trumps all

That depends heavily on a lot of factors. Since this is a desktop, mobility is likely a non-issue here, but there's still the question of whether this is a rented property (in which case running cables inside the walls is likely a non-starter) and how far from the router the kid's room is (running a cable the length of the house for one PC is probably not worth the hassle).

In an ideal world, every house would have an RJ45 port or two wired up with every electrical socket. In reality, a Wi-Fi repeater is often just as reliable as a wired connection (or at the very least, more reliable than the ISP it connects you to) and far simpler and more flexible to set up and maintain.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 02, 2019, 11:25:26 AM
He doesn't have an ethernet outlet in his room. His parents aren't going to want to live with a cable running along the floor in the hallway to his room. He just needs a wifi dongle. This isn't hard.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 02, 2019, 11:30:47 AM
Theoretically, sure. My direct experience is that this rarely matters for reliability.

It can add latency, which is a valid reason to prefer a wired network, but I've almost never had problems with Wi-Fi reliability in the past couple of years that weren't caused by bugs in my Wi-Fi driver. I've more often had my uplink be unreliable than my Wi-Fi connection.
Reliability is a difficult thing to define. Sure, a Wi-Fi connection that's been established will probably not sporadically drop, and your mileage will probably be fairly consistent. But the moment you enter the realm of video games (which often transmit large bursts of data, requiring both good throughput and latency), or high-resolution video streaming, you're starting to push the boundaries of what Wi-Fi can do in a residential setting.

in which case running cables inside the walls is likely a non-starter
I agree that running cables inside the wall would be ideal, and that it's a massive hassle, especially in rented accommodation. However, as a routine tenancy agreement violator, I can say with some confidence that landlords don't have the time to argue with you over a little bit of adhesive trunking attached to the walls, so long as you don't make it look like utter arse.

In an ideal world, every house would have an RJ45 port or two wired up with every electrical socket. In reality, a Wi-Fi repeater is often just as reliable as a wired connection (or at the very least, more reliable than the ISP it connects you to) and far simpler and more flexible to set up and maintain.
I've never found a Wi-Fi repeater that didn't suck, but I gave up on them early on. Or perhaps I was luckier with ISPs than you were. Wi-Fi repeaters don't make sense to me from a physics standpoint - you add congestion to an already noisy frequency, and now your device has to rely on *two* shitty radio connections. You've made the two biggest problems of Wi-Fi worse. I'd much rather go with powerline networking. It offers you a chance of not ruining your bandwidth, generally provides good latency, and if mobility is a factor you can use them as a basis of a Wi-Fi access point.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Fortuna on December 03, 2019, 02:18:17 AM
My latency and down/up speeds are mostly the same on wireless and wired connections. This is 2019. WiFi is pretty damn reliable.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: ChrisTP on December 03, 2019, 04:53:34 PM
My latency and down/up speeds are mostly the same on wireless and wired connections. This is 2019. WiFi is pretty damn reliable.
My wifi has about a 20th the speed of using an Ethernet cable in my small apartment. I literally cannot play multiplayer games over wifi without getting a high ping. :( cables4lyf. I put it down the router just being bad but I've never really had much luck with others.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 03, 2019, 05:43:43 PM
Some of the parts have arrived. I want them.

I have 8GB of RAM. There's 16GB sat downstairs.
I could remove my RX580 and swap with the 5700. Would he even notice?
My Ryzen 1400 would pop right out and could go in the 2600X box.

Little shit bag.  >:(
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on December 03, 2019, 06:12:25 PM
I'm so glad Thork isn't my uncle.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 03, 2019, 06:40:05 PM
I'm so glad Thork isn't my uncle.

I'm not the uncle he has to worry about. My brother, 'Uncle Bad Touch', is far more frightening.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: la xasop on December 03, 2019, 08:24:58 PM
I'm so glad Thork isn't my uncle.

I'm not the uncle he has to worry about. My brother, 'Big Mike', is far more frightening.

As I'm sure you know from experience.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 04, 2019, 10:50:55 AM
My brother, 'Uncle Bad Touch', is far more frightening.
At last, a glimpse into Big Mike's origin story!
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 05, 2019, 01:06:03 PM
So the processor arrived.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xTCTjV5R/catfood.jpg)

Seriously Amazon? Felix cat food will not run on a B450 motherboard.

Now I'm nervous ... the replacement, which could equally be swapped for more cat food by a thieving immigrant warehouse worker, is due on 17th December. If that too is stolen and replaced with a makeweight product, I'm not going to have all the parts for xmas day. Everything else has arrived already.

I got this cat food from Amazon EU S.a.r.L. so its not a third party to blame here.

Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 05, 2019, 01:07:45 PM
You should still gift the cat food to your nephew.

Good luck with the replacement.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 05, 2019, 01:09:53 PM
You should still gift the cat food to your nephew.

Good luck with the replacement.

We don't even own a cat.  >:(
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: ChrisTP on December 05, 2019, 01:24:09 PM
What better time to gift your nephew a cat?
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 05, 2019, 01:25:13 PM
He doesn't want a cat. He wants a computer. Did you read the OP properly?
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 05, 2019, 01:25:27 PM
What better time to gift your nephew a cat?
No! Not even as a joke. So many pets get gifted to/by people who do not understand the level of commitment involved. Animals are friends, not things :(
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 05, 2019, 01:26:35 PM
Animals are food, not things :(

FTFY
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 05, 2019, 01:53:34 PM
My muffed up order might be part of a wider problem ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7759081/Amazon-apologises-Black-Friday-shoppers-ordered-Nintendo-Switch-sent-random-items.html and https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/amazon-apple-watch-plunger
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: junker on December 05, 2019, 04:18:27 PM
Make sure to buy him scam shitizen, use my referral code.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Fortuna on December 05, 2019, 06:03:46 PM
Make sure to buy him scam shitizen, use my referral code.

Junker isn’t a true Scammed Shitizen. Don’t use his referral code.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 06, 2019, 10:18:00 AM
My muffed up order might be part of a wider problem ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7759081/Amazon-apologises-Black-Friday-shoppers-ordered-Nintendo-Switch-sent-random-items.html and https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/amazon-apple-watch-plunger
It's OK, they aPoLoGiSed

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/amazon-apologises-sending-shopper-toothbrush-21032050

I'm glad I wasn't affected. I bought 2 Nintendo Switches on Black Friday and they both arrived fine.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 11, 2019, 11:39:30 PM
The cat food has been returned and a real processor turned up in its place today. I now have all the parts listed in the OP.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: ChrisTP on December 12, 2019, 10:27:31 AM
My muffed up order might be part of a wider problem ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7759081/Amazon-apologises-Black-Friday-shoppers-ordered-Nintendo-Switch-sent-random-items.html and https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/amazon-apple-watch-plunger
It's OK, they aPoLoGiSed

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/amazon-apologises-sending-shopper-toothbrush-21032050

I'm glad I wasn't affected. I bought 2 Nintendo Switches on Black Friday and they both arrived fine.
Two so that you can Switch between them?
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 12, 2019, 10:28:44 AM
Two so that you can Switch between them?
One was a gift, and one was because my SO and I are terrible at sharing.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 12, 2019, 03:38:18 PM
Two so that you can Switch between them?
One was a gift, and one was because my SO and I are terrible at sharing.
Your significant other? So you bought one for each hand then.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 13, 2019, 08:01:39 AM
Your significant other? So you bought one for each hand then.
No.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: honk on December 17, 2019, 01:25:02 AM
Significant other, he said. Singular. Pete is faithful to one hand.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Crudblud on December 17, 2019, 06:38:55 AM
I have a crush on Pete's other hand tbh.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 17, 2019, 07:50:42 AM
>mfw people rave over a masturbation joke where there's a perfectly good "Thork can't count to 2" joke set up right for them

Philistines.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 17, 2019, 10:07:38 AM
>mfw people rave over a masturbation joke where there's a perfectly good "Thork can't count to 2" joke set up right for them

Philistines.
I'm just funnier than you.  :-*
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Crudblud on December 17, 2019, 12:28:24 PM
>mfw people rave over a masturbation joke where there's a perfectly good "Thork can't count to 2" joke set up right for them

Philistines.
In my defence I have a head-crusher of a cold rn.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Toddler Thork on December 26, 2019, 10:01:23 PM
So the computer was built. It makes a steady 110fps at 1440p in Borderlands 3.

Cable management was pretty neat.

It turned out a very nice gaming PC indeed. My nephew is really happy with it.

Zero hitches. Just wired it up, hit the pwr button and it posted first time.
Title: Re: Nephew's Computer
Post by: Fortuna on December 27, 2019, 08:35:16 AM
A fine adventure indeed.